Apple CEO Tim Cook: iPhone X Has Been the Top Selling iPhone Every Week Since it Shipped

[johngordon]

I think you misunderstand. The iPhone X can be both.

It is a high-end smartphone for wealthy people. And there just happens to be a lot of wealthy people who only want the best. And the iPhone X is the best.

This is no different than all of the BMWs and Mercedes Benz you see on the road, you might think they are commonplace. It just means that the wealthy gravitate to those two brands. In some communities, there are more Mercedes and BMWs on the road then Hondas and Kia’s because you are in a wealthy community but it doesn’t matter; Hyundai and Kia people can’t afford the BMWs and the Mercedes.

It’s a result of concentration of wealth. iPhone X is commonplace in business class on United Airlines but an exclusive rarity in coach on Spirit Air.

I do understand, I just disagree with you.

I take your point, but I’m just not sure that every man and his dog own other luxury products in anywhere near the same numbers as people own iPhones.

What proportion of people own an IPhone?

What proportion of people own a Rolex?

 

[0388631]

Those are old wives tales from the 1980s.

Wealthy people are wealthy in part because they do not invest any of their money in a depreciating asset. Leasing allows a known, fixed monthly expense with $0 towards repair or maintenence and allows that capital to be invested and earn instead of being given to an automotive financing company.

You're still paying for a depreciating asset which you do not own. There's nothing smart about it. A typical mid range lease at $450 a month, including tax and downpayment, unless the dealer eats the cost of the taxes and registration, you're looking at about a $20,000 expenditure over three years, excluding brakes and tires. 1 and 2 year leases are more expensive. Secondary lease term renewals also increase the price. Even with Tier 1 credit, at a certain point is becomes abysmally stupid to lease something. High end luxury depreciates hard and you'll be paying upwards of $2,000 a month for 36-42 months in addition to a $10-12,000 down payment. Congratulations, you've paid for more than 3/4 of the vehicle's worth and you give it back.

I can't speak for others, but as someone who's well off, I don't care about spending $90,000 on a car and having it depreciate. It isn't a Ferrari or Lamborghini. It won't ever appreciate and modern exotics rarely appreciate. What you posted are rattled details you'd read in some investment book sold to the masses.

The only time a lease would make sense is when:

1. The vehicle marque or model are unreliable. See FCA for examples.
2. The vehicle will have a high residual. It's cheaper then to lease the vehicle. Leasing something like an Accord, Civic, Camry, IS, ES, et al, except an LS will be smart. All full size and to a point, mid-size luxury vehicles will drop like a rock in value.

Personally, if you want to lease, that's fine. I don't want to. I don't mind spending the money on an expensive car and paying it off in a year or two. It depreciates, but I don't want to be held to dealer terms. I also drive more than a lease allows each year. I'd pay through the nose for it. Why pay an extra $2,000-3,000 because I drove more than I was allowed to?

I also buy the extended warranty. The one on my car ran out a short while ago. I'll probably buy extended warranties for the next two cars we buy. 48 months standard. You can add 3 years, so 7 years or 100K miles. Whichever comes first.

I've paid less than $2,000 in maintenance over the time I had the car. Trade in value is around 24K, down from 96K. But I thoroughly enjoyed the car.


Lease, buy, or buy a glider. Do whatever you think is right for you. Leasing makes zero sense to me unless I'm looking at a cheap Japanese import or a FCA product. I've been buying and selling my cars for over 30 years. I've only leased a few times. The last being a Mazdaspeed6 during the Ford days as a fun weekend car.


Edit: And honestly, when it comes to the Germans, you're not going to get anything new if you stick to the same model since model runs are anywhere from 5-8 years. You might score a refreshed model. If you stick with the same brand or switch to another one, chances are high you'll end up with a mid-cycle model and it's the same thing with some minor updates from the original release vehicle.

Aside from the previous two SOLID reasons why you'd want to lease, if you like to brand hop a lot, it makes sense. It's still a waste of money on cars that hit rock bottom at lightening pace, but it's your money. I'm a Mercedes person for the most part. Don't see the point in jumping marques.

 

[john123]

Without any hint of irony?

Unfortunately. Some guy even started a thread on the topic. The euphemism used by some is "gives it character."

And indirectly, that's what all these "it's a status symbol" people are saying too, as Apple is not the first to do a bezel-less display.

 

[johngordon]

Unfortunately. Some guy even started a thread on the topic. The euphemism used by some is "gives it character."

And indirectly, that's what all these "it's a status symbol" people are saying too, as Apple is not the first to do a bezel-less display.

Then he’s probably an idiot, or just winding people up.

Fortunately: I think people like that are rare, and in the minority.

Unfortunately: I think because of people like that, too many other people make assumptions and generalisations and think there are more people like that than there probably are.

 

[0388631]

Winding, hopefully. Character is something I'd describe like a patina that's developed on intricate metalwork. Not a device that'll last six or seven years before dying off. Then again, everyone knows hieveryone so it might be serious.

 

[boltjames]

But putting the iPhone X in front of people’s faces, in the belief that people will notice the notch, and somehow be impressed? Not so much.

Depends on the audience. I've been in a low-end neighborhood with my son's 15 year old BMW and had people fawn all over it. It's about context. By your posture, I'm guessing that you're well off and live in a nice place. Never forget that 75% of the world doesn't. We are all very fortunate to afford Apple products.

 

[ipponrg]

Depends on the audience. I've been in a low-end neighborhood with my son's 15 year old BMW and had people fawn all over it. It's about context. By your posture, I'm guessing that you're well off and live in a nice place. Never forget that 75% of the world doesn't. We are all very fortunate to afford Apple products.

I see your point to a certain extent. I think nice is very subjective. In LA/NYC, you could live in the bummiest neighborhoods but still have a 2nd hand iPhone. Some people just allocate their money to different priorities.

I don't disagree that Apple products are "luxury" status considering they hired Burberry's former CEO a while back. However, I disagree that Apple is targeting "wealthy people". If that were the case, they would price these products much higher. We are talking Rolex/Givency prices.

If anything, their target demographic really is the middle class because that's where the great concentration of ROI is going to be. Price wise vs other phone competitors, a couple hundred dollars is not as much of a difference as when you compare a BMW 3-series to a Honda Accord.

 

[boltjames]

I see your point to a certain extent. I think nice is very subjective. In LA/NYC, you could live in the bummiest neighborhoods but still have a 2nd hand iPhone. Some people just allocate their money to different priorities.

I don't disagree that Apple products are "luxury" status considering they hired Burberry's former CEO a while back. However, I disagree that Apple is targeting "wealthy people". If that were the case, they would price these products much higher. We are talking Rolex/Givency prices.

If anything, their target demographic really is the middle class because that's where the great concentration of ROI is going to be. Price wise vs other phone competitors, a couple hundred dollars is not as much of a difference as when you compare a BMW 3-series to a Honda Accord.

Good post. It's hard to characterize the iPhone X or Apple as a brand to one thing.

On the one hand, it's "only $1000" which is cheap compared to a house, but on the other hand we've got hundreds of people in this forum since the keynote screaming "I'll never pay $1000 for a smartphone, it's an outrage!" And then you've got all the people with iPhone 6's that cost them $99 on a subsidized contract with sticker shock over any iPhone, even the SE at $349. Then you have my cleaning girl who bought an iPhone 5 for $50 on Craigslist.

And adding to the myriad of users, you also have a subset of people who don't look "like everyone else" in any walks of their lives and who are looking for a best-in-class smartphone from the best maker that is different than the pedestrian masses. And that takes us to the iPhone X and it's high price and it's telltale notch. It's the Rolex crown of the smartphone world, or that bright white "THE NORTH FACE" logo found on the front and back of each of their jackets.

 

[I7guy]

Good post. It's hard to characterize the iPhone X or Apple as a brand to one thing.

On the one hand, it's "only $1000" which is cheap compared to a house, but on the other hand we've got hundreds of people in this forum since the keynote screaming "I'll never pay $1000 for a smartphone, it's an outrage!" And then you've got all the people with iPhone 6's that cost them $99 on a subsidized contract with sticker shock over any iPhone, even the SE at $349. Then you have my cleaning girl who bought an iPhone 5 for $50 on Craigslist.

And adding to the myriad of users, you also have a subset of people who don't look "like everyone else" in any walks of their lives and who are looking for a best-in-class smartphone from the best maker that is different than the pedestrian masses. And that takes us to the iPhone X and it's high price and it's telltale notch. It's the Rolex crown of the smartphone world, or that bright white "THE NORTH FACE" logo found on the front and back of each of their jackets.

Verizon Wireless sells Samsung phones from the j3 eclipse at $168 to the Note 8 at $960. Note 8 is iphone x territory. Samsung is going after the same target market as Apple. Other Android manufactures would love to sell their phones for $1,000, but I'm not sure how many people would buy an Oppo or Huawei for $1,000.
[doublepost=1517769498][/doublepost]

Unfortunately. Some guy even started a thread on the topic. The euphemism used by some is "gives it character."

And indirectly, that's what all these "it's a status symbol" people are saying too, as Apple is not the first to do a bezel-less display.

The iphone X is instantly recognizable by the notch, which imo, is what apple was going for. No matter, love it or hate it, it gives away an iphone X instantly.

That Apple wasn't the first to do a bezel-less display, the trend started in 2014 with Sharp and evolved from there. Whether someone things the iphone x is a status symbol, doesn't affect me in the least.

 

[johngordon]

Depends on the audience. I've been in a low-end neighborhood with my son's 15 year old BMW and had people fawn all over it. It's about context. By your posture, I'm guessing that you're well off and live in a nice place. Never forget that 75% of the world doesn't. We are all very fortunate to afford Apple products.

Not really - my wife and I are both self employed and maybe earn around $50k a year between us. Which May wouldn’t say makes us particularly wealthy. We couldn’t afford a fancy car like a BMW, but we can stretch to an iPhone.

That’s my point - enough people have iPhones for them not to be that luxury a commodity. Certainly not compared to a lot of others.
[doublepost=1517771019][/doublepost]

Verizon Wireless sells Samsung phones from the j3 eclipse at $168 to the Note 8 at $960. Note 8 is iphone x territory. Samsung is going after the same target market as Apple. Other Android manufactures would love to sell their phones for $1,000, but I'm not sure how many people would buy an Oppo or Huawei for $1,000.
[doublepost=1517769498][/doublepost]
The iphone X is instantly recognizable by the notch, which imo, is what apple was going for. No matter, love it or hate it, it gives away an iphone X instantly.

That Apple wasn't the first to do a bezel-less display, the trend started in 2014 with Sharp and evolved from there. Whether someone things the iphone x is a status symbol, doesn't affect me in the least.

I really can’t believe they would have had the notch if they didn’t have to, just for it to stand out from the crowd like that.

If that was the case, why hasn’t the iPhone had a notch just for aesthetics for years?

 

[I7guy]

I really can’t believe they would have had the notch if they didn’t have to, just for it to stand out from the crowd like that.

If that was the case, why hasn’t the iPhone had a notch just for aesthetics for years?

I did say apple was going for a look, but the "notch" is a compromise between a more compact phone and a larger phone with the electronics outside of the screen area. Given the electronics had to be put somewhere, apple chose to go for a look and make the phone more compact by putting the electronics in the viewer area.

Bigger phone or notch? That can be debated on and on.

 

[boltjames]

Not really - my wife and I are both self employed and maybe earn around $50k a year between us. Which May wouldn’t say makes us particularly wealthy. We couldn’t afford a fancy car like a BMW, but we can stretch to an iPhone.

That’s my point - enough people have iPhones for them not to be that luxury a commodity. Certainly not compared to a lot of others.

There are over a billion iPhone's out there so, yes, as a single entity grouped together they're not rare or precious.

But new iPhone's, different story. And the X, very different story.

I really can’t believe they would have had the notch if they didn’t have to, just for it to stand out from the crowd like that.

If that was the case, why hasn’t the iPhone had a notch just for aesthetics for years?

Now that we are in the phase where smartphone sales will start to slow and prices are creeping up it necessitates differentiation in the line. Apple has a low end line (SE) a midrange offering (7's) and high-end (8's and X's). With so many competitors and so many competing phones in the same Apple brand, a major design cue like the Notch makes sense.

So no Notch needed in prior years as the iPhone was always one 'thing'. Now that's its 2 or 3 things, need some breathing room between them to make them easier to recognize.

 

[koruki]

They don't break down sales to individual models, "but trust us... X topped the charts EVERY week (gleaming ping from Tim's tooth)!". Yeah frickin' right.

If only non-Apple companies could get away w/ such blatant secrecy, partial lies & spin. This company's arrogance & contempt for its users is sickening, to me.

lol do you come to MACrumors every hour to get sick then?

 

[boltjames]

I did say apple was going for a look, but the "notch" is a compromise between a more compact phone and a larger phone with the electronics outside of the screen area. Given the electronics had to be put somewhere, apple chose to go for a look and make the phone more compact by putting the electronics in the viewer area.

Bigger phone or notch? That can be debated on and on.

Part of the purpose of the notch is to mirror the edge to edge display in the curves on the bottom. It would look awkward to have the corner curves at the bottom filled with content and the corner curves at the top to be black/empty/squared off.

 

[groove-agent]

I was referring to Apple's tendency to use colourful adjectives and redirection to paint a favourable picture of themselves and their products. Did Tim talk about how they had to reduce production of the phones because of low demand?* No. He focussed on customer satisfaction which was "off the charts" and "incredibly well received" without of course, no statistical or objective info to back up these statements. Apple is the master of painting a rosy picture of themselves which is why they can keep their stocks looking good despite a lack of updates, a slow down of innovation, hardware flaws (MBP keyboard), and big programming mistakes.

As a matter of fact I was in the Apple store today and I asked an employee if there were plans to fix the keyboard issues with the new MBPs (hoping they had a plan in place and I could consider buying one). He looked at me shyly and said "I've never heard of any keyboard problems, but we do give you a year warranty in case there are any issues" (deny there are any issues, and redirect your focus towards the fact that you're "protected" with warranty). My wife and I could totally tell he was covering up that he knew damn well there were keyboard issues, but likely was told to deny them. I understand why from a corporate point of view why they would do this, but after we left I felt it was a little shady to outright lie about it in order to sell product. This seems to be the type of company we're dealing with now.

So the only thing I'm "thinking" is you've completely missed the point I was making.

* http://www.newsweek.com/apple-about-cancel-iphone-x-poor-sales-mean-device-faces-end-life-786430

Please explain what possible relevance your "thinking" could have to Apple's reported financial results, which are reviewed by its independent auditor and filed with the SEC? I mean, if it "just seems" to you like he's "icing" the truth, should the federal government start an investigation? Take enforcement action? I'm really interested in how your "thinking" works here.

 

[johngordon]

I did say apple was going for a look, but the "notch" is a compromise between a more compact phone and a larger phone with the electronics outside of the screen area. Given the electronics had to be put somewhere, apple chose to go for a look and make the phone more compact by putting the electronics in the viewer area.

Bigger phone or notch? That can be debated on and on.

Sure - I think that decision was based on how to have the phone with the smallest footprint rather than how to have a quirky attention grabbing feature (that a lot of people were likely not to like).

 

[I7guy]

I was referring to Apple's tendency to use colourful adjectives and redirection to paint a favourable picture of themselves and their products. Did Tim talk about how they had to reduce production of the phones because of low demand?* No. He focussed on customer satisfaction which was "off the charts" and "incredibly well received" without of course, no statistical or objective info to back up these statements. Apple is the master of painting a rosy picture of themselves which is why they can keep their stocks looking good despite a lack of updates, a slow down of innovation, hardware flaws (MBP keyboard), and big programming mistakes.

As a matter of fact I was in the Apple store today and I asked an employee if there were plans to fix the keyboard issues with the new MBPs (hoping they had a plan in place and I could consider buying one). He looked at me shyly and said "I've never heard of any keyboard problems, but we do give you a year warranty in case there are any issues" (deny there are any issues, and redirect your focus towards the fact that you're "protected" with warranty). My wife and I could totally tell he was covering up that he knew damn well there were keyboard issues, but likely was told to deny them. I understand why from a corporate point of view why they would do this, but after we left I felt it was a little shady to outright lie about it in order to sell product. This seems to be the type of company we're dealing with now.

So the only thing I'm "thinking" is you've completely missed the point I was making.

* http://www.newsweek.com/apple-about-cancel-iphone-x-poor-sales-mean-device-faces-end-life-786430

I noticed you “asked” if Tim talked about production cuts? Did Steve? Did Tim hide anything with their next quarters guidance?

 

[Baymowe335]

Those are old wives tales from the 1980s.

Wealthy people are wealthy in part because they do not invest any of their money in a depreciating asset. Leasing allows a known, fixed monthly expense with $0 towards repair or maintenence and allows that capital to be invested and earn instead of being given to an automotive financing company.

Leasing is the most expensive way to drive a car.

Buying a reliable car you can afford and driving it for a long period of time is the cheapest way to drive a car.

When you lease a car, you're paying for the maintenance and brand new car in the form of a lease payment. You're renting the car and will do so in perpetuity, ultimately costing a lot more money.

Wealthy people would understand leasing cars is actually a luxury for rich people because it's not economical. Poor people tend to lease cars, because they can't afford to drive the same car if they bought it.

 

[trellus]

I was one of the skeptics about FaceID, but a few outlier cases notwithstanding, and which do not particularly concern me, I think the fact that we don't hear a lot of significant ruckus over FaceID failures or bugs is good enough evidence for me to feel comfortable moving to a FaceID device eventually, although I am happy with my 8 Plus and TouchID and I don't particularly feel the need to "upgrade" to a FaceID-enabled iPhone anytime soon.

I have a number of friends with iPhone X's, and so I've seen them in action, played with them briefly, and I think, "sure, that's nice!" and I have less apprehension about the adjustment I'll have to undertake when I switch to a TouchID-less iPhone.

 

[ipponrg]

Leasing is the most expensive way to drive a car.

Buying a reliable car you can afford and driving it for a long period of time is the cheapest way to drive a car.

When you lease a car, you're paying for the maintenance and brand new car in the form of a lease payment. You're renting the car and will do so in perpetuity, ultimately costing a lot more money.

Wealthy people would understand leasing cars is actually a luxury for rich people because it's not economical. Poor people tend to lease cars, because they can't afford to drive the same car if they bought it.

To elaborate further...

If you plan to keep your car for a long period of time, it's better to purchase. If you plan to change your car within the first N-years before it's paid out, it's actually more cost effective to lease it. The cost of owning the same car after lease is hardly ever worth it.

 

[Baymowe335]

To elaborate further...

If you plan to keep your car for a long period of time, it's better to purchase. If you plan to change your car within the first N-years before it's paid out, it's actually more cost effective to lease it. The cost of owning the same car after lease is hardly ever worth it.

Right. If you plan to own a car for only a few years, by all means lease it. Just know you're paying a huge premium for having a new car every few years. It's costing the person a lot of extra money. That's why leasing for rich people who understand they are paying more to rent their car.
[doublepost=1517862111][/doublepost]If I were Cook, I would stop reporting unit sales to Wallstreet. Screw them. They make up stories and their own narrative anyway.

I'd report $61.5B in iPhone profit and let the Street stew about ASP and units. I guarantee if they presented the numbers this way in Q1, people would be ooing and ahhing over how good the numbers were.

Tell them it's an ASP of $800 and 77.3M units and people say why not 82M? Why slightly down over last year?

No one wants to listen to 13 weeks instead of 14 weeks. Nov 4 launch for the flagship, giving it only 8 weeks to sell, etc etc etc.

 

[ackmondual]

Lol I was getting told I was an idiot here for disputing people who were saying the iPhone X is a failure

[shrug] Not much different from people who say Android is awful because it's Android, even though many of us here are perfectly happen with them (not to mention there's a full market of Android users).

 

[boltjames]

Leasing is the most expensive way to drive a car.

Buying a reliable car you can afford and driving it for a long period of time is the cheapest way to drive a car.

When you lease a car, you're paying for the maintenance and brand new car in the form of a lease payment. You're renting the car and will do so in perpetuity, ultimately costing a lot more money.

Wealthy people would understand leasing cars is actually a luxury for rich people because it's not economical. Poor people tend to lease cars, because they can't afford to drive the same car if they bought it.

Perpetually leasing a new car is what wealthy people do, the few hundred dollars gained by buying/sellilng is too much work for us. I can't comment on what the poor people do because I am not one of them.

As relates to the iPhone X, it's expensive no matter how you obtain it, it's the high-end model of the most luxurious brand, it's the S Class or 7 Series of the iPhone line.

 

[Baymowe335]

Perpetually leasing a new car is what wealthy people do, the few hundred dollars gained by buying/sellilng is too much work for us. I can't comment on what the poor people do because I am not one of them.

As relates to the iPhone X, it's expensive no matter how you obtain it, it's the high-end model of the most luxurious brand, it's the S Class or 7 Series of the iPhone line.

Dumb poor people lease. Smart rich people lease while also knowing it’s more expensive than buying.

Poor people lease to get into cars they can’t afford.

No one is talking about buying and selling.

 

[boltjames]

Dumb poor people lease. Smart rich people lease while also knowing it’s more expensive than buying.

Poor people lease to get into cars they can’t afford. No one is talking about buying and selling.

I view like this: There is no way to game the system. Whether leasing or owning the car companies win. The only way to make a few bucks in the game is if you buy and keep the car for over 8 years and are incredibly lucky and never have a major repair whilst out of warranty. Drive the same old car for 8 years, there goes the transmission, and in one shot there goes all your savings, you should instead of chosen to lease perpetually as you'd have been in your third new car at that junction with $0 in out of warranty costs.

Yes, smart rich people lease because the delta between buying/selling and leasing perpetually is such a small amount it doesn't move our needle either way and if you choose the right car company with the right warranty you'll never have a repair or maintenance bill. That and you're always in a brand new car which is a great luxury to have. The way I've set up my lease and my wife's lease we're bringing home a new car every 18 months, gets the kids excited.