Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple is now one of the biggest tech companies in the world. I am not sure why you think Apple or Tim Cook will face any sort of backlash or repercussions whatsoever.

Second, the US doesn’t speak for the entire world. I live in Asia and really couldn’t care less whether Apple chooses to invest China or US.

The only outcome I can think in light of all this is that - wow, I think Tim Cook deserves a bigger pay check! Personally negotiating with governments of entire nations?!?

Mention of and dealing with China is a political hot potato in the US.
 
Well of course he did! As would anyone who values privacy and security as much as Tim obviously does, which he talks about it a lot so he must, right?! Why I can just envision Tim standing there alone against a line of tanks to show his solidarity with the common man!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alex_Mac
Americans just don't get it. They represent 4% of the global population, and yet somehow expect companies to pander to them and only them.
There are 10 quintillion insects alive. Should Apple pander to them?
 
US officials sometimes ask for "contributions to the local economy", over and above the income, sales, and property taxes that will be paid in the ordinary course of business. We usually call that "bribery".
 
And everyone employing US citizens supports Guantanamo, where human rights are conveniently forgotten, right?
Just what do you think happens there? Under international law, illegal combatants may be shot of of hand, but we've granted them effective POW status. Which would you prefer?
 
Mention of and dealing with China is a political hot potato in the US.
When thinking of the long-term, I still believe that being engaged and “in the room” ends up being more powerful and effective than issuing ultimatums or cutting country relations based on differences in views and ideals. Even if it's a country like China, and this is important especially because it is China.

Apple is a design company focused on selling tools that can improve people's lives. Apple is willing to navigate volatile political landscapes, which may include dialling back certain public comments and statements, and if such actions result in more people benefiting from Apple's toolmaking mission, then so be it.

For one, I think we all know that any talk of bringing manufacturing back to the US is a fever dream. At most, we may see Apple shifting production from China to other developing nations like Vietnam (which ironically enough, remains underdeveloped today due to the nonsense that resulted from the Vietnam war). But this is also probably because manufacturing in China has been slowly becoming more expensive, due to China developing itself.

Second, I believe Tim Cook has the political savvy to handle both China and US, and my gut feel is that he is using both countries to balance each other out. I have reason to believe that China cannot come down too hard on Apple despite their ties with the US because Apple is (still) responsible for employing a significant number of their populace, and the last thing China wants is social instability caused by an increase in unemployment rates.

At the same time, my sensing is that the US has its hands full dealing with social media tech giants (especially Republicans who feel that they are being "unfairly" censored by Facebook and Twitter). Apple is also held up as a shining example of US innovation and entrepreneurship, so I don't see (a very divided) Congress coming down too hard on Apple either. Apple is simply not a priority for them.

And personally, I agree with Tim Cook's stance, for the simple reason that I feel it's still better to engage than to disengage. I don't think there is anything wrong with Apple taking a more active political stance in the US, or advocating for certain legislation. At the same time, this sort of behaviour would not be acceptable in other countries, and I accept that Apple follows the laws in each country that they operate in respectively. I would expect nothing less from any company who wishes to operate in my country.

Some people here will argue that Apple shouldn’t do business in any country that has laws or views that go against Apple’s stated beliefs. In such a world, Apple would only operate in a handful of countries. In my view, everyone loses in that situation, not least because they lose access to Apple products in their countries.

Others think Apple should use its position to basically force governments to change its ways or else. Let’s call this for what it is – people think Apple should use its power to usher in political change in various countries. It's ridiculous to think that such a notion would even be considered acceptable.

Apple did what it needed to do to secure the supply chain needed to produce sufficient supply to meet dramatically increasing demand for its products over the years, and the world is better off for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maximara
And personally, I agree with Tim Cook's stance, for the simple reason that I feel it's still better to engage than to disengage.
It's that view that has helped build China into what it is now. Trading with them and educating them hasn't moderated them. It's built them into a larger and more emboldened threat. From Nixon to MFN status....
 
TC was Steves right hand and steers that company in the exact same direction as always. Your sudden outrage is the real headscratcher.
Yup. Even during Jobs, Apple was catering to China a lot. I still remembered how Jobs announced integration of several China-focused services in macOS.
 
Yup. Even during Jobs, Apple was catering to China a lot. I still remembered how Jobs announced integration of several China-focused services in macOS.
Part of it is the continued Apple sanctimony while being in bed with people who commit actual genocide.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Alex_Mac
It's that view that has helped build China into what it is now. Trading with them and educating them hasn't moderated them. It's built them into a larger and more emboldened threat. From Nixon to MFN status....
I think what's as problematic is the view that you only engage with another nation with the intention of influencing them and bringing them in line with your own world view, or that the US is somehow supposed to the arbiter of what is right and acceptable in the world today. I have my issues with the way China does certain things, and I will take certain US-centric values such as democracy, the self and free speech over China any time of the day, but it's not like the US doesn't have blood on its hands, from the numerous wars it has started, financial crisis as a result of subprime mortgages, industrialisation and colonialism.
Completely wrong direction. Apple needs to de-extricate from China, diversify its manufacturing base, slowly get out of it, and only SELL the Chinese products at a high profit margin.
Because?
 
I think what's as problematic is the view that you only engage with another nation with the intention of influencing them and bringing them in line with your own world view, or that the US is somehow supposed to the arbiter of what is right and acceptable in the world today. I have my issues with the way China does certain things, and I will take certain US-centric values such as democracy, the self and free speech over China any time of the day, but it's not like the US doesn't have blood on its hands, from the numerous wars it has started, financial crisis as a result of subprime mortgages, industrialisation and colonialism.
Industrialziation and colonialism? The US is at fault for raising the standard of living for the world AND - what - forcing European nations to colonize Asia?

Numerous wars we started? In the last 100 years? Absent provocation or attack on the US or allies?

The "world view" we originally intended to encourage in China was a nation that was not a threat to our allies like Japan. What we've gained form that engagement and the massive wealth/knowledge transfer has been a nation that is an even larger threat.
 
This truly sours me to Apple products going forward.

China's government wants to crush the US in every way possible if it can. Make no mistake, in every way possible. Tim just gave them 275 billion US dollars to do that and untold technical knowledge.

I hope the US government investigates this and Apple has to pay a huge price for doing this. I am all for forcing Apple to allow side loading and separate payment methods for apps on iOS now. Right to repair, USB-C charging ports on everything as well.

I found this reply on another forum...and its perfect...

"Meanwhile outspoken tennis star Peng Shuai is still imprisoned. Slave run factories crank out goods. Reeducation camps are filled up with dissidents. China threatens Taiwan with routine incursions into Taiwanese air space. Reefs are destroyed in the South China Sea to build military bases. The Uyghur Muslims are imprisoned in camps. Hypersonic weapons to attack the US are developed. Espionage in the US stealing and replicating advanced technology continues. Internet filtering and content control, digital spying on citizens and foreign companies is a daily norm. Apple’s investments in China is all about money. They are so proud of their environmentalism because it doesn’t cost them that much money to be green. It’s easy to be green and it doesn’t require any political capital to be green. But it takes balls to take a stand against political and governing malfeasance. Tim Cook is a hypocrite. Embracing the easy political causes of environmentalism, LBGTQ support, education and others. But when it comes to standing up against a totalitarian regime, he shows no strength. Look at NBA star Enes Kanter Freedom for the example of a man willing to sacrifice his own financial well-being to protest The Chinese government and their way of crushing the freedoms of their people."
 
Industrialziation and colonialism? The US is at fault for raising the standard of living for the world AND - what - forcing European nations to colonize Asia?
Let’s not pretend all this was done out of the kindness of their hearts.

Numerous wars we started? In the last 100 years? Absent provocation or attack on the US or allies?

Osama was never on Afghanistan. What did Vietnam ever do to the US? Iraq has always been about the oil. And remind me again who was responsible for arming the very people who would end up forming the Al Qaeda?

What gave the US the right to invade and destabilise entire regions? Just because they have the firepower to? And look at the state of these regions today. Can you really say the US has left the world in a better place today?

The "world view" we originally intended to encourage in China was a nation that was not a threat to our allies like Japan. What we've gained form that engagement and the massive wealth/knowledge transfer has been a nation that is an even larger threat.
In the greater scheme of things, and speaking as a bystander, it may not be such a bad thing to have another country who is big enough to stand up to the US. Just saying.
 
Last edited:
but it's not like the US doesn't have blood on its hands, from the numerous wars it has started, financial crisis as a result of subprime mortgages, industrialisation and colonialism
What wars, excluding Gulf War 2, did they instigate?
 
What wars, excluding Gulf War 2, did they instigate?

I just stated them. Take the war on Afghan for example. With all respect and sympathy for the people who lost their lives during the 9/11 attack, there was absolutely no reason for the then president to rush into a war just to show that he was “on top of things”. As it turned out, Osama was nowhere near the region invaded, and how much money and how many lives have been lost to this costly 20-year war? And for what?

Likewise with Iraq. Where were the much-touted weapons of mass destruction?

Vietnam and agent orange.

It’s for this reason that I would actually nominate Bush as the worst president in US history for his role in starting two pointless wars, not Trump. Just that in the former’s case, it would be the rest of the world who bore the consequences of this bone-headed decision.
 
Let’s not pretend all this was done out of the kindness of their hearts.

Osama was never on Afghanistan. What did Vietnam ever do to the US? Iraq has always been about the oil. And remind me again who was responsible for arming the very people who would end up forming the Al Qaeda?

What gave the US the right to invade and destabilise entire regions? Just because they have the firepower to? And look at the state of these regions today. Can you really say the US has left the world in a better place today?


In the greater scheme of things, and speaking as a bystander, it may not be such a bad thing to have another country who is big enough to stand up to the US. Just saying.

(1) The Taliban sheltered Al Qaeda. That bin Laden was killed in Pakistan doesn't negate that.
(2) What did South Vietnam do to deserve the invasion by the North?
(3) The Northern Alliance didn't form "Al Qaeda".

You wouldn't like the word without the US as a major power in it. Especially when the alternative is an expansive empire-building nation like the PRC. We've been a generally benign superpower. The PRC will not be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GuruZac
Completely wrong direction. Apple needs to de-extricate from China, diversify its manufacturing base, slowly get out of it, and only SELL the Chinese products at a high profit margin.
Ain't gonna happen ever. Most likely they'll just move 100% of manufacturing and QC out of China to Philippines and Vietnam if those two countries are able keep up with the current China's throughput.

PS. This thread is definitely gonna get locked soon lol. It went from just about Apple to now US hypocritical gov't causing democide worldwide
 
Ain't gonna happen ever. Most likely they'll just move 100% of manufacturing and QC out of China to Philippines and Vietnam if those two countries are able keep up with the current China's throughput.
Ever? Even after Taiwan is ground into paste by Cook's good friends?
 
(1) The Taliban sheltered Al Qaeda. That bin Laden was killed in Pakistan doesn't negate that.
(2) What did South Vietnam do to deserve the invasion by the North?
(3) The Northern Alliance didn't form "Al Qaeda".

All I am saying is - the US creates its own worst enemies.

You wouldn't like the word without the US as a major power in it. Especially when the alternative is an expansive empire-building nation like the PRC. We've been a generally benign superpower. The PRC will not be.

I wouldn’t mind a world where the US wasn’t the only major power. Just saying.
 
All I am saying is - the US creates its own worst enemies.
In that we've helped build China into an enemy of the entire world through "engagement" polices, I'd agree.

It's as bad as doing business with late 30s Germany with the idea it would make them peaceful.
 
This truly sours me to Apple products going forward.
Are you willing to give up all products made or assembled in China? It’s not only Apple, imo.
China's government wants to crush the US in every way possible if it can. Make no mistake, in every way possible. Tim just gave them 275 billion US dollars to do that and untold technical knowledge.

I hope the US government investigates this and Apple has to pay a huge price for doing this.
They won’t and they won’t, because the world wants products produced in China.
I am all for forcing Apple to allow side loading
I’m not.
and separate payment methods for apps on iOS now.
I’m not, but we’ll see.
Right to repair, USB-C charging ports on everything as well.

[…]
Right to repair yes, usb-c no.
 
Ever? Even after Taiwan is ground into paste by Cook's good friends?

I believe Apple and the current administration won't do a thing since that matter does not fit their political and financial interests
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.