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Apple CEO Tim Cook Speaks Out Against Indiana's 'Religious Freedom' Law

MacrumoursUser said:
Well yeah since i might say i didn't become straight i was born one the opposite must also be true. Sorry doesn't work that way not with dragon shaking at least.
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I don't understand. So you can only be born straight and then make the decision to not want to have sex with the opposite sex but want to have sex with the same sex instead? So, if you are a man you originally want to have sex with women. But, for some reason you then decide to do away with that preference and change your mind to want to have sex with men instead? If you can stop being ignorant for a second and try and get your head around this, why would anyone do that? If they know they want something, why would they change to something completely different simply knowing that there is danger in letting anyone know they have made the switch?
 
nick42983 said:
Using police state tactics to force people to do business with someone against their values will backfire, as it should
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It appears like it already has, I'm sure the states passing these are because of the bakery that got sued, and lost, for not baking a wedding cake for gays.

I'm not taking sides, just saying it's been happening after that.
 
fitshaced said:
I don't understand. So you can only be born straight and then make the decision to not want to have sex with the opposite sex but want to have sex with the same sex instead? So, if you are a man you originally want to have sex with women. But, for some reason you then decide to do away with that preference and change your mind to want to have sex with men instead? If you can stop being ignorant for a second and try and get your head around this, why would anyone do that? If they know they want something, why would they change to something completely different simply knowing that there is danger in letting anyone know they have made the switch?
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Well that the 64 000 dollar question.
 
OLDCODGER said:
You are correct - I should have (again) stated Aryan Race.

Ask Mother Nature Put a group of homosexuals and lesbians on an isolated island, and see what eventuates after, say, a hundred years.
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Germans where not Aryan as most Aryan people Have dark skin and brown eyes.

The separated lesbian and gay communities would do just fine as homosexuality is normal and even has advantages over heterosexual in some cases.
 
OLDCODGER said:
You are correct - I should have (again) stated Aryan Race.

Ask Mother Nature Put a group of homosexuals and lesbians on an isolated island, and see what eventuates after, say, a hundred years.
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They'd probably die off after a long healthy life. It's not relevant though. Survival of the fittest does not necessarily mean that the human race will survive many changes to evolution. If homosexuality keeps growing and becomes the new majority, that could be our fate. Or we could evolve to adapt such as giraffes needing a longer neck to reach the higher trees. Who knows? What you prefer to happen is irrelevant.
 
brianvictor7 said:
Yes.


I agree with your point. We are not in disagreement.


Disagree with the spirit of this statement. Discriminators are trying to help society by trying to suppress a seriously bad sexual behavior. Even if I believe that this is an ineffective way of going about the problem, I don't question their intentions. Also, there is no point in saying they shouldn't try just because they aren't perfect themselves. The ideal doesn't change just because we fall short of it.
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A good friend of mine used the most effective means of reaching people with the gospel that she worked with. Some of them, their lives were reprehensible. How did she do it? She told them she was a Christian.... And said nothing else about Christianity. No preaching. No scorning. NOTHING. Just treated them the same as anyone else she knew.

Every last one of those folks, including their families, came to know Christ. If you asked them why... They would just say her lifestyle showed them Christ.

Laws are not needed. Christians just need to be Christians and stop trying to force holiness on people.
 
2010mini said:
A good friend of mine used the most effective means of reaching people with the gospel that she worked with. Some of them, their lives were reprehensible. How did she do it? She told them she was a Christian.... And said nothing else about Christianity. No preaching. No scorning. NOTHING. Just treated them the same as anyone else she knew.

Every last one of those folks, including their families, came to know Christ. If you asked them why... They would just say her lifestyle showed them Christ.

Laws are not needed. Christians just need to be Christians and stop trying to force holiness on people.
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Agreed. Very effective approach. I'm still learning it.
 
OLDCODGER said:
It cannot, since it cannot reproduce without hypocritical intervention.
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Yes it can. Men and women do not need to have sex for babies to be born. If more and more babies are born gay, evolution decides what happens next.
 
brianvictor7 said:
It is very easy for things to go too far the other way. While it turns out that I used a poor example with the Chaplain (see post above), I fear that reverse discrimination is inevitable in regards to Christians. We are going to be increasingly expected to show what amounts to tacit approval for homosexual behavior. We already have to do that for fornication and adultery.

Here is a concrete example: When I have a coworker show me picture of her fiancé and it is another girl, how am I supposed to react? I can't be happy about it. That is against my religious beliefs. At the same time I don't want to cause a rift in our working relationship. You see the problem?
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You are correct, and it will get worse. As the atheist community grows, christian will become a minority like in Europe. Once that happens expect more and more laws that will discriminate against christianity. It will be nice to see christians get a taste of there own medicine.
 
OLDCODGER said:
Well, that settles it, then. Calling all geneticists, your attention is required - worldwide.
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Genetics is not the whole answer. There are identical twin studies where 1 is homosexual and the other isn't. But I would agree with you that Genetics is probably the strongest influence.
 
strausd said:
A private business has the right to do what they want with their business. If you don't like it, go spend your money elsewhere. If enough people do it, the business will go under. That is how the free market works.

Let's also remember that businesses likely won't turn down somebody just for being gay, but they might refuse to make a cake that supports/promotes the lifestyle.

Should a shirt company owned by anti-gun individuals be forced to make shirts for an open carry rally? No, they shouldn't because those individuals have the freedom to do what they want with their business.

The logic is quite simple, should somebody be forced to support an ideology they disagree with? It is a simple yes or no question.
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Well said! In my opinion, as long as we have laws preventing the government from discriminating, we should get rid of all discrimination laws for businesses. These laws just create frivolous law suits and don't really help anyone, except the lawyers of course.

I'm an employer, and when I think of hiring someone, I can't help seeing a walking discrimination law suit when women, blacks, gays or people with disabilities applies for a job. These groups would get more job offers if employers did not have to worry about discrimination laws suits. Running a business is difficult enough, even without this added worry.

So just like most government laws that are supposed to help people, they actually hurt the people they were supposed to help. If a business owner wants to be a bigot, then let him! It will cost him dearly in both lost income and bad publicity. Not many businesses would be willing to do that. It's only when the government makes laws that discriminate against certain groups that we have a problem.

Also, everyone, including customers, employees, people of all colors and genders, are perfectly free to discriminate as much as they want in their life. You don't want to buy an iPhone because Tim Cook is gay, no problem. You only want to date people of the same race or religion as yourself, no problem. You don't want to hang out with someone because he or she is an idiot, no problem, go ahead!

So why is it, that because someone decides to become an entrepreneur, with all the sacrifices and risks that it entails, that all of a sudden he or she loses this basic human right to decide who you want to associate with or who to do business with. It's wicked and it's wrong.
 
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2010mini said:
A good friend of mine used the most effective means of reaching people with the gospel that she worked with. Some of them, their lives were reprehensible. How did she do it? She told them she was a Christian.... And said nothing else about Christianity. No preaching. No scorning. NOTHING. Just treated them the same as anyone else she knew.

Every last one of those folks, including their families, came to know Christ. If you asked them why... They would just say her lifestyle showed them Christ.

Laws are not needed. Christians just need to be Christians and stop trying to force holiness on people.
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There are things worth believing in, but not this fiction.
 
cfedu said:
You are correct, and it will get worse. As the atheist community grows, christian will become a minority like in Europe. Once that happens expect more and more laws that will discriminate against christianity. It will be nice to see christians get a taste of there own medicine.
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The world will be a better place when humans can grow up and stop relying on myths made up for mostly illiterate and uneducated nomadic societies.
 
brianvictor7 said:
I don't know what personal ethics have to do with mythology as I wasn't talking about mythology.
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Myth
noun
a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

I would say that definition describes the contents of the Bible exactly. Since you seemed to be implying a person's morality/ethics are somehow a result of them believing Bible stories (mythology). I mearly pointed out that in practice personal ethics are unrelated to these beliefs.
 
fitshaced said:
Or maybe rub your braincells together for a second and try and answer. You say these people decide to be gay. They tell you they did not make such a decision. How could you be right?
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Please show me where i said they decide? I said its due to external factors. Don't twist my words.
 
brianvictor7 said:
It is very easy for things to go too far the other way. While it turns out that I used a poor example with the Chaplain (see post above), I fear that reverse discrimination is inevitable in regards to Christians. We are going to be increasingly expected to show what amounts to tacit approval for homosexual behavior. We already have to do that for fornication and adultery.

Here is a concrete example: When I have a coworker show me picture of her fiancé and it is another girl, how am I supposed to react? I can't be happy about it. That is against my religious beliefs. At the same time I don't want to cause a rift in our working relationship. You see the problem? (In my real life example, I merely said, "Okay" and changed the subject. From a Christian point of view, I'm not sure if even that was the appropriate response.)
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In that example, you could have opted to do the HUMAN thing and be happy for her having found mutual, ever-lasting love.

When in conflict, human decency should always trump religion.
 
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