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And these developers wouldn't exist without Apple. They knew when they started what the deal was and they accepted it. Don't like it? Make your apps for another platform.

Another platform? You mean Android? There's only one other platform and it's essentially identical to the App store. Even Microsoft gave up trying to compete. Stop trying to present this as some freedom to take your business elsewhere. There is no elsewhere. There's not even the ability to build an elsewhere. This is a total duopoly that is immune to competition.
 
Another platform? You mean Android? There's only one other platform and it's essentially identical to the App store. Even Microsoft gave up trying to compete. Stop trying to present this as some freedom to take your business elsewhere. There is no elsewhere. There's not even the ability to build an elsewhere. This is a total duopoly that is immune to competition.
It's only a duopoly awaiting some disruption. There is no law prohibiting the development of another type of phone/smartphone or ecosystem to go along with it. Just needs some upstart to kick some, you know what.
 
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The Apple Store and Google Play Store are operated like mafias with: ever changing rules, heavy 30% cut on all sales with no alternative allowed, considering developers as disposable fodder with the gatekeeper having god power for determining who lives and who dies, imposing artificial limitations preventing innovation (example: webkit only allowed browsing engine) and a tad of arrogance in general. It gets less and less tenable to have a long term reliable business on these platforms.

An angry developer.
 
or Apps for my Xbox,PS4 or Switch ? Walled gardens there too.....

Yep, people seem to ignore this comment as I have stated it several times. If Apple is forced to "open things up", they better force it on Xbox and Playstation too. Otherwise this will seem like fighting with Apple just because its Apple.
 
Answer ONE question Tim: Why do apps have a choice to be installed outside the App Store on Mac, but not on iPhone/iPad? Is the Mac not secure?

Those are entirely different platforms. macOS and Windows are extensions of old software that did not have security and heavy sandboxing in mind. iOS does.
 
That’s an excuse. You could lock down macOS to App Store apps, or you could allow outside installs on iOS within sandboxing rules. Apple plays two different games.

Unless you want Apple to stop releasing new macOS versions for a few years while they build a brand new one from scratch, its not going to happen. macOS does not have that level of sandboxing and security built in to it.

And like I said, they are two entirely different platforms. One has 100% multitasking, while the other has limited functionality for background apps.
 
The current system is better than anything that existed before. You don't like it? No one is forcing you to consume or develop iOS apps...move on to Android or Windows, or a different career field. You can't force Apple to run their company a certain way, or reduce their fees, or stop advertising for their own apps. It's their store. They thought of it, developed it, invested the $$ and made it happen; therefore they get to set the pricing, just like any store owner. If people don't like it they will vote with their wallets and Apple will adjust (or fail). Why is this concept so hard for people to understand. It's called Capitalism.

Agree 100%
It's my store, it's my device and it's my rule system.
 
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macOS already has an option pane to limit apps to only be installed from the App Store. Regardless of your feelings on the underlying OS architecture, why doesn’t Apple enable this by default? Surely it would be more secure than before, no?
You clearly don't understand that these are two different platforms do you? One is a phone, that typically only has access to one program open at a time. While the others can support multiple 6K monitors and can have hundreds of programs working at 100% multitasking capabilities.

And your same argument can also be applied to Windows you know. Or are you just attacking Apple because its Apple? The sheer amount of Apple bashing on this site always shocks me, while Microsoft, Sony and many others get a pass. Why doesn't Windows force user to install from their store? Oh right, they tried with Windows 10 S and it failed horribly.

You do realize that Apple has probably thought about everything people here are saying. You honestly think that some person on this site (myself included so no disrespect intended) are better than their employees? That only you would have thought about something but Apple's team of thousands did not?

Apple probably did a focus group and everyone hated that the macOS was locked down to just the App Store.
 
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It's only a duopoly awaiting some disruption. There is no law prohibiting the development of another type of phone/smartphone or ecosystem to go along with it. Just needs some upstart to kick some, you know what.

When an international mega corporation with tens of billions of dollars at its disposal, decades of experience and the ability to attract world class developers throws in the towel on trying to do just that, what hope does "some upstart" have?

None.

There are some situations that are impossible to overcome. No serious person, no venture capitalist on the planet will fund the literally billions it would require to even try to compete with Android/iOS. It's over. Without the ability to raise those billions, it cannot happen. The scale of such a project is unfathomably big.

There is no conceivable way to disrupt the duopoly without legal government enforcement. To claim otherwise is utterly naive about the realities of such a task.
 
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It was a projection, like virtually anyone on here could figure out. Please tell me you’re not actually that daft that you think I actually expected a reply from Tim Cook on the MacRumors forums. (No, you didn’t, it was yet another one of those “i found an opportunity to tear someone down!” sad reflections of the human race, and I’m wasting text on it)
Criticizing Apple in the form of an online "Dear Tim" letter is a meme at this point in time. Sometimes it's genuinely hard to ascertain if some of these posts understand the difference.
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When an international mega corporation with tens of billions of dollars at its disposal, decades of experience and the ability to attract world class developers throws in the towel on trying to do just that, what hope does "some upstart" have?

None.

There are some situations that are impossible to overcome. No serious person, no venture capitalist on the planet will fund the literally billions it would require to even try to compete with Android/iOS. It's over. Without the ability to raise those billions, it cannot happen. The scale of such a project is unfathomably big.

There is no conceivable way to disrupt the duopoly without legal government enforcement. To claim otherwise is utterly naive about the realities of such a task.
And yet, this is not like trying wire many of the towns around here with another cable provider. Nobody is stopping some deep pockets from knocking out the champs.

I guess competition is a great thing (as keeps getting parroted around here), as long as there is some governmental interference to make it happen.
 
I understand they are two different platforms, and that Apple is allowing two different freedoms for them. You never specifically addressed this, and instead want me to address Microsoft? What phone platform are they locking down? Or I need to concern myself with what level of multitasking one platform has, like that has anything to do with user & developer freedoms? I like Apple a lot BTW. But I’m not slavishly defensive of them.
You need to compare Apples to Apples (pun intended). macOS needs to be compared with Windows. NOT iOS. Computers are not phones, and they operate entirely differently. Therefore, why should Apple lock down macOS that has a history of being open while Microsoft does not lock down Windows? The iPhone, since it began, has been locked down. Its baked into the operating system. macOS does not have this baked in and even up to now, it has remained open.
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So you do understand that people hate it. Now you see the problem developers are having with iOS.
Again, iOS is not a computer operating system. There are huge differences here.
 
That still doesn’t sit right with me. The usage model, the security type, or the history of the device should not have anything to do with the freedom to install software. I think Apple is somehow trying to get people to equate these very different things. It’s technically feasible to lock down macOS or allow side loading on iOS, and both are possible TODAY.

And yes, smartphones (and especially iPads, lest we forget) are now considered general computing devices.

Why is this an issue now then? Its not like iOS 13 suddenly made it locked down. Its been like this since day 1 since iPhone released the App Store. If you have not liked it in roughly 10 years, why are you still getting the phones?
 
Those are entirely different platforms. macOS and Windows are extensions of old software that did not have security and heavy sandboxing in mind. iOS does.
hehe.. wait. now developers in the future will be forced to build universal apps... so same.
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You need to compare Apples to Apples (pun intended). macOS needs to be compared with Windows. NOT iOS. Computers are not phones, and they operate entirely differently. Therefore, why should Apple lock down macOS that has a history of being open while Microsoft does not lock down Windows? The iPhone, since it began, has been locked down. Its baked into the operating system. macOS does not have this baked in and even up to now, it has remained open.
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Again, iOS is not a computer operating system. There are huge differences here.
ipad is not computer operating system because it doesn't have calculator..;)

computer means something can be calculated or compute so can be called as the operating system. It totally weird not to said android and iOS is not operating system.
 
That was probably one of Apple's greatest decisions. Alex Jones is a psychopath and a hate monger.
Doesn’t matter what he is, he had a following, so for many humans he was a source of direction Or source of something (information however false, or novelty), and true freedom of speech Should protect all views not just palatable ones that fit within certain constrain.
 
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hehe.. wait. now developers in the future will be forced to build universal apps... so same.
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ipad is not computer operating system because it doesn't have calculator..;)

computer means something can be calculated or compute so can be called as the operating system. It totally weird not to said android and iOS is not operating system.

There is a common distinction between computers and tablets and phones. If people really want to be critical then yes even ovens are computers. Cars are computers. I don't think that makes the conversation any different when stated that macOS is a computer operating system and iOS is a phone operating system.
 
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