That is simply not true! Ireland paid 1,777.05 M€ and received 1,818.32 M€ from the EU.
Source https://www.europarl.europa.eu
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Apple CFO Luca Maestri to Lead Challenge Against Irish Tax Ruling in Luxembourg Court This Week
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Source https://www.europarl.europa.eu
This is going to be crazy. First, they need to challenge the competition commission's jurisdiction and authority. Then, assuming that Apple is unsuccessful in that (and that particular question may take years to litigate), then they get to litigate whether the commission's ruling was using the correct interpretation of the specific rules/statutes that they relied on to make their decision.
Including all the appeals, etc, I can't see this taking less than 5 years.
Including all the appeals, etc, I can't see this taking less than 5 years.
Don't worry about it. I'm sure your time is better spent waiting in line for the new iPhone ... you know, that thing that people used to do in the aughts when it was considered cool. (spoiler alert: it was never cool)
You're right. Humbly suggesting that I am more well versed in these matters than the vast majority of the public but probably can't be the expert witness for one of the largest company's in the world must automatically mean I am dumb, diffident, and very badly misinformed. You win, sir.
I'm Irish and find it disgusting that the Irish government is suing the EU.
Apple and other corporations can afford to pay the taxes and instead spend 10's of millions every year on lobbying governments and tax avoidance loopholes to pay as little as they can.
Who are the winners - the expensive overpaid lawyers, accountants & apple management.
Apple and other corporations can afford to pay the taxes and instead spend 10's of millions every year on lobbying governments and tax avoidance loopholes to pay as little as they can.
Who are the winners - the expensive overpaid lawyers, accountants & apple management.
That’s kind of my point. Why should taxes be paid twice? If consumers are paying taxes than the corporation shouldn’t. After all the consumer ends up paying more because the of the corporation tax. By not paying as high of a corporate tax Apple can price their products more competitively. You could also make the same argument in reverse to justify Apple paying more by getting rid of VAT.
The court case is because the European Competition Commission believes that Apple's tax deal with Ireland (and probably all tax deals involving double-irish like structures) is anti-competitive or something like that. It could be an unfair subsidy, etc.
The ECC is basically saying Ireland broke the law, not Apple. Whether Ireland did break the law is unclear. That's why courts exists - to adjudicate conflicts of law.
So if Ireland did break the law, it ends up apple has to pay a $15 billion fine. Why can't people just leave apple alone.
This case is about the European community contesting the validity on an Ireland law (because Ireland is part of the EU). Apple just followed that Irish law in this case. I am European and I think all tech corporations (Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook) should pay a lot more taxes here, but this is really the dumbest and less fair way for that to happen imho.
If you have to pay an income tax, don't you try to minimize the tax you pay ?
I understand you think it's noble to pay more tax than legally required, but many intelligent, contributing citizens find it unconscionable to trust the government to use our funds more responsibly than we would.
You are welcome to continue not to take charitable deductions when permissible, not to pay the lesser of the standard deduction versus the itemized deduction, etc., so you can post "tax minimization schemes are a disgrace."
Although I think it's foolish to give the government more that is required when a plethora of charities can accomplish any given welfare objective at a fraction of the cost, I wouldn't call what you advocate a "disgrace." "Presumptuous" and "misled," but not a "disgrace."
P.S. if you are fortunate enough to have wealth to pass on to your kids, I expect you wouldn't consider using trusts or other such schemes to minimize what Uncle Sam, takes, would you? Good. Because, for you (and 22 others on this forum) believe that would be a "disgrace."
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You don’t seem to know that the tax percentage in Ireland is much higher than what Apple paid due to the - assumably - illegal tax deal - hence the lawsuit.
Well the fact that you've clearly demonstrated that you don't seem to have the faintest idea about the state aid provisions in the Treaty of Rome or article 107 on the Function of the European Union would suggest that you're clueless on this matter. You may have some idea on how the tax system works in the U.S where states make tax deals like this with companies all the time, but over here in the EU these qualify as illegal state aid unless explicitly approved by the EU (which is what happened when the U.K nationalized the Lloyds bank to prevent it from going under during the financial crisis).
One of the things that they teach lawyers in law school is not to make definitive statements like that about the legality of things in other countries/regions with different laws and legal institutions. You should probably follow that example and preface your definitive statements with "Well I don't know much about EU law and treaties, but in the U.S..." or something similar.
This really is the tax equivalent of someone knowingly buying stolen goods and then being sour over having to give those goods back when caught by the police.
I don't speak whatever language that is - can't really respond to you. If you think the Irish Times were lying take it up with them.
Thank you for summarizing your Google search results with Wikipedia excerpts above. It was very helpful that you defined "illegal state aid" for me as I had never heard of that term before.
*whispers* the General Court has already dismissed similar cases recently i.e. Belgian tax break that benefited BP and others and was deemed not a state aid scheme
Alas, I digress.
Enjoy the rest of your day, SarcasticJoe!
I prefer to press a button. But it seems many thousands of people did think waiting in line was cool.
I prefer to press a button. But it seems many thousands of people did think waiting in line was cool.
And many millions of people thought those thousands of people waiting in line were dorks.
Apple wouldn’t be paying a 15 billion fine, they’d be paying the taxes they legally owed.