Apple Challenges EU Digital Markets Act Over Feature Delays

[SBlue1]

The market wants the closed ecosystem of Apple. That's how they beat everybody, including Nokia, by having superior quality and superior security.

Not true. I am part of the market, owning Macs, Phones and more. I want to run software I want from sources I want. Screw the closed ecosystem. Apple is lagging behind in almost every major feature and almost every hardware category. Why can't I select YouTube music as my major music source when I ask Siri to play something on my HomePod mini? Why can't I buy a far superior and better looking smartwatch from another manufacturer to use with my iPhone? Why was I not allowed to download any iPhone app I wanted before the EU forced Apple to open up? Why is Headphone Accommodations hardware locked to only selected Apple headphones when it used to be open for all headphones on the old iPhones?

 

[btrach144]

Booo, Apple you look like the bad guy when you do things like this.

 

[matthijst]

What does requiring Apple give live translation to Bose & B&O have to do with the App Store and Apple's cut at all?

Apple made this up. They’re just delaying some functions so they hope EU consumers will start to complain.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple made this up. They’re just delaying some functions so they hope EU consumers will start to complain.

It's refreshing to see this clarity.

I wish folks would internalize the fact that Apple is willing to lie.

We know this just from small snippets in legal proceedings.

 

[ToothBlueth]

Don’t think Apple will compromise on core principles. Once they do it sets a precedent going forward. So yeah I think Apple will forego some of the birthday cake.

Just like they have given up on China, indeed.

The only way to deal with this is head-on like Apple is doing and showing the world the hypocrisy of the eu government and the DMA.

The only thing Apple is showing is its own hypocrisy and how little they care for their users. The EU Parliament and indirectly the Commission is a mandate by voters, among which many Apple users who care about competition and fairness.

 

[MilaM]

Don’t think Apple will compromise on core principles. Once they do it sets a precedent going forward. So yeah I think Apple will forego some of the birthday cake.

The only way to deal with this is head-on like Apple is doing and showing the world the hypocrisy of the eu government and the DMA.

The hypocrisy is strong on both sides of the Atlantic. But for some reason I only hear loud opposition in Europe. Never in China. And lately Apple has been very quiet in the US too.

 

[.wojtek]

Certainly hope you living by your own words. Apple is playing by the rules, hence why the EU has a less complete product than the rest of the world.

I do!

Funnily enough all other vendors can provide similar/same/better features in the EU but only Apple stoops to being an extortionist, mafia-like bully

Hope they do leave, the EU is a disgrace and embarrassing now. People don’t want gov in their lives

That's reach comming from someone from "Phoenix. AZ" that probably never been in the EU
I guess the folks from the "freedom" USA will never understand other perspective where the governement is not "the enemy"

Alas, overwhelming majority in the EU is quite happy:

 

[surferfb]

Apple made this up. They’re just delaying some functions so they hope EU consumers will start to complain.

Please provide proof Apple made this up. This is the text of the DMA:

The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper.

Is your suggestion that the Live Translation is not a "software feature accessed or controlled via the OS"? If you agree that it is, why would this not apply to that feature?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. The plain language of the DMA says Apple has to give access to that feature to any "provider of hardware" or get fined. It's not a debatable point, and Apple absolutely did not "make it up."

 

[BaldiMac]

Having read the DMA quite a few times, there is absolutely nothing there to prevent them except their own fear that they may be required to expose an API or let MS' PhoneLink app to do the same.

It's quite a thing to comment on an article that explains Apple's reasoning and pretend that reasoning doesn't exist.

 

[Webcat86]

It's quite a thing to comment on an article that explains Apple's reasoning and pretend that reasoning doesn't exist.

This is the same forum where people who haven’t held an iPhone Air are trying to claim superior knowledge of the battery life with people who actually own the Air.

 

[I7guy]

I do!

Funnily enough all other vendors can provide similar/same/better features in the EU but only Apple stoops to being an extortionist, mafia-like bully

Great so you sport the competition because you dislike apples’ policies. That’s the beauty of competition.

That's reach comming from someone from "Phoenix. AZ" that probably never been in the EU
I guess the folks from the "freedom" USA will never understand other perspective where the governement is not "the enemy"

Government is your enemy, it’s just that you view it that way.

Alas, overwhelming majority in the EU is quite happy:
View attachment 2558621

 

[I7guy]

The hypocrisy is strong on both sides of the Atlantic. But for some reason I only hear loud opposition in Europe. Never in China. And lately Apple has been very quiet in the US too.

What’s the expression? Where there is smoke there is fire.

 

[Ethosik]

Why doesn't Apple understand that an adult should get unrestricted access to pornography apps? I still remember the time before YouTube and social networks, when pornography created the majority of all internet traffic.

Well that is going to be banned at the source even lewd and slightly risque content will be getting banned now. Apple is the least of your worries if you want that type of content.

 

[Webcat86]

Well that is going to be banned at the source even lewd and slightly risque content will be getting banned now. Apple is the least of your worries if you want that type of content.

Right. There are so many Reddit profiles I can’t view now without age verification, and they’re not pornographic.

 

[Ethosik]

Apple, if you are serious about privacy and security: make the AppStore free, so nobody will complain.

The people who have initiated this whole thing -- Epic -- have stated in court that even their SLIGHTLY LESS cut of the Epic Games Store is not profitable.

A company will NOT lose money on a platform due to hosting fees, server costs, maintenance etc.

 

[surferfb]

It's refreshing to see this clarity.

I wish folks would internalize the fact that Apple is willing to lie.

We know this just from small snippets in legal proceedings.

Except it isn't true. There is zero evidence Apple made it up. The text of the law says otherwise. The EU didn't deny it in their statement pushing back on Apple's claims either.

While I understand those who support the DMA wish it were true that Apple is just withholding things out of spite, that makes no business sense and doesn't track with the text of the legislation AND the spirit of it.

 

[Ethosik]

Right. There are so many Reddit profiles I can’t view now without age verification, and they’re not pornographic.

Its not just age verification, its hitting NSFW games very hard right now Visa and Mastercard are essentially making their own rules on what is considered legal to purchase. Patreon is targeted now. It would not surprise me if they go overboard and try to ban GTA 6. I hope they do, I hope they attempt it and get taken to court and end this whole situation.

 

[Ethosik]

Apple is complying though. While complying, also pointing out why the law is bad and hurts consumers.

Do you really think that just because the phone knows the wifi networks it has connected to that Apple should be required to give that information to any app developer who asks for it? Because that's literally what the DMA say with "if the Apple has access to it, third parties get access to it" requirement.

This is just purely wrong. Not you and not what you said, but the whole "If Apple has access to it, everyone should". This is the sole reason for the whole Crowdstrike debacle on Windows. There are times where the operating system creator should have more access than some random company.

 

[Ethosik]

Apple really is trying it’s best to gaslight everyone, it has nothing to do with any consumerism and everything to do with Apple protecting it’s 30% cut.

As they are technically required to until they are forced by law. They need to protect their revenue streams. If they don't put up a fight, and just lose the 30%, shareholders will NOT be happy and leads to lawsuits.

 

[wanha]

Samsung's apps don't prevent you from installing third-party software. As an example, if you don't like Samsung's browser, you can just install a different one.

Errr… how is that any different on iOS?

 

[AppliedMicro]

There are absolutely reasons that the hardware and OS manufacturer/developer should have access to things that third parties can't, and the EU just completely ignores that.

I don't see any such reasons.

Apple does not require my Wi-Fi history or historic location data (the data you mentioned and quoted). Period.
Not anymore than any other provider of digital services that I agree to provide it to on an opt-in basis.
The iPhone itself, for proper functioning? Yes. But the data can stay on my phone and Apple doesn't need access to it.

What I see is the more regulations the more you become the product.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, I totally disagree.
The more governments and regulators allow the biggest, most powerful corporations in the world to act free from regulation, the more consumers become the product. The U.S. advertising and data collection/mining industries are prime examples.

Apple implemented App Tracking Transparency. Facebook was furious.

The app tracking transparency that Apple exempts itself from - while running a competing advertising service?
Facebook had good reason to be furious on the grounds of anticompetitiveness - and I'm saying this as someone who finds Facebook and its data collection creepy (and considers them acting anticompetitive themselves).

Apple is playing by the rules, hence why the EU has a less complete product than the rest of the world.

...except: They aren't playing by the rules - that's why they've been fined for violating the rules.

So use a cross-platform app like 1Password. Apple’s own passwords manager is cross-platform, I believe?

Cross-platform as in supporting Windows - but not Android.

 

[AppliedMicro]

The EU is taking the closed option away that millions prefer, along with Apple users's privacy, safety and security

No one is forced to use any of the alternative services or products the DMA allows competitors to offer.
Everyone can stay in Apple's walled garden if they desire so.

This is absolutely not what is happening here. The EU is about to introduce a powerful privacy-invading law called ChatControl that will be constantly scanning all our messages and photos ( for europeans), and they need all computing devices to have weakened privacy for that. See my message earlier here : https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ys.2467466/page-5?post=34178232#post-34178232

And the argument does not make sense at all to me.

The "best", easiest and most inescapable way of ensuring "Chat Control" for authoritarian governments is to have to deal with only a handful of gatekeeping application store providers - that control all consumer access for such apps.

I.e., you want to control messenging services thoroughly, you have to limit the applications and services customers can install on their device. By having the few operating system platforms under close control and surveillance - and customers' way of installing apps.

And the "great" thing about it: If these OS are provided by profit- and monopoly-seeking companies like Apple and Google, their interests of maintaining a monopoly (to make profit) align with the goverment's (control and surveillance).

👉 If anything undermines chat control, it's users being able to install applications on their devices without gatekeeping OS developers involved.

 

[AppliedMicro]

What does requiring Apple give live translation to Bose & B&O have to do with the App Store and Apple's cut at all?

They don't have to give them access to live translation, as in the algorithms etc.

Bose and B&O make speakers, headphones and earphones.
So do Apple.

The AirPods Pro can't and don't provide live translation. They just act as the "dumb" ear and mouth, the microphones and speakers, and the conduit to "forward" audio to and from an iPhone (which does the translation processing).

There's no technical (nor privacy-related) reason to limit that iPhone feature to AirPods.

It's just Apple - again - leveraging their gatekeeping power in mobile devices (smartphones) to gain an advantage on the market for earphones.

 

[surferfb]

I don't see any such reasons.

Apple does not require my Wi-Fi history or historic location data (the data you mentioned and quoted). Period.
Not anymore than any other provider of digital services that I agree to provide it to on an opt-in basis.
The iPhone itself, for proper functioning? Yes. But the data can stay on my phone and Apple doesn't need access to it.

You’re creating a distinction where none exists. iOS needs Wi-Fi history to function properly. Otherwise your phone couldn’t automatically reconnect to known networks, prioritize one network over another, etc. That history can (and generally does) stay local to the device, encrypted, and used by the OS itself.

The DMA says if a feature is used by the OS, third parties should have access to it. And third parties agree! Unless you're also going to accuse Apple of lying in this statement, third parties have already requested access to this kind of data under the interoperability rules.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Why doesn't Apple understand that an adult should get unrestricted access to pornography apps? I still remember the time before YouTube and social networks, when pornography created the majority of all internet traffic.

It’s really a sad state of affairs that there’s no way to view pornography except via Apple devices. I’m sure folks have done the research and found that there’s no other platform that has pornography apps. And, the people that want them should be able to buy a non-iPhone mobile platform and load all the pornography apps they want!

Unfortunately, that’s not the world we live in.