But you still use Apple? they are the one that caused this mess, not paypal.
I don't hear you saying "And That is why you don't buy from Apple."
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Apple Charges Customer 122 Times for Lion
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But you still use Apple? they are the one that caused this mess, not paypal.
I don't hear you saying "And That is why you don't buy from Apple."
Pay Pal is troublesome. I used to use them for a auto payment to a company for a service. I was banking a a major national bank at the time which was in the middle of a merger and they made it publicly known that account access wold not be available over a weekend in 3 states to change over the IT systems. Pay Pal decides to try to process a payment that weekend and it fails, I sent Pay Pal support multiple emails but got no response, I needed to contact the company directly to change payment type. Pay Pal then attempts to process the payment again but for some reason there system is not interacting correctly with the new banks system (don't know if it was there fault or the banks, the new banks system also seemed bad to the point where I am switching banks), once again no response from emails to Pay Pal support, that was the last time I used Pay Pal and don't plan on using them again.
^*%!?$&'!
You guys. PayPal is a payment processor. They do what companies and consumers ask. The issue comes in when one party makes a mistake... In most cases, a consumer misunderstanding prompts a consumer to do something they didn't intend, and that's why people say stuff like "PayPal is stealing my money!" or, rarely, they took a genuine business risk that was their choice but they tend to think PayPal is some endless insurance.
In this case, the error was APPLE. I love Apple, but this is 100% their fault. PayPal isn't employed by Apple to tell them "no" on transactions, especially on a product launch day. They do whatever the heck Apple tells them to do.
You guys. PayPal is a payment processor. They do what companies and consumers ask. The issue comes in when one party makes a mistake... In most cases, a consumer misunderstanding prompts a consumer to do something they didn't intend, and that's why people say stuff like "PayPal is stealing my money!" or, rarely, they took a genuine business risk that was their choice but they tend to think PayPal is some endless insurance.
In this case, the error was APPLE. I love Apple, but this is 100% their fault. PayPal isn't employed by Apple to tell them "no" on transactions, especially on a product launch day. They do whatever the heck Apple tells them to do.
LOL. There is a clause that says if you file a lawsuit against PayPal under $10k without attempting out-of-court arbitration first, they can counter sue for up to $1k USD. Which, I am sorry to say, is a possibility in ANY lawsuit, just most companies don't feel a need to tell you. This is fairly standard for mandatory arbitration clauses in user agreements and probably a good idea. Nothing about legal fees being automatically deducted. This is insanely ridiculous, and I suggest you read the PayPal ToS, for once.
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That's horrible. I can't imagine when he logged into PayPal and say 121 extra purchases of $31.79. Frankly, I'd be scared out of my mind. This is one of those instances when I take a step back and look at the current state of technology in our daily lives.
Technology is great. It's the reason I'm able to submit this post now and the reason I've been able to learn so many great things I otherwise wouldn't have learned, but it is still prone to errors. Not too long ago when we all walked into our local Apple stores and purchased our copy of Snow Leopard, there was a 0% possibility of something like this happening. Everyone could go to their home, pop in the disc, and begin the installation.
There was no worry about whether something would go wrong and accidentally purchase the product multiple times. I'm not suggesting that we go back to the days when we went to purchase a disc, as for the most part, this new way of purchasing an OS is excellent. But companies like Apple and PayPal really need to have fail-safe plans in place so that when things like this happens, they're able to keep their customers instead of scaring them away.
With $76 billion on hand, you'd think Apple would give this guy (and those who also faced this issue) a break.
Technology is great. It's the reason I'm able to submit this post now and the reason I've been able to learn so many great things I otherwise wouldn't have learned, but it is still prone to errors. Not too long ago when we all walked into our local Apple stores and purchased our copy of Snow Leopard, there was a 0% possibility of something like this happening. Everyone could go to their home, pop in the disc, and begin the installation.
There was no worry about whether something would go wrong and accidentally purchase the product multiple times. I'm not suggesting that we go back to the days when we went to purchase a disc, as for the most part, this new way of purchasing an OS is excellent. But companies like Apple and PayPal really need to have fail-safe plans in place so that when things like this happens, they're able to keep their customers instead of scaring them away.
With $76 billion on hand, you'd think Apple would give this guy (and those who also faced this issue) a break.
This is a perfect xample of a little information being dangerous. Just so you know, every single time you swipe your card this could happen. At a brick and mortar Apple Store. At a grocery store. At Target. At the fast food place. At the library. Paying your phone bill. Eating at a restaurant. Your payment is handled by at least one intermediary, called a payment processor, and along with the company you're patronizing that makes 2-3 variables before it is even on Visa or MasterCard's network talking to your bank. Did you know that an "authorization" stays active for 6 months? Every single charge from $0.01 to infinity could be repeated 127 times by any entity where you have swiped. This is how credit and debit cards, as well as payment processors, work.
wow. do u work for eBay or PayPal or what??
PayPal TOS:
14.4 Improperly Filed Litigation. All claims you bring against PayPal must be resolved in accordance with Section 14 of this Agreement. All claims filed or brought contrary to Section 14 shall be considered improperly filed and a breach of this Agreement. Should you file a claim contrary to Section 14, PayPal may recover attorneys fees and costs (including in-house attorneys and paralegals) up to $1,000.00 USD, provided that PayPal has notified you in writing of the improperly filed claim, and you have failed to promptly withdraw the claim.
This means that if you file a lawsuit against PayPal without using PayPal's (rigged) "dispute" system, you owe them $1000. You might want to read the above excerpt again...it clearly states "attorney's fees and costs". As for automatic deduction, that is the basis for PayPal's existence! Do you not understand that they automatically deduct any fees that you owe them? That is how they do business! And it is clearly stated in the ToS.
So, to recap:
PayPal screws you.
You file a lawsuit against PayPal.
PayPal steals another $1000 from your account.
So don't suggest I read the ToS "for once", when you obviously can't comprehend what you read.
I see! I'm fairly young and therefore new to a lot of things concerning credit / debit card transactions, so I didn't consider that it was nearly (if not equally) dangerous when purchasing offline as it is online. However, nothing beats the 'ol dollar bill. But thanks for the clarification.
Interesting find. It's a shame how easily companies can slide these things into their ToS, as it's rare that anyone takes the time to read through them.
You assume it was Apple and not Paypal that had the issue. This guy apparently isn't the only person to have screw ups with Paypal. But where's the line of folks just using their credit cards etc. There's been perhaps 1 report.
Paypal has had issues on lots of sites, not just Apple. Enough that I can believe they need to do some work on their systems and perhaps this wasn't all Apple's fault
Are they still using that system where all returns/reverses go into your Paypal account and then you have to manually ask them to transfer it to your bank account (for a fee) to get it back.
Under normal circumstances yes. But this fellow was using a beta version of the software and who knows what muck ups that might cause.
Also, if the system had not yet successfully recorded the purchase due to more than normal server traffic, it's possible that one could hit and buy twice. My roommate just bought a computer last month and was able to get the free download code. When he went to redeem it on day one, it showed the code as used but the actual purchase didn't appear until an hour later. If he had been impatient and went and hit the Buy button assuming it would know he'd bought it like iOS apps used to, he would have likely been charged because his previous purchase was not yet confirmed. Something like that could have happened here with this fellow.
He wasn't using a credit card. He was using Paypal. And Paypal doesn't have that kind of alert system. Plus the banks are used to Paypal numerous balance checks to their systems so the initial hits wouldn't set off any flags. Then when the actual purchases were processed they could have been several minutes to even hours apart so no flags there.
One million downloads just of Lion on day one. Who knows how many since then. And perhaps 100 reports of things going wonk. Perhaps another 100 that no one is all over the boards about. And thousands of downloads from the various stores (which all use the same payment system) every day.*I'd say those numbers are pretty darn good. Probably better than many companies.
You were on one of their computers. Not buying directly from them. If that's the case then you should have been able to figure out what was going on. Someone else had been on those computers in the online store and had added something to the cart and the old cookie was being picked up. A simple reset of safari dumps that out and gives you a clean cart.
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Why didn't you post section 14 that it refers to? Because it's talking about the amount of money in dispute and how that changes what process they request you use. So in other words, exactly what I said. If you file an improper lawsuit—which costs them money—they get to try to get some of it back from you. But again, ANY COMPANY CAN DO THIS. They just don't have to tell you! Plus, they probably won't cap their legal fees at $1k!
No matter what you think of their dispute process (and clearly you, someone you know, or some internet strangers you've read have been on the non-winning side of the process, hence it's "RIGGED!!!1"), every user on the service should understand the user agreement and expect to be held to abide by it, i.e. if the rules state that for disputes less than $10k you have to go through the dispute process, you should expect to be treated fairly and equally. You think you are above legally-binding contracts or what? Go check out Amazon or Google's payments system; you'll have less protection (hardly any dispute process at all, they will tell you to call your merchant, your bank, or the police), and if you sue them, they can countersue you for legal fees just the same and they just don't need to tell you. And they haven't written their user agreements at an 8th grade reading level like PayPal has, so good luck figuring that out with your cherry-picking.
Hold on. I need a moment longer just to ponder how you think that you can breach a user agreement and PayPal wouldn't be entitled to sue you, YET that you can just sue whoever you want without any repercussions. Unfortunately, this isn't TV. Countersuits and suing for legal fees HAPPENS. You need to be an informed and critical consumer, whether or not you're sue-happy.
Furthermore, they can't automatically deduct anything without purchase authorization and settlement. This happened because what Apple repeatedly sent was THE PURCHASE AUTHORIZATION/SETTLEMENT. If your PayPal account goes negative for, say, stealing money from your grandma's checking account and buying a bunch of Ugg boots, they will make your PayPal account negative. They'll try to contact you, obviously, but they can't initiate a transaction with *your* credit card on the account without permission. But yes, if you go the next week and buy the newest Lady Gaga song on iTunes with your PayPal, they're going to charge your credit card $1000.99 to get that money back that you defrauded. I wish I could tell you how many people on these paypalsucks.com websites are actually ***** frauds and criminals that PayPal simply doesn't have the time, info, or resources to pursue. The kinds of people this article is about, those who by no fault of their own were overcharged, are different. They have a valid grievance, but it does not lie solely with PayPal.
Also, nope, I don't work for eBay or PayPal. I don't have the resumé to work there. I have worked in the financial sector, but never with any companies connected to eBay or PayPal.
The phrasing is kind of ambiguous here, so I will address both ways I could take this.
If something happens with a payment you've received (that isn't covered by seller protection) or money you've tried to put in your account or to pay for something with, then yes, your PayPal account goes negative. They'll alert you that it's negative and it'll stay negative until you try to resolve it or make another payment with PayPal.
For example, if you buy a snuggie, your wife sees the charge on your bank and she puts a stop payment, but PayPal has already paid the snuggie-seller (who has shipped out your snuggie, anyway). Who do you expect to eat the cost of your snuggie? Of course your account is going negative, because logic points to you buying something and then snatching the money back.
Now if you're asking whether or not the returned money from these overcharges goes back to PayPal, I would assume since they would go back to whatever funding source was used: from your bank account, then via EFT; from your credit/debit card, then via Visa/MC/whatever; from your PayPal account balance, then back to your PayPal account balance. This is usually how they do things. There are some weird cases where, if you double-pay for an item (and the seller refunds you manually) or you both pay for an item and add those funds to your PayPal account balance (single-pay but additional-deposit to PP), you'll have to choose to send those funds back to your bank account which takes 3-4 days. BUT this is NEVER charged for. You get charged for receiving money as non-personal payments (like taking a CC payment for your macaroni necklaces on eBay), not for refunds or simply sending money back to your bank.
Yes, credit cards do have fraud protection, and so does your bank. Guess what PayPal isn't? A credit card or a bank. They are a payment processor. They. Process. Payments. They can't protect you from vendors that overcharge you, terrible purchases that you make, or people who stole their grandma's credit card... and neither can any other payment processor.
If you were charged twice by Applebee's, would you call up their credit card processor ABC TeleServices, or would you call up Applebee's and your bank? Common sense FTW! I bet you said Applebee's and your bank.
Yet for some reason, people expect PayPal to work differently—and to be honest, over the years they've had to suck it up and begin to shepherd online users more and more. I've gotten credits for things that never came, I've been guaranteed satisfaction on eBay purchases, I've been refunded NSF fees for subscriptions I had forgotten about, and I have been protected when people bought from me with stolen credit cards. They didn't have to do any of that, but they did. PayPal and eBay have millions of transactions per day that they essentially insure not only for viability but even for total customer satisfaction, something you'd have to be paying an interest rate to American Express to get!
$122 and mortgage due?
If $122 is breaking you from paying the mortgage, then, you are not living within your means. I feel no pity for the fiscal stupidity for the "victim"of the story neglects to point out.
If $122 is breaking you from paying the mortgage, then, you are not living within your means. I feel no pity for the fiscal stupidity for the "victim"of the story neglects to point out.
First - you have a reading comprehension issue since he was charged 122 times. It wasn't $122
But regardless - that's none of your business WHAT his financial situation is or isn't. He was the victim in this scenario. Your lack of pity (and armchair financial advising) isn't even required.
Exactly
Anyways, what shocks me is the amount of money some leave in a checking account. It may just be me but I only leave some spending money in my checking and treat it like cash. All the other money goes into savings accounts, stocks, ira, mutual funds, etc.
I've never understood why people leave 15K in a checking account for an entire month only to use $2000 out of it! That is insane. Ok, maybe spontaneous purchases...That is only one click away to transfer some funds so you can go stimulate the economy.
Regarding PayPal, like everyone else has stated, I despise it as well. Unfortunately, it makes things "convenient" and somewhat "safe" when buying online. However, nothing is ever FAST with that company! I dread if I ever have to give them a ring.
How did you fare on the "reading comprehension" part of the exam?
Regardless, it is a shame, paypal takes forever to process ANYTHING! Withdrawls, returns, payments, etc, when you really need it. Now, if you have time to kill, then things go smooth with them.
My last hiccup with PayPal was just a few weeks ago when I sold my 67 camaro. I asked for a deposit to gauge someones interest. I got a deposit sent over and after the 3 day waiting period, when I should have been able to withdraw it from my bank, the e-check was denied. This happened twice and nearly lost me the sale.
PayPal, stepup! You are a million/billion dollar company. You can make things run a little more smoothly.
^^ I don't think there's any problem w/ my reading comprehension. I'm not the one who had such a woody to blame the customer that I failed to understand it wasn't $122, but rather being charged 122 times. It's just strange to me.