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This would only be true if all apps also continue to be offered in the App Store, which is very unlikely as companies like Epic will pay for exclusive deals. Apps you need that you can currently find in the App Store will move to different stores thereby forcing you to install those stores if you want to get them. Such app and payment method fragmentation is a net loss for iOS users in terms of security, discoverability and usability.
Well why wouldn’t they? Epic tried to remove their game from the play store and came crawling back because nobody cared to side load their game.

Users can simply stop using apps not available on the store and use competitive options. EA left steam for a while before they closed down their system and crawled back to steam because users like steam.

So apple just need to be confident in their store if it’s so good as they claim
 
Yes, it’s a good thing companies have control over their intellectual property as long as that control is legally used. (Sanctions)

And remember there is always a browser.
Sanctions aren’t forced. The us government haven’t forced us companies to do anything yet
 
Its not bias. It’s factual
In your opinion. The word "indicates" does not mean factual. It's an opinion based on events in 2018 not 2022.
100% if iPhones was designed like windows phoneOS it would be as dead even if it was more secure.

And I know not a single person who purchases a car according to the ability to change tiers or oil.
And I know of no one who purchases an iphone to sideload or use alternative app stores.
 
When people vote for them to stop.
But who voted for them to start? As far as I know, there is no voting going on whether for or against; it’s just government agencies acting out of self-interest/lobbies and/or without full understanding.

Unlikely, 0.6% of android users does this. Unless the iOS AppStore is so bad that people would flee in an instant.

And consumer can always chose to stay in the store, effectively forcing developers to have apps in the store, unless you believe app customer doesn’t care about apple security
From the amount of complaints I see from developers against Apple vs Google, I think many more will try to break free. This of course to the detriment of end users since Apple’s rules are for the most part in benefit of the user. Opening up iOS is only in the interest of developers/companies and I believe a tiny niche of tinkerer consumers.

If this goes through, yes consumers can try to get developers to continue making apps for the App Store but it will be a long and arduous battle and won’t be successful for every app. That’s why as a user I don’t want to go through that. And I believe most iPhone users don’t.
And as I’ve said before, using the “customer can vote with their dollar” argument shoots one’s self in the foot because that’s the very same argument for why consumers should be able to decide with their dollar whether iPhone should be open or closed, not letting largely autonomous government agencies decide.
 
It is their ip and seems like in court they aren't losing. Since Apple at this point is winning in the courts, governments are trying enact new legislations.
Well Apple doesn’t seem to provide convincing arguments, but show loopholes the government need to close. If apple was convincing in their argument as a good thing, the government wouldn’t feel the need to introduce new laws.
In your opinion. The word "indicates" does not mean factual. It's an opinion based on events in 2018 not 2022.
2018 isn’t any different from 2022. Apple products are vastly more expensive than the competitive who offers cheaper things. Owing a Mac or an iPhone is the same like owning a BMW or Gucci and Prada.
And I know of no one who purchases an iphone to sideload or use alternative app stores.
I introduce you the jailbreaking community since 2008
 
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But who voted for them to start? As far as I know, there is no voting going on whether for or against; it’s just government agencies acting out of self-interest/lobbies and/or without full understanding.
The people. Every party and representatives have different platforms and policies for how the market should be regulated. Same way people got free healthcare, higher taxes and free education and strong union laws. People voted for it untill they voted differently
From the amount of complaints I see from developers against Apple vs Google, I think many more will try to break free. This of course to the detriment of end users since Apple’s rules are for the most part in benefit of the user. Opening up iOS is only in the interest of developers/companies and I believe a tiny niche of tinkerer consumers.
Well perhaps apple/ google should try to fix these complaints. same way steam dominate Pc gaming for being a great service for developers and consumers. Many rules apple have have nothing to do with user security or safety and are just moral qualms, ideological and business related. Very little is user related outside of core parts.

The thing is opening up iOS are only bad if apple is incapable of providing a competitive platform.
If this goes through, yes consumers can try to get developers to continue making apps for the App Store but it will be a long and arduous battle and won’t be successful for every app. That’s why as a user I don’t want to go through that. And I believe most iPhone users don’t.
And as I’ve said before, using the “customer can vote with their dollar” argument shoots one’s self in the foot because that’s the very same argument for why consumers should be able to decide with their dollar whether iPhone should be open or closed, not letting largely autonomous government agencies decide.
Yes indeed that’s the same argument and it’s generally a bad argument , that is why the government exist to provide better options for people.

The difference is the practicality of “voting” with your money. Voting on 1.000$ phones when they do a couple bad things is extremely impractical, but voting with ~1$ For different Applications are much easier.

And if not you use political pressure to try to change the small part you dislike when no option exist
 
Well Apple doesn’t seem to provide convincing arguments, but show loopholes the government need to close. If apple was convincing in their argument as a good thing, the government wouldn’t feel the need to introduce new laws.
They convinced the courts they aren’t an illegal monopoly.
2018 isn’t any different from 2022.
Yes it is. For a multitude of reason.
Apple products are vastly more expensive than the competitive who offers cheaper things.
But dont do as much.
Owing a Mac or an iPhone is the same like owning a BMW or Gucci and Prada.
Or any other expensive phone around the same price range.
I introduce you the jailbreaking community since 2008
So it’s your opinion people buy an iPhone to jailbreak it…and no other reasons.
 
The people. Every party and representatives have different platforms and policies for how the market should be regulated. Same way people got free healthcare, higher taxes and free education and strong union laws. People voted for it untill they voted differently
Yes, people are theoretically ultimately responsible for their democratic government’s actions, but to say “the people” voted for this is imo a simplistic/idealistic view. At best the people enabled this, but even that is oversimplifying. Government is much more complex and dirtier than that. And the people’s calls to action (or reaction) are answered extremely slowly when the govenment’s money/existence is not on the line. But yes my hope is that even if this goes through, it will eventually be appealed by the people.

No time to respond to rest of your post at the moment, but thanks for engaging.
 
They convinced the courts they aren’t an illegal monopoly.
Nobody cares about the monopoly question as it’s self evident in UK. It’s all about market harm and abuse. In the UK a firm is said to have monopoly power if it has more than 25% of the market share.
Yes it is. For a multitude of reason.
When it comes to apple products? Nothing has changed. They are just as expensive as 10 years ago. And still the same status symbol and prestige
But dont do as much.
They do 99% the same. Battery life, screen size, processor, storage and camera is the biggest costs
Or any other expensive phone around the same price range.
That looks like any other cheap android phone. iPhones are recognizable as any other expensive brands for those who care about status.
So it’s your opinion people buy an iPhone to jailbreak it…and no other reasons.
No, but a lot of people buy it and wants to side load by jailbreaking it. But doesn’t buy an android phone.
 
Yes, people are theoretically ultimately responsible for their democratic government’s actions, but to say “the people” voted for this is imo a simplistic/idealistic view. At best the people enabled this, but even that is oversimplifying. Government is much more complex and dirtier than that. And the people’s calls to action (or reaction) are answered extremely slowly when the govenment’s money/existence is not on the line. But yes my hope is that even if this goes through, it will eventually be appealed by the people.

No time to respond to rest of your post at the moment, but thanks for engaging.
It could be social differences, but generally people have big influences for government policies compared to the states.

USA was designed to be hard to change or influence. This is not the case for UK and other EU states.

And it’s unlikely to be appealed by the people as it’s what they wanted. Just as with brexit, irrespective of the results
 
Nobody cares about the monopoly question as it’s self evident in UK. It’s all about market harm and abuse. In the UK a firm is said to have monopoly power if it has more than 25% of the market share.
Many care about a monopoly question. The UK needs to get its house in order. A company that sells pet rocks that has a 100% share can be a monopoly? :rolleyes:
When it comes to apple products? Nothing has changed. They are just as expensive as 10 years ago. And still the same status symbol and prestige
Same old meme is being run around the internet.
They do 99% the same. Battery life, screen size, processor, storage and camera is the biggest costs
They still don't do as much, nor is their continuous support lifespan as much as an iphone. Do you compare a civic with an s-class and say: 4 tires, steering wheel and engine? Is that the lowest common denominator for your comparison.
That looks like any other cheap android phone. iPhones are recognizable as any other expensive brands for those who care about status.
The notch is what makes iphones recognizable. If you hang around with those who view material possessions are their definition I can see where one could walk away with the iphones being a status symbol. For the rest of, imo, it's because of the way they function and the job they do...as well as their sharp looks.
No, but a lot of people buy it and wants to side load by jailbreaking it. But doesn’t buy an android phone.
But jailbreaking isn't the reason people buy an iphone. Maybe there is agreement on that.
 
Many care about a monopoly question. The UK needs to get its house in order. A company that sells pet rocks that has a 100% share can be a monopoly? :rolleyes:
It’s weird to care about it when it’s a non issue. A company having 25%+ is legally defined as having monopolistic power. You not liking it doesn’t change the law that have existed for decades
They still don't do as much, nor is their continuous support lifespan as much as an iphone. Do you compare a civic with an s-class and say: 4 tires, steering wheel and engine? Is that the lowest common denominator for your comparison.
That is why the more expensive thing has more features. I’n the end of the day the civic and s-class are cars to transport you from A->B. A nicer car is a bigger status symbol.
The notch is what makes iphones recognizable. If you hang around with those who view material possessions are their definition I can see where one could walk away with the iphones being a status symbol. For the rest of, imo, it's because of the way they function and the job they do...as well as their sharp looks.
End of the day it’s still a phone. 99% of people don’t need anything better than iPhone SE or iPhone X features. All the bells and whistles are just nice to have luxury
But jailbreaking isn't the reason people buy an iphone. Maybe there is agreement on that.
We can agree on that. Still they buy the iPhone with the intent to jailbreak it because they want to do things apple prevents.
 
It’s weird to care about it when it’s a non issue. A company having 25%+ is legally defined as having monopolistic power. You not liking it doesn’t change the law that have existed for decades
It's a weird definition of monopoly. 4 companies enter a market each with a 25% share and it's a monopoly? Strange laws from overseas.
That is why the more expensive thing has more features. I’n the end of the day the civic and s-class are cars to transport you from A->B. A nicer car is a bigger status symbol.
A more expensive vehicle also has more protection features for example; a bigger engine, nicer interior etc. Pay more get more. And sure to minimize this, it's still just a car, like a 1979 Pinto is still a car.
End of the day it’s still a phone. 99% of people don’t need anything better than iPhone SE or iPhone X features. All the bells and whistles are just nice to have luxury
Not sure how you can speak for the 1 billion iphone users. You certainly can't speak for me.
We can agree on that. Still they buy the iPhone with the intent to jailbreak it because they want to do things apple prevents.
Sure and that is why android is rooted, companies produce third party ecus to squeeze more performance out of a car, etc.
 
According to a report by Google barely 0.6% of Android users (which is admittedly a few million users) bothered to side load and 90+% of app installs are from the play store, even with Chinese OEMs and Samsung running their own storefronts.

The point is powers that be seem to think there is a usage case for opening up iOS along the same lines but honestly not even Android users bother to use the facility so why even bother? Who here has ever honestly looked at the price of an app and gone “I wish I could download it from another storefront.”?
In countries like India, many people do not even login to their phones with a gmail. They do not use Playstore. They go to their friends and ask them top Bluetooth the apks of apps because all of them will have the apks. I was surprised when he asked me to transfer the apk of some app that I showed him. I told him I got it from the Playstore. He did not understand the concept of the playstore at all. THEY ONLY SIDELOAD. Google may not even know these guys are there as they do not sign in.
 
I hope you guys understand this is not really about Apple or IOS its about governments ability to grab data from devices that are currently locked out for them. Sideloading gives them the ability to compromise Apple devices much easier. This has nothing to do with consumers.
Do you really think Apple will even blink once while handing over your data to the government if the government asks for it? We have all seen how it bends over backwards in China. At least, Google had the guts to leave China instead of bowing to the Chinese government.
 
iOS won’t be less safe for you because I can side load.
If your device is comprimised by a dodgy side-loaded app. And your phone contains sensitive information of any description e.g. Contacts, conversations, anniversary reminders, photos, videos etc ...of anyone else, you have also compromised their data.

It's a bit like driving a car with bald tires and saying "I'm willing to take the risk".
 
In countries like India, many people do not even login to their phones with a gmail. They do not use Playstore. They go to their friends and ask them top Bluetooth the apks of apps because all of them will have the apks. I was surprised when he asked me to transfer the apk of some app that I showed him. I told him I got it from the Playstore. He did not understand the concept of the playstore at all. THEY ONLY SIDELOAD. Google may not even know these guys are there as they do not sign in.

Yes. Piracy is a problem and should be fought. But the solution is not allowing the ability of some company do to their customers and partners what they did to Russian iPhone owners and iOS developers overnight ... over a billion others. Overnight they unilaterally crippled third party private property, devices, digital services and software.

Such power will simply not be allowed in the EU.

Yes Apple is entitled to stop serving customers … but it’s not entitled to devalue customers or partners properties out of a disagreement. That only courts can do in a democracy.

What will happen when we get smart cars? What about smart houses? What about … Wake up!

Apple policies in iOS are a slippery slope inspite of their potentially best intentions. It’s just common sense.

MacOS approach is quite well balanced. Is for me the most secured consumer OS on the planet.

If iOS policies were already in macOS as Greg Federighi is campaigning for … Russian developers using Macs, from the Mini to the Mac Pro, from Air to MBP would be in deep trouble. Imagine entire research facilities, hospitals … equipped with these tools. People say that smartphones are granted tighter security measures … I agree … that is not what I see currently. What I see is something similar to a Trojan Horse hiding extremely powerful mechanisms of control over people and business properties with the potential of being scaled to everything … Just not long ago, our MacOS systems got a massive slow down opening any kind of app due to some Apple digital services, funny enough secure certificates servers were malfunctioning … any App being opened were calling “Apple” to get permissions to run … supposedly all to protect us … I did not knew that,
did you? Now iOS web proxy’s are optional … what happens when it is not? From time to time Apple power over our devices shows between the cracks of practice.

We are witnessing the initial stages of the build up of a dystopia in my opinion. Not just Apple alone. Facebook and Google too. Microsoft and Amazon seam to be behaving differently for the moment but who knows … without regulation all this and much more is possible.

PS: Apple business practices regarding iOS or any other company with practices alike aiming the same kind of control should be regulated.
 
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It's a weird definition of monopoly. 4 companies enter a market each with a 25% share and it's a monopoly? Strange laws from overseas.
Sure. But it’s likely based on real data, considering it’s rare for anything to get 100%, and is more valuable to have legal frameworks getting in to effect before this is reached to limit harm. Perhaps why many nations doesn’t have laws saying monopoly is illegal or classify it as sim with 100% or close to 100%. UK 25% as their limit, EU Have 0% legally speaking as it’s not defined but practically is around 30-40%
A more expensive vehicle also has more protection features for example; a bigger engine, nicer interior etc. Pay more get more. And sure to minimize this, it's still just a car, like a 1979 Pinto is still a car.
As I said, it’s luxurious things, it provide a higher status.
Not sure how you can speak for the 1 billion iphone users. You certainly can't speak for me.
I can, just because you don’t need anything more advanced doesn’t invalidate the nice to have features, practicality and the want to have a luxurious phones with premium quality and feeling. But don’t pretend it’s anything more than it actually is.
Sure and that is why android is rooted, companies produce third party ecus to squeeze more performance out of a car, etc.
Almost no android phone is sold rooted today, and many are just as hard to root as iPhones out of the box. This is an old reality.
If your device is comprimised by a dodgy side-loaded app. And your phone contains sensitive information of any description e.g. Contacts, conversations, anniversary reminders, photos, videos etc ...of anyone else, you have also compromised their data.

It's a bit like driving a car with bald tires and saying "I'm willing to take the risk".
I can guarantee you it’s more likely that you compromise your Facebook, email account, computer, fake website, social engineering scam or even klick a phishing link that will compromise my personal information way before your phone installed a compromised app.

But you don’t walk around demanding people stop using Facebook or computer to prevent random citizens leaking data related to you
 
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So… what is apple afraid of them? Losing 0.6% of users?
Yes, but this is also about the bigger picture.

If we look at the court data from Epic vs Apple mobile Fortnite revenue accounts for less than 6% whereas consoles were 80% and of that 80%, half was to Sony. Epic 'lost' more money in store fees to Sony than it ever did to Apple. So why sue them?

Apple are the biggest company and the court case would generate the most buzz. Epic doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds it but if it could get Apple to capitulate on store fees, Sony etc would have to drop theirs as well and it would cascade over every digital storefront.

Apple is in the same boat. If it lets that 0.6% sideload (which is still hundreds of millions of users) it cascades.

The bigger risk of sideloading on iOS is piracy. There are loads of great premium games and apps on iOS that never see the light of day on Android because of piracy risks. You up that risk and the premium games all go to Apple Arcade, Apple up the sub cost and we get a glut of F2P games and apps looking for their own subs in their place.
 
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