Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Comments on Microsoft's Laptop Hunter Ads
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
actually he said that it worked. just that he needed some time to do it. and didn´t need that time on the other machine. might be subjective or just a coincidence. but besides stating that there is a difference in the time invested he clearly said both worked. only that one annoyed himI think this is the only spot where you and I disagree.
I can't fathom a day when 9" or 10" netbooks will be the *primary* laptop in a house or business. It's like when in the 80s Texas Instruments tried to sell a watch that had a tv. Cool...but has its functional limit.
I see a day when almost every individual owns multiple "computers". A family of 5 is a great example...the family owns 1-2 normal/high powered machines. Everyone ALSO has their own netbook that they use for surfing and lightweight usage and short intervals (can you imagine staring at a 9" screen for more than 45 mins?).
Think of all the iPods out there...as far back as the 1st generation....people still need home stereos...still need car stereos...still like their portable radios. The iPod in effect is a stereo but obviously lacks speakers and other external factors.
Just like almost everyone on the planet who owns an iPod also has a stereo somewhere in their life...my vision is that everyone who owns a netbook will also have access to a more powerful machine.
Yes, maybe a Super Touch will come from Apple...I would definitely look at it, however, I've already bought a netbook (sorry Apple). I looked hard at the iTouch in Spring and Fall of 2008 but I just wasn't happy with the amount of money it costs AND WHAT I NEEDED it to do. Again, very cool unit but eh, it wasn't my cup of soup for that amount of money. Then along came these super cheap netbooks which did everything I wanted and blew me away on the size, portability, quietness, etc. of what netbooks are. I bought one and love it. Months later I am still stunned at how awesome this netbook is. I'm bringing it with me on vacation to check a few emails rather than bring my wife's Blackberry...and rather than my company's $3000 laptop.
Your logic is quite interesting. Nearly all gaming on the Mac is done under Windows. You can install a Windows-only graphics card in a Mac Pro and then use it when you boot into Windows. Is that surprising?
My bad.
Sorry. However, I would be super angry if this happened to me...and after about 30 mins I would have given up, packed it up, and brought it back and demanded an exchange or different model.
See, you're proving the point. The problem isn't OS X. It's that some of you are so Windows-centric, you expect the rest of the computing world to do things your way otherwise you whine endlessly about it. You PC users are the American tourists of the computing world. "WHAT? You eat snails?! Ewww... gross! Where's the @#$%&* McDonalds?"
Next time, try holding down Apple+V or Apple+S at startup (and I leave the discovery of the exact nature of those startup options as an exercise to you in the hopes that you overcome this apparent unwillingness to learn new things.) And if that's too damn difficult, try booting off a CD. You can launch the Console from the CD.
Just like I said, the info is there, but you have to know where to look. It's a Mac so it's going to be different from a PC. Why anyone would expect it to behave like a PC is beyond simple logic.
Oh and FWIW, I've seen plenty of blue screens at startup on PCs that either don't provide a shred of info about what happened or actually display information that is misleading. That spill of white-on-blue text isn't the be-all end-all you seem to think it is.
@ericinboston
yes the netbook part is right but my point was that most people will use them as their only computer.I think this is the only spot where you and I disagree.
I can't fathom a day when 9" or 10" netbooks will be the *primary* laptop in a house or business. It's like when in the 80s Texas Instruments tried to sell a watch that had a tv. Cool...but has its functional limit.
I see a day when almost every individual owns multiple "computers". A family of 5 is a great example...the family owns 1-2 normal/high powered machines. Everyone ALSO has their own netbook that they use for surfing and lightweight usage and short intervals (can you imagine staring at a 9" screen for more than 45 mins?).
Think of all the iPods out there...as far back as the 1st generation....people still need home stereos...still need car stereos...still like their portable radios. The iPod in effect is a stereo but obviously lacks speakers and other external factors.
Just like almost everyone on the planet who owns an iPod also has a stereo somewhere in their life...my vision is that everyone who owns a netbook will also have access to a more powerful machine.
Yes, maybe a Super Touch will come from Apple...I would definitely look at it, however, I've already bought a netbook (sorry Apple). I looked hard at the iTouch in Spring and Fall of 2008 but I just wasn't happy with the amount of money it costs AND WHAT I NEEDED it to do. Again, very cool unit but eh, it wasn't my cup of soup for that amount of money. Then along came these super cheap netbooks which did everything I wanted and blew me away on the size, portability, quietness, etc. of what netbooks are. I bought one and love it. Months later I am still stunned at how awesome this netbook is. I'm bringing it with me on vacation to check a few emails rather than bring my wife's Blackberry...and rather than my company's $3000 laptop.
i never meant that any business would adobt netbooks as primary or secondary systems. but for many many (if not the most privately used computers) that netbook/top ist more than enough. i´m not talking about gamers, pro work or persons who do have multiple machines anyway. but about the masses whose gaming habit maxes out at online flash games and their private work investment ends at writing simple documents. those people propably work all day and don´t want to sit in front of the computer for longer than an hour either way. and i think the windows/ubuntu netbook sales numbers reflect that pretty well. this sure does not count towards geeks or people who want to do more. but they can get what they want either way. my dream vacation machine still stays my touch though. since i don´t do work when i´m on vacation
I already lived in Europe before this problem
There was no defective component here to speak of. The point is that with all my knowledge of computers and operating systems, I couldn't get the bleeding VISTA to configure in such a way that it would connect to my home network. My XP pc did so perfectly. It was an OS problem. Or better said: the OS lost from XP to VISTA some of the intuitiveness (if there was any in XP) in the configuration.
I personally got fed up so much with this ridiculous amount of configuring and tweaking (without any logic to it. It was just trial and error with VISTA) that I decided to sell the bugger and try another OS. Going back to XP was not an option, and I was just not in the mood for experimenting with Linux or whatever on the VAIO.
I guess I'm one of these people that just wants to turn on his computer and have it working. I also earn enough money to buy an MBP and see if it works for me. I guess I'm lucky in that respect.
The experience of turnign the MBP on for the first time was great:
- It asks which network is mine and configures it automatically
- It also conigured my iTunes stuff automatically by asking my user name etc
- Installing and removing programmes is so much easier
What I personally like about OS X and APPLE is that they think about convergence and about the whle experience. With VISTA and also XP, I have always had the impression that it is a patchwork of small separately developed applications working together under the moniker "WINDOWS", but that not a lot of thought had been put into how all these little applications work and function together.
That's where OS X makes the difference. Just look at the integration of the iPhone with the Apple TV, iTunes and Keynote. I know these are all separate programs and hardware, but it nicely points out how APPLE thinks beyond the boundaries of their programs, and how a connection between these programs and hardware increases the value for the user. Each piece of hardware that I buy from Apple increases the usability of the whole hardware set I have at home. With APPLE the total is more than the sum of its parts.
yes the netbook part is right but my point was that most people will use them as their only computer.
i never meant that any business would adobt netbooks as primary or secondary systems. but for many many (if not the most privately used computers) that netbook/top ist more than enough. i´m not talking about gamers, pro work or persons who do have multiple machines anyway. but about the masses whose gaming habit maxes out at online flash games and their private work investment ends at writing simple documents. those people propably work all day and don´t want to sit in front of the computer for longer than an hour either way. and i think the windows/ubuntu netbook sales numbers reflect that pretty well. this sure does not count towards geeks or people who want to do more. but they can get what they want either way. my dream vacation machine still stays my touch though. since i don´t do work when i´m on vacation
I hear ya...not sure if I totally agree...I disagree that the netbooks will be "enough" for a lot of people who do not sit in front of a computer all day. For example, my dad. The 9" screen would drive him nuts. The usefullness of the entire experience to download pix from his camera, organize them on his pc, etc. would probably be not the best experience. Reading his realtor paperwork before printing would be tough on the eyes.
I guess we'll find out 1-2 years from now who is using the netbooks and if they are the sole machine in the house.
OS X "Clone"
Earlier in the thread some were discussing EFI-X. I have a friend who owns a single core PowerMac G5 and he can't afford a Mac Pro. He does a lot of Final Cut work and needs a speed boost. I told him an iMac would be faster than what he currently has but a Mac Pro would probably be better for his needs. He simply can not afford $2500+. I mentioned an alternative, installing OS X on a Windows based system using x86/EFI-X. I also mentioned Pystar, which as I no longer live in NYC I can not be there to do the work for him.
My question is, if he were to consider a Pystar system (which I realize is a gamble as they are currently in court), do they allow software updates from Apple? I realize OS X Leopard comes preinstalled but my concern is if he were to update the system will it break the EFI-X? I checked Pystar's site and couldn't find anything. Thanks!
Earlier in the thread some were discussing EFI-X. I have a friend who owns a single core PowerMac G5 and he can't afford a Mac Pro. He does a lot of Final Cut work and needs a speed boost. I told him an iMac would be faster than what he currently has but a Mac Pro would probably be better for his needs. He simply can not afford $2500+. I mentioned an alternative, installing OS X on a Windows based system using x86/EFI-X. I also mentioned Pystar, which as I no longer live in NYC I can not be there to do the work for him.
My question is, if he were to consider a Pystar system (which I realize is a gamble as they are currently in court), do they allow software updates from Apple? I realize OS X Leopard comes preinstalled but my concern is if he were to update the system will it break the EFI-X? I checked Pystar's site and couldn't find anything. Thanks!
I already lived in Europe before this problem
There was no defective component here to speak of. The point is that with all my knowledge of computers and operating systems, I couldn't get the bleeding VISTA to configure in such a way that it would connect to my home network. My XP pc did so perfectly. It was an OS problem. Or better said: the OS lost from XP to VISTA some of the intuitiveness (if there was any in XP) in the configuration.
I personally got fed up so much with this ridiculous amount of configuring and tweaking (without any logic to it. It was just trial and error with VISTA) that I decided to sell the bugger and try another OS. Going back to XP was not an option, and I was just not in the mood for experimenting with Linux or whatever on the VAIO.
I guess I'm one of these people that just wants to turn on his computer and have it working. I also earn enough money to buy an MBP and see if it works for me. I guess I'm lucky in that respect.
The experience of turnign the MBP on for the first time was great:
- It asks which network is mine and configures it automatically
- It also conigured my iTunes stuff automatically by asking my user name etc
- Installing and removing programmes is so much easier
What I personally like about OS X and APPLE is that they think about convergence and about the whle experience. With VISTA and also XP, I have always had the impression that it is a patchwork of small separately developed applications working together under the moniker "WINDOWS", but that not a lot of thought had been put into how all these little applications work and function together.
That's where OS X makes the difference. Just look at the integration of the iPhone with the Apple TV, iTunes and Keynote. I know these are all separate programs and hardware, but it nicely points out how APPLE thinks beyond the boundaries of their programs, and how a connection between these programs and hardware increases the value for the user. Each piece of hardware that I buy from Apple increases the usability of the whole hardware set I have at home. With APPLE the total is more than the sum of its parts.
Without a doubt the most intelligently (and grammatically) well written summation of Apple's system. Windows is not a terrible Operating System, however Apple analyzes the end user experience with all their hardware and software in order to deliver an optimal experience for its clients. In short, everything does work well together. Perhaps it is a closed environment, yet this is what makes Apple shine. While I certainly take issue with Apple's lack of a mid-range desktop system (hence my question below regarding EFI-X), the "Apple tax" that has been suggested may be attributed to the research and design in Apple's hardware/software integration. Apple designs independent hardware that works seamlessly with OS X - the AppleTV, iPod, Time Capsule - so much so that the most work required from a client is to plug it in and turn it on (with the exception of setting network information for routers). Even the routers do not require port mapping to get audio/video data transferring set up for most applications (do not get me started on Linksys or Netgear or Belkin, just a pain the arse). Microsoft builds software for OEM and other machines, but they certainly do not attest to a better end user experience with hardware integration. Again, having limited choice in Apple hardware with regards to a mid level desktop system is a price to pay, however when a portable processor on an iMac works just as well as a desktop processor in a Windows OS desktop, it begs the question: do average consumers really need a big, clunky machine with tons of wires that runs as well as an iMac and that in two-three years will need upgrading any ways sitting in their office? Most would agree they do not. Besides, as previously discussed, with more choices given to people the LESS apt the general consumer is at making the right choice. Most consumers do not know (or care to know) the difference between DDR2 and DDR3, Server and Desktop processors, FireWire 400 and 800 - they just want it to perform well. In this Apple succeeds.
Best of both worlds.
I have however heard users wanting to buy a Mac simply for the design, and then run ONLY windows on it, and never venture into the Mac OS X side.
At that point, you should just buy a Dell/HP/Sony/etc.
I plan on getting that Mac Pro with Windows 7 on it so I can actually play those few games that interest me when they actually come out. Like Red Alert which JUST FINALLY CAME OUT FOR THE MAC after 6 months or more on the PC side. And I don't know if we'll ever see the Tiberium Wars expansion pack..... EVER.
Other than that it's the Mac side for everything else.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11a Safari/525.20)
The first part of the comment was smart. The second... not so much. He makes it sound as though that's all the Mac has going for it.
The first part of the comment was smart. The second... not so much. He makes it sound as though that's all the Mac has going for it.
I already lived in Europe before this problem
What I personally like about OS X and APPLE is that they think about convergence and about the whle experience. With VISTA and also XP, I have always had the impression that it is a patchwork of small separately developed applications working together under the moniker "WINDOWS", but that not a lot of thought had been put into how all these little applications work and function together.
That's where OS X makes the difference. Just look at the integration of the iPhone with the Apple TV, iTunes and Keynote. I know these are all separate programs and hardware, but it nicely points out how APPLE thinks beyond the boundaries of their programs, and how a connection between these programs and hardware increases the value for the user. Each piece of hardware that I buy from Apple increases the usability of the whole hardware set I have at home. With APPLE the total is more than the sum of its parts.
Well, I guess I have to agree with the majority of humans on this planet that Vista was a bad release (but I hear the installations of it since late 2008 are quite nice). I don't use it. Never have. Never will. I love XP.
I agree that Macs do have a more integrated experience all around...but really the reason for that is Apple owns the whole kit and kaboodle...the hardware, the OS, most of the apps. Then factor in that no vendors (yet) are suing Apple for a monopoly (like MS' suits for the OS and later the browser). Apple's "black box" design is both good and bad on many levels...and I don't think we want to spend days discussing it.
Personally I don't see the difference (big or small) of said integration. I use a Mini and tons of pcs...they differ slightly on navigating around but there's nothing popping up in my head that says "wow, it takes me 17 mouseclicks on XP and only 2 in OSX". But, again, every person uses a computer differently. I don't use photo apps or movie stuff or iTunes. I use MS Office, development tools, email, VMWare, and sound/music tools.
I don't have an answer for everything. All I can say is that I have had more good experiences than bad in pc land. You bought a Sony...to me, I would never have bought a Sony "computer" because Sony, to me, is not a computer company. Anyone can plop Windows on a hard drive and sell it. Although you blame Vista, there is still a good chance that Sony just did a TERRIBLE job in QA...you should have been able to power up that thing and instantly connect to an open wireless network. I 100% agree. Sony should have made that user experience 100% guaranteed.
I will add 1 last point...I bought a Mac Mini in 2004...after 2 days of it constantly disconnecting from my home network (unlike my Tivo or wife's Win2000 laptop or my XP Home desktop or my XP Pro work laptop) I packed it up and took it back to Apple. I was ripping mad and also very disappointed that such a cool, sexy machine was utterly useless. I stated up front that I was not going to pay the 15% restocking fee since it was "defective" in my eyes...I think the manager saw the anger in my eyes.
I then kept my money and didn't buy another machine. That tells you something...that I was willing to plop down hundreds of bucks for a toy and be persuaded by Apple to make a move to the "side" that constantly advertises that "it just works"...total disappointment. I didn't need it (or a replacement). But as a consumer, toy or necessity, I ain't gonna keep something that is busted.I hear ya...not sure if I totally agree...I disagree that the netbooks will be "enough" for a lot of people who do not sit in front of a computer all day. For example, my dad. The 9" screen would drive him nuts. The usefullness of the entire experience to download pix from his camera, organize them on his pc, etc. would probably be not the best experience. Reading his realtor paperwork before printing would be tough on the eyes.
I guess we'll find out 1-2 years from now who is using the netbooks and if they are the sole machine in the house.
Well, the only gripe i see people have with 10" and smaller netbooks is the screen resolution. Not being able to display certain windows and run certain apps that require a specific screen resolution.
If better res screens are available that would fix a few problems.
It sux to have to set your screen res to the required res but finding that the screens boundary has extended beyond your physical screen. Then you have to use your mouse to shift the screen around to view the extra sections.
"its still a hyundai" >> this says you cant see past a brand name
you realize hyundai has manufactured the largest super oil tanker in the world? what has bmw done on that kind of scale? cars are peanuts compared to this thing.
well lets look at he raw stats...
people think hyundai are, cheap, unrealiable, underpowered, handles like crap, cant brake, etc, etc
well lets see
doesnt look like crap to me (ive sat in one, the knobs and buttons dont feel like cheap crap to me, they click the same as a vw)
cheap? yep, they are cheap less than $30K for a TOP of the line fully loaded all option genesis coupe
under powered? 306HP is underpowered? the power to weight ratio is 11.08lbs/HP (that beats a mercedes SLK350 and that car is $63 000)
handles like crap? nope, not even close, the GT tuned model slaloms at over 68.2mph and does 0.88g in the skid (this is faster than a corvette z06 from 2005)
cant brake? with 13.5" 4 piston brembo calipers and discs... yes it can brake, 60-0 in 112ft
unreliable? according to JD power hyundai is MORE reliable than BMW (hyundais warranty is also DOUBLE BMWs)
LOL is that a joke?
that just shows how underpar OSX is for scaleability.
with OSX is doesnt "JUST WORK"
My Dell Mini9 works just fine...I don't have that screen problem you describe.
Again, use it for what it's intended...
I agree that higher screen resolutions would be nice...but again, the netbooks (at least for now) are not aimed at people staring at them for hours on end. 1024x800 is pretty good in my opinion for a 9" screen. You can always buy a 10" or 11" netbook if you need a larger/better display.
umm what about the 100+ other operating systems that "PC" can run, including OSX.
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=143973
Macs are PCs did you forget that? both of them are based off x86 now, you fanboys are hilarious. you know ubuntu slaughters OSX for visual aesthetics.
but in the end your right, OSX is pretty terrible too, cant even cut in paste in finder, i sware even OS/2 could cut and paste.
My Dell Mini9 works just fine...I don't have that screen problem you describe.
Again, use it for what it's intended...
I agree that higher screen resolutions would be nice...but again, the netbooks (at least for now) are not aimed at people staring at them for hours on end. 1024x800 is pretty good in my opinion for a 9" screen. You can always buy a 10" or 11" netbook if you need a larger/better display.
but according to SolRayz your "PC" is NO BARGIN!! even at $280
jippieh. now we´ve moved from car analogies to ships ? on a sidenote i think that a thing like that might be nice from the engineering standpoint it still is pure horror on open seas. but who needs a world when we can have computers