Apple Comments on Microsoft's Laptop Hunter Ads

[djellison]

"A PC is no bargain when it doesn't do what you want"

But that's the thing. A £300 laptop does everything the average family needs, perfectly well.

 

[Eidorian]

For those of us who have no idea why this idea isn't decent could you please explain?

Compatibility is a mess that might leave you unable to boot into OS X without removing the other card. Even then you might have to swap around the video cable since OS X will default to stock video card.

I don't want to be the one swapping video cables or removing a card each time I want to reboot my system into another OS.

So no, it doesn't just work dropping in a secondary Windows-only card unless you plan on just running Windows and hoping you can get back into OS X. It can be tough finding the right display with multiple digital inputs.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Please tell me you've done some research into this.

PCIe slots 1 and 2 are x16.

Slots 3 and 4 are x4.

As long as there's actual physical room (i.e. some cards have huge heatsinks) why on earth wouldn't that work?

Update:

Compatibility is a mess that might leave you unable to boot into OS X without removing the other card. Even then you might have to swap around the video cable since OS X will default to stock video card.

I don't want to be the one swapping video cables or removing a card each time I want to reboot my system into another OS.

So no, it doesn't just work dropping in a secondary Windows-only card unless you plan on just running Windows and hoping you can get back into OS X. It can be tough finding the right display with multiple digital inputs.

I was always under the impression that both OS's allow you to select which card you want to use, in effect "turning the other off". Even if the other one isn't Windows/Mac compatible it wouldn't matter because the appropriate card could be set to default.

Wow this is really getting into some swampy territory.

 

[Eidorian]

PCIe slots 1 and 2 are x16.

Slots 3 and 4 are x4.

As long as there's actual physical room (i.e. some cards have huge heatsinks) why on earth wouldn't that work?

40 PCI-Express 2.0 lanes are available and can be controlled somewhat using the Expansion Slot Utility.

All four slots are mechanically/physically 16 lanes though and the chassis can accept a full length card. What's the point of this information though?

 

[Goona]

Apple should be responding with things like this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10222213-37.html

 

[Sehnsucht]

40 PCI-Express 2.0 lanes are available and can be controlled somewhat using the Expansion Slot Utility.

All four slots are mechanically/physically 16 lanes though and the chassis can accept a full length card. What's the point of this information though?

Had to make sure Apple wasn't using some weird, non-standard voltages or something else that would create compatibility issues with other graphics cards. I admit it, I don't know a whole lot about this...apparently it's not as straightforward as it seems.

 

[NT1440]

Apple should be doing responding using things like this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10222213-37.html

Surely that just proves we are all brainwashed fanboys the second you buy an apple product though right?

Right!?

 

[Eidorian]

Had to make sure Apple wasn't using some weird, non-standard voltages or something else that would create compatibility issues with other graphics cards. I admit it, I don't know a whole lot about this...apparently it's not as straightforward as it seems.

PCI-Express 2.0 is backward compatible with 1.1 and 1.0. The signaling will still be limited by your slowest link in the chain though. Be it the chipset and motherboard or the video card itself.

 

[ericinboston]

Apple should be responding with things like this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10222213-37.html

Agreed...however, I would have expected MUCH HIGHER ratings from Apple since they own the hardware, OS, and very likely the apps people are calling in for help.

80% is pretty sad (in my opinion) for a company who makes the whole darn thing...and for a company who claims "it just works"...well, it doesn't work (obviously) and if 20% of your upset customers still give you a bad grade on the tech support call, that's even more an embarrassment.

Although I feel all computer companies pretty much stink at Tech Support, the PC vendors of the world rarely get good ratings because each vendor (Dell, HP, whoever) may only "support" certain items. Of course you can pay for additional "coverage" like Microsoft Office tech support through Dell. But overall nobody is going to spend a lot of time trying to help you. Great example: My dad called Comcast the other night because his MS Outlook was failing to send a message. Comcast immediately told him to call Microsoft. I'm surprised Comcast didn't tell him to call Dell.

It's usually just a finger pointing game. I'm a techie and I hate calling any tech support because I am keenly aware of their inabilities.

Anyway, the Support business is a tough business to make friends and get good marks...people are calling in mad (do you ever call Tech Support happy?) and there's a 30% chance (or higher) that at the end of the call the end user is unhappy about what the fix was (deleting something, losing data, reinstalling, long hold times, long time to fix, dropped call, uninstalling/disabling something else to fix the initial problem, bring the computer in, send out a tech rep to replace a part, etc). So when they get that wonderful "would you like to participate in a survey?" from Biff the Sr. Tech Lead (who likely can't deduce why his Christmas tree lights aren't on), the end user is foaming at the mouth ready to give a nasty review.

-Eric

 

[Goona]

Agreed...however, I would have expected MUCH HIGHER ratings from Apple since they own the hardware, OS, and very likely the apps people are calling in for help.

80% is pretty sad (in my opinion) for a company who makes the whole darn thing...and for a company who claims "it just works"...well, it doesn't work (obviously) and if 20% of your upset customers still give you a bad grade on the tech support call, that's even more an embarrassment.

Although I feel all computer companies pretty much stink at Tech Support, the PC vendors of the world rarely get good ratings because each vendor (Dell, HP, whoever) may only "support" certain items. Of course you can pay for additional "coverage" like Microsoft Office tech support through Dell. But overall nobody is going to spend a lot of time trying to help you. Great example: My dad called Comcast the other night because his MS Outlook was failing to send a message. Comcast immediately told him to call Microsoft. I'm surprised Comcast didn't tell him to call Dell.

It's usually just a finger pointing game. I'm a techie and I hate calling any tech support because I am keenly aware of their inabilities.

Anyway, the Support business is a tough business to make friends and get good marks...people are calling in mad (do you ever call Tech Support happy?) and there's a 30% chance (or higher) that at the end of the call the end user is unhappy about what the fix was (deleting something, losing data, reinstalling, long hold times, long time to fix, dropped call, uninstalling/disabling something else to fix the initial problem, bring the computer in, send out a tech rep to replace a part, etc). So when they get that wonderful "would you like to participate in a survey?" from Biff the Sr. Tech Lead (who likely can't deduce why his Christmas tree lights aren't on), the end user is foaming at the mouth ready to give a nasty review.

-Eric

So let me get this, 80 percent satisfaction ratings is sad, which other companies has such high ratings, if Apple's ratings is sad, then what do you call the likes of Dell and HP.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

They are jealous of my gorgeous Mac, that's why.

I found this funny. Instead of saying...
"they are jealous of my powerful Mac"
"they are jealous of my more functional Mac"
"they are jealous of my more efficient Mac"
... You defended your purchase with the term "gorgeous." So i would have to assume you bought your mac for aesthetics first, all else second.

 

[NT1440]

So let me get this, 80 percent satisfaction ratings is sad, which other companies has such high ratings, if Apple's ratings is sad, then what do you call the likes of Dell and HP.

Because they make the entirety of the product?....yea I dont get it either.

You CANNOT please everyone. Frankly I think 80% is astounding considering how bitchy we all are when it comes to spending our money.

 

[Oscartapia]

The real cost-benefit plus with Macs

Too many - the PC users - have told they agree with the adds: Macs are too expensive... the computer price: yes, a little more expensive, but with better software, with better configurations, better looks but specially, and that is the REAL PLUS: the OS. And not only because of how well it works, but because of something Windows has failed ALWAYS: viruses.

this is something all the PC users most agree: they most spend time and money, and even data lost - and sometimes, in the worst scenario, they may need to spend on a new computer - becuae of viruses. I have used Macs for 17 years, and I have never spent a dime, and therefore not a second because of a virus problem. Even before, thus it never was turned on, I had Norton Antivirus installed... but just because it was part of the Norton System Works, that I used just to keep the computer in optimal conditions, just for defragmentation. And now from some years 'till now I don't even use that kind of software any more, in fact there is no Norton for Macs anymore, because of the little you could need it.

Just that fact is a great advantage, a great save of money.

How many time, data and money a PC user could have spent in 17 years???.... and maybe even they had to change their computers, or at least some components!

 

[ericinboston]

So let me get this, 80 percent satisfaction ratings is sad, which other companies has such high ratings, if Apple's ratings is sad, then what do you call the likes of Dell and HP.

First, I think any support rating under 90% from ANY SOFTWARE OR COMPUTER company is sad.

Second, I think in particular, as I stated in the earlier post, that Apple's 80% is sad just looking at Apple and not looking at anyone else.

Third, I know the Tech Support industry is very hard...again, I'm not going to re-write my previous post but NOBODY calls into TS happy.


The only companies I've had GREAT (or even good) Tech Support with are small niche companies with specialized software...like Sonic Foundry (before Sony bought them)...or maybe a company like Digidesign that sells extremely expensive software/hardware aimed towards professionals (not a clueless nanny calling in because her AOL mail isn't working). The other 90% of the computer/software companies out there (Dell, Apple, Microsoft, IBM) stink. And for a countless reasons.

Apple's 80% compared to the next vendor at 66% is still not an accurate comparison...it can be spun to either vendor's advantage. On one point Apple can say "we're #1" but on the flipside the runner up (and everyone else) can say "well, Apple owns it all so they are in complete control of how well they can support the product as well as how happy they can keep the customer...some of our callers should be calling someone else...and they STILL get to answer a survey at the end of the call no matter what our Representative's answer is. We also have a billion configurations unlike Apple and also 0 physical store locations...so if we're 2nd place and supporting 100x more stuff solely over the telephone, well, 2nd place ain't so bad is it?". Let's also remember that Apple makes, compared to other computer vendors, a very limited array of computers...in any given year those items are: 1 Mini, 3 iMacs, 1 Server, 3 MacBooks, and a Pro. That's it kids. Now look at Dell or HP that not only sells Consumer class machines but Business class (that CAN be purchased by Consumers)...for consumers a typical year for Dell would be: 10-15 laptop models (that are HIGHLY customizable), 10-15 desktops (also highly customizable), Servers, Tablets, and some Hybrids. I can't sit here and write every combination or go year by year...the point of my last few sentences is that Apple sells such a small array of computers compared to the top 5 PC manufacturers...and this point is another reason why it's hard (and likely unfair) to try compare Apple's Tech Support with Dell or HP or Gateway. This is also why I am amazed at Apple's 80% rating when they are supporting such a small combination of hardware/software.

 

[ericinboston]

Too many - the PC users - have told they agree with the adds: Macs are too expensive... the computer price: yes, a little more expensive, but with better software, with better configurations, better looks but specially, and that is the REAL PLUS: the OS. And not only because of how well it works, but because of something Windows has failed ALWAYS: viruses.

this is something all the PC users most agree: they most spend time and money, and even data lost - and sometimes, in the worst scenario, they may need to spend on a new computer - becuae of viruses. I have used Macs for 17 years, and I have never spent a dime, and therefore not a second because of a virus problem. Even before, thus it never was turned on, I had Norton Antivirus installed... but just because it was part of the Norton System Works, that I used just to keep the computer in optimal conditions, just for defragmentation. And now from some years 'till now I don't even use that kind of software any more, in fact there is no Norton for Macs anymore, because of the little you could need it.

Just that fact is a great advantage, a great save of money.

How many time, data and money a PC user could have spent in 17 years???.... and maybe even they had to change their computers, or at least some components!

<yawn>...Here's another poorly-written rambling of how great Macs are...take it to another thread.

 

[Goona]

LOL so it's unfair for us to compare Apple with poor little Dell. Can you explain why Apple also leads in iphone user satisfaction rates, and with ipods too or are their competitors in those fields also not providing unifying solutions so no comparisons can be made.

 

[tubbymac]

Apple should be responding with things like this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10222213-37.html

Now that's more like it. Stuff like this is great and shows the merits of an Apple computer. I have rarely, if ever, heard the word "love" mentioned with a PC. It's hard to imagine a Microsoft ad that says "I love my PC" instead of the more neutral "I'm a PC" line they use now.

But I hear it all the time when people talk about their Apple machines. I love my Macbook! I love my iPhone! People actually like Apple computers. People usually just get by with PC machines - they don't really love them. That's the big difference.

On a side note, I clicked on that Forester research article and they want $749 US just to see the PDF of the charts. Crazy!

 

[miggitymac]

Can you explain why Apple also leads in iphone user satisfaction rates, and with ipods too or are their competitors in those fields also not providing unifying solutions so no comparisons can be made.

Apple has competitors in the iphone and ipod fields?

They probably lead in user satisfaction rates b/c they're the only ones that make iphones and ipods....

Maybe.

 

[Oscartapia]

<yawn>...Here's another poorly-written rambling of how great Macs are...take it to another thread.

So, you've never had any problem with any virus on a PC, do you?... congratulations, you're the first one I know!!

 

[NT1440]

Apple has competitors in the iphone and ipod fields?

They probably lead in user satisfaction rates b/c they're the only ones that make iphones and ipods....

Maybe.

Phone and mp3 player markets. But you already knew that

 

[Goona]

Apple has competitors in the iphone and ipod fields?

They probably lead in user satisfaction rates b/c they're the only ones that make iphones and ipods....

Maybe.

No I mean in the mobile phone field and mp3 players field and yes they have plenty of competitors in those fields.

 

[ericinboston]

LOL so it's unfair for us to compare Apple with poor little Dell. Can you explain why Apple also leads in iphone user satisfaction rates, and with ipods too or are their competitors in those fields also not providing unifying solutions so no comparisons can be made.

Did you see in the article that this was the first time such a Survey gap existed (66% vs. 80%)?...and that it might be due to Vista's launch? And if you were to read in between the lines there, why are the hardware manufacturers getting bad marks for Microsoft's not-so-good operating system?

Dude, I'm not going to write a book on this topic. My points stand. You are generalizing my comments (and thanks for not quoting anything in particular).

If you want to hold a 9 hour seminar on this topic, invite me and the industry to it.

 

[miggitymac]

Phone and mp3 player markets. But you already knew that

 

[Goona]

Did you see in the article that this was the first time such a Survey gap existed (66% vs. 80%)?...and that it might be due to Vista's launch? And if you were to read in between the lines there, why are the hardware manufacturers getting bad marks for Microsoft's not-so-good operating system?

Dude, I'm not going to write a book on this topic. My points stand. You are generalizing my comments (and thanks for not quoting anything in particular).

If you want to hold a 9 hour seminar on this topic, invite me and the industry to it.

Oh so now it's because of Vista, funny thing is Apple was leading these surveys before Vista was launched. So now it's from not building a unified solution to Vista, right.

 

[ericinboston]

So, you've never had any problem with any virus on a PC, do you?... congratulations, you're the first one I know!!

Although this virus topic is 1 piece of your rambling...yes, I have had 1 virus on my machine. It was in the mid 90s on Win95 if I recall correctly. No damage done...my antivirus software caught it.

I've known very few people (both work folks and non-work) over the years that have gotten viruses. I've seen plenty of people that got spyware thanks to them surfing to porn sites and Warez sites and other not-too-smart-to-visit websites. That's their own fault.