Apple Comments on Microsoft's Laptop Hunter Ads

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Well thats not my experience. People just keep them on their desk near the monitor. Of course I really don't see too many people buy Minis these days unless they adapt them to be home media servers and not as desktop computers. The mini is also not a tower. Nobody would seriously classify it as that.

So what's the difference between leaving a mini out and leaving a tower out? None. I would be perfectly happy leaving a nice looking tower out, just as I'd be happy to leave a mini out. I also wouldn't feel bad if I needed to tuck the tower away, just as I don't feel bad tucking a mini away for space reasons.

 

[pdjudd]

So what's the difference between leaving a mini out and leaving a tower out? None. I would be perfectly happy leaving a nice looking tower out, just as I'd be happy to leave a mini out. I also wouldn't feel bad if I needed to tuck the tower away, just as I don't feel bad tucking a mini away for space reasons.

That may be fine for you, but thats not what Apple designers their products for. Apples focus on their iMacs and not the Minis indicates that they don't design a computer that is just going to be relegated to a hidden niche like most desktops end up. The mini is a curious item in Apple's lineup since it is never featured in their Ads. Its primary purpose seems to be as a switcher model and as such relegates it to the most minimal approach as possible and not concerned with the overall design on the outside. Apple's real desktop is the iMac. Its not going to be a headless tower. A headless tower is going to carry the impression of comparing their workstation. They don't want that kind of distraction. They want clearly defined product lines with their desktops. The laptops form their own rules since their form factor is largely pre-defined for them.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

That may be fine for you, but thats not what Apple designers their products for. Apples focus on their iMacs and not the Minis indicates that they don't design a computer that is just going to be relegated to a hidden niche like most desktops end up. The mini is a curious item in Apple's lineup since it is never featured in their Ads. Its primary purpose seems to be as a switcher model and as such relegates it to the most minimal approach as possible and not concerned with the overall design on the outside. Apple's real desktop is the iMac. Its not going to be a headless tower. A headless tower is going to carry the impression of comparing their workstation. They don't want that kind of distraction. They want clearly defined product lines with their desktops. The laptops form their own rules since their form factor is largely pre-defined for them.

No matter how much you argue the mini and Pro exist and they are often tucked away, so what would be the difference if they made a mid-sized tower?

 

[pdjudd]

No matter how much you argue the mini and Pro exist and they are often tucked away, so what would be the difference if they made a mid-sized tower?

The mac pro is not a consumer box that is built to be shown off. Its a workstation that Apple knows is not going to be seen in the home. You cannot equate how Apple Markets the Pro or the mini (despite the fact that they really don't). A mid sized tower is going to contrast the iMac, not complement it unless said theoretical mac is not going to get advertised. If thats the case, what's the point in having it.

 

[3282868]

It doesn't suck as an OS, the software selection sucks. An OS is nothing w/o software. Windows runs fine with lots of software. Go figure. I've seen no positive aspects of the OS itself. It does what my vista install does. There's nothing amazing about it. Its just an OS running on overpriced hardware. Intel is intel, same exact cpus.

You judge people by what type of computer they have? LOL, no wonder people by far consider hardcore apple users snobs.

May I ask you a question? You joined a few days ago, and your first post seemed innocent. You asked a few questions that seemed very reasonable. Then all of a sudden, your tone and opinions changed. You became heated and confrontational, and began baiting people into topics you seemed all too prepared for shooting down, almost as though you had a prepared list to follow an agenda. Why did you join Macrumors if you loathe Apple products so much and refer to those who prefer it as "snobs"?

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

The mac pro is not a consumer box that is built to be shown off. Its a workstation that Apple knows is not going to be seen in the home. You cannot equate how Apple Markets the Pro or the mini (despite the fact that they really don't). A mid sized tower is going to contrast the iMac, not complement it unless said theoretical mac is not going to get advertised. If thats the case, what's the point in having it.

I'm not arguing that Apple should make said mid-tower, rather that your argument has serious flaws. However, one cannot deny that there would be advantages to selling a mid-tower, however I doubt Apple will ever sell one since their business model seems to be more akin to that of a coffee maker, or a washing machine building company, instead of a computer company. Apple sees their machines as appliances, rather than computers like their competitors.

 

[3282868]

Comparing cars to computers is like comparing planes to video came consoles. Its not a good analogy. And why always cars?

and yet, you compared gamers to computer users, which is not a good analogy. The general population that play games do so on consoles such as the Wii or XBOX, very few of the GENERAL population use their computers for "gaming". I guess analogies are only acceptable when they suit your desired outcome.

 

[polaris20]

May I ask you a question? You joined a few days ago, and your first post seemed innocent. You asked a few questions that seemed very reasonable. Then all of a sudden, your tone and opinions changed. You became heated and confrontational, and began baiting people into topics you seemed all too prepared for shooting down, almost as though you had a prepared list to follow an agenda. Why did you join Macrumors if you loathe Apple products so much and refer to those who prefer it as "snobs"?

Because our current selection of trolls was getting a little stale, so someone must have ordered up some new ones.

However it's the same old drivel being spewed, so it's just as tired as all the others. Either that or it's another troll that was banned and signed up under another username.

 

[pdjudd]

Apple sees their machines as appliances, rather than computers like their competitors.

I actually see things the other way around. Dell, HP, Sony, etc are in the business selling windows boxes. They are just a conduit to running an OS. Most appliances are just ignored by the home user and are just used. For example, washing machines and dryers are large, bulky, noisy appliances that are hidden away in specially tucked away rooms in which you go in there to do a weekly task. We don't think much of them and we really don't show them off to anybody else unless the topic comes up or we buy something so superior we do it to brag. Thats why most PC's (desktops) are purchased without much thought and shoved aside only looked at to tun them on or to plug something into them.

Apple looks at their computers like centerpieces that do more than rank out data. They build their computers with class and design that stands out and shouts out to everybody that they are out there. Little touches like the Apple glowing on their notebooks - designed to catch your eye and be noticed from across the room.

But YMMV of course.

 

[pdjudd]

and yet, you compared gamers to computer users, which is not a good analogy. The general population that play games do so on consoles such as the Wii or XBOX, very few of the GENERAL population use their computers for "gaming". I guess analogies are only acceptable when they suit your desired outcome.

And the vast majority of computer gamers are doing it on high end commercial computers or ones that they build themselves. Not only that, they tend to be very technical people. The exact opposite of the average computer buyer. The problem is that people tend to project their personal experiences to the rest of the world and see it as the norm. Everybody is guilty of it from time to time. Heck, even I am guilty of it.

 

[Mad Mac]

The only thing similar between a Mac and a car is that the aluminum laptops dent all to hell when you drop them.

Look at this guy's poor MBP: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/687601/

Now go here and look at all of the videos showing Sony's reliability testing:
http://b2b.sony.com/vaio/durability/durability_videos.html?vid=1

 

[Sehnsucht]

It doesn't suck as an OS, the software selection sucks. An OS is nothing w/o software. Windows runs fine with lots of software. Go figure. I've seen no positive aspects of the OS itself. It does what my vista install does. There's nothing amazing about it. Its just an OS running on overpriced hardware. Intel is intel, same exact cpus.

You judge people by what type of computer they have? LOL, no wonder people by far consider hardcore apple users snobs.

There are clear differences between "hardcore Apple users" and "Apple snobs." You can be a total Apple fanatic without being a fanboy.

An Apple fanatic:

This person loves Macs and Apple-themed art, and collects them for a hobby. This person enjoys using Mac OS X. Calm, cool and collected, there still a few things that annoy this guy about Macs, but nothing that he isn't afraid to admit and discuss with anyone. The guy uses a PC at work but doesn't lose sleep over it.

An Apple fanboy:

This person can't stand any criticism of Apple whatsoever. These types will defend everything Steve Jobs says and does no matter what, and are often rude and snobby about it as well. The mere sight of someone using a PC will evoke comments like, "OMG how can you stand using that fugly piece of crap computer with Mi¢ro$oft Windoze on it??? Ewwww, I bet it's really really slow!"

There you have it. I belong to the first camp, by the way.

 

[pdjudd]

The only thing similar between a Mac and a car is that the aluminum laptops dent all to hell when you drop them.

Look at this guy's poor MBP: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/687601/

Now go here and look at all of the videos showing Sony's reliability testing:
http://b2b.sony.com/vaio/durability/durability_videos.html?vid=1

Of course it should be mentioned, that with laptops, all bets are off on durability when you drop them. The only exception is the toughbooks, but even they are not immune from impact damage. My black plastic laptop survived one fall with no damage at all, but the second drop killed the screen and nothing else. That doesn't make plastic a better manufacturing product. Laptops, like anything else, should be treated carefully and not be lugged around like your dirty laundry

 

[Digital Skunk]

The only thing similar between a Mac and a car is that the aluminum laptops dent all to hell when you drop them.

Look at this guy's poor MBP: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/687601/

Now go here and look at all of the videos showing Sony's reliability testing:
http://b2b.sony.com/vaio/durability/durability_videos.html?vid=1

And you would want to drop your laptop why? Or in the case that you'll be using it somewhere dangerous why would you take an Apple or any other basic machine, you should be grabbing a toughbook.

You analogy leads one to believe that they should be buying cars that don't dent at all on impact.... like a tank.

Then there's this right here/ which just tears that to shreds.

p.s. not arguing the denting, just that it doesn't matter, like the splitting bezels in HP laptops. <-- personal issue, not wide spread.

There you have it. I belong to the first camp, by the way.

I am definitely middle left.... more toward the fanatic, but I can't stand working with Windows when there's something wrong.

Then I start the cursing and bashing of Windows.

 

[Anuba]

The mini is also not a tower. Nobody would seriously classify it as that.

No but that wasn't your point. Your point was, why would Apple bother to design a computer you just stick under your desk or tuck away somewhere. Yet that's what they're doing with the Mini and the Mac Pro.

If they made a slim tower, like this one but with an aluminium case of course...

...I'd say it would end up *on* people's desks, or next to TV sets and such. Could be useful as a media center. I use a Mini for that, but obviously it would be nice with a little more storage, HDMI, 5.1 output etc. You can only get so much livingroom fun out of a lunchbox with a headphone jack and a laptop HDD.

Snobs, really? Looks more like they've confused the Apple logo with a urinal.

 

[Mad Mac]

And you would want to drop your laptop why? Or in the case that you'll be using it somewhere dangerous why would you take an Apple or any other basic machine, you should be grabbing a toughbook.

Are you kidding? I hope so. Laptops, due to their portability, are more prone to accidents. Do you think the guy that dropped his Macbook in that thread I linked wanted to do it? Obviously not. It's called an accident. And accidents happen.

You analogy leads one to believe that they should be buying cars that don't dent at all on impact.... like a tank.

First off, I didn't make an analogy. Second, your conclusion is ridiculous. My point is that Macs aren't design to some higher standard that people seem to think (ie. comparing Macs to BMW and PC to Kia).

Put an aluminum Mac through the same tests that Sony Z series went through and it would be ugly. And that Sony Z is just a regular laptop, not some industrial strength one like a Toughbook.

 

[Sehnsucht]

No but that wasn't your point. Your point was, why would Apple bother to design a computer you just stick under your desk or tuck away somewhere. Yet that's what they're doing with the Mini and the Mac Pro.

If they made a slim tower, like this one but with an aluminium case of course...

All they need to do is put a Core i7 in a Mac Pro case, sell it for $999, and there's your "minitower". Not physically "mini" of course, but seeing as how the quad-Xeon Mac Pro technically is the xMac or minitower or whatever, just too expensive.

Snobs, really? Looks more like they've confused the Apple logo with a urinal.

I guess I can see that, but if you look at it a certain way, they also appear to be touching themselves.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I am definitely middle left.... more toward the fanatic, but I can't stand working with Windows when there's something wrong.

Then I start the cursing and bashing of Windows.

Like at school, I'll be working on a project on an old Dell Optiplex in Photoshop, I'll click on something too fast and *poof* BSOD and my project is gone. Happens EVERY DAY without fail. It's getting to be pretty f***ing ridiculous.

 

[tubbymac]

There are clear differences between "hardcore Apple users" and "Apple snobs." You can be a total Apple fanatic without being a fanboy.

There you have it. I belong to the first camp, by the way.

So where does that leave people like me that don't fall into either camp?

Since we're doing a bit of the backseat CEO here with the arguments for an Apple midtower, and whether Apple should make one or not, here's how I'd handle it if I was in charge.

I'd have a little hush money internal unit in Apple. It'd manufacture these midtowers for people like Anuba and Aidenshaw just to hush them up about it. But the main business would still continue only selling iMacs, Mac Pros, and Macbooks instead

 

[AidenShaw]

The monthly [3G] fee only occurs if you exercise the choice. Also notice that if you're a business traveler, the monthly fee is about the price of hotel internet access for 4 nights. In addition, it means that you never have to look for a hotspot or pay hotspot fees. You also have your own private line, rather than be open to eavesdropping by everyone at a hotspot.

...
I'd think that Apple would want to have "must-have" options available.

Here's another comment on Apple's missing 3G support...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10222791-64.html?tag=mncol

"(Apple could obviate all of this, of course, by providing an elegant internal 3G option for MacBooks.)"​

 

[KnightWRX]

Are you kidding? I hope so. Laptops, due to their portability, are more prone to accidents. Do you think the guy that dropped his Macbook in that thread I linked wanted to do it? Obviously not. It's called an accident. And accidents happen.

The guy basically swung the laptop over his shoulder onto his driveway, which will probably be made of either concrete, asphalt or some other kind of very very hard material.

What did you expect would happen ? And what are you expecting other laptops would do ?

I don't think this is a good example of anything.

 

[weg]

*sigh* Why didn't they continue those Gates/Seinfeld commercials? They were so much more clever and subtle... obviously people only understand ads that tell them "you use [PC/Mac]? You stupid!"

 

[Mad Mac]

The guy basically swung the laptop over his shoulder onto his driveway, which will probably be made of either concrete, asphalt or some other kind of very very hard material.

What did you expect would happen ?

I would expect an aluminum Mac to bend and deform, which is exactly what happened.

And what are you expecting other laptops would do ?

Did you even watch all the tests in the Sony link? I expect laptops to survive moderate accidental drops without bending out of shape and looking like hell was unleashed on it like the forum member's laptop. Do you think your Macbook would survive the reliability tests in that Sony video? I think not.

I don't think this is a good example of anything.

Of course you don't. But if you looked at it objectively, you'd see that Macs are nothing more than a PC wrapped in fancy clothes. And those fancy clothes don't necessarily make it better as some would lead one to believe (BMW vs Kia analogies). And in some cases, those fancy clothes and extra price premium bring even less to the table: wimpy aluminum case, no Blu-ray, no 1680 x 1050 screens on the 15.4", no matte options, etc.

 

[KnightWRX]

I would expect an aluminum Mac to bend and deform, which is exactly what happened.

Did you even watch all the tests in the Sony link? I expect laptops to survive moderate accidental drops without bending out of shape and looking like hell was unleashed on it like the forum member's laptop. Do you think your Macbook would survive the reliability tests in that Sony video? I think not

He dropped the thing in his driveway. Any other plastic laptop would've shattered on impact, unless it was a rugged laptop, like the Panasonic Toughbook.

Don't be dense, you sound worst than the Apple apologists you're trying to look down on.

 

[AidenShaw]

Like at school, I'll be working on a project on an old Dell Optiplex in Photoshop, I'll click on something too fast and *poof* BSOD and my project is gone. Happens EVERY DAY without fail. It's getting to be pretty f***ing ridiculous.

It's pretty ridiculous that you don't get that particular Optiplex fixed or replaced.

Even more ridiculous that EVERY DAY without fail you make the same mistake and use an obviously sick machine.

But the most ridiculous thing is that you expect us to believe that anecdote!