Apple Comments on Microsoft's Laptop Hunter Ads

[whoaman]

Is a Mac worth it?

I use a Mac Pro for my music work (with DP, Logic Pro, PT) and over the past 20 years, all the different Macs I've used never failed me, I never got a virus (that is, my Mac never did), and I'm writing this post on a 4 1/2 year old Powerbook that keeps on ticking. A few of my friends did the 'switch' even though it cost a bit more, and interestingly, not one of them regrets it.

 

[Anuba]

and Windows inability to run Logic Pro, which is superior to Protools (which Mac runs very well) in regard to MIDI and synth mixing

Umm...

Emagic's Logic ran perfectly well on Windows until the day that Gerhard Lengeling sold Emagic to Apple, and Apple swiftly discontinued Logic for Windows in an attempt to force all Logic users to buy Macs. Instead, much to Gerhard's dismay, they went to Steinberg's Cubase (Gerhard and Charlie Steinberg once had a kind of Jobs/Wozniak thing going, but later split... and it wasn't amicable until they smoked the peace pipe -- literally -- at the Frankfurt MusikMesse in 1997).

As for "superior to Pro Tools", technically a lot of things are superior to Pro Tools, the problem is that you would be laughed out of any studio if you barged in and made the above claim. Pro Tools is the industry standard whether we like it or not (I personally don't care for it).

The big Mac advantage from a DAW point of view is CoreAudio. Windows wasn't built for DAW purposes, they tried with the WaveRT API in Vista but it was about as successful as the WMA audio format, i.e. noooooot. When it comes to low-latency audio out of the box, Mac wins hands down. The software argument, however, is pretty lame. 90% of all professional music software (and 100% of the essential music software) runs on both platforms. Cubase, Pro Tools, Reason, Ableton Live and a zillion VST/AU plugins. Sure, Mac does Logic but only Windows does WaveLab, Adobe Audition, Sonar, SF Acid, FruityLoops, ReBirth and a lo-o-ong list of other apps that many would never trade for Logic even at gunpoint.

 

[3282868]

Autonomy and Freedom of choice are critical to our well being, and choice is critical to freedom and autonomy. Nonetheless, though modern Americans have more choice than any group of people ever has before, and thus, presumably, more freedom and autonomy, we don't seem to be benefiting from it psychologically.
— Chapter 5, "The Paradox of Choice", 2004

Excellent reference. It is interesting to note that generally the more choices in consumerism the more prone to emotional instability. Additionally, the increase in product variety and availability has significantly negatively impacted the environment by creating more waste in packaging and consumption.

 

[-hh]

Not going to bother with the whole post of this drivel, but seriously... want to actually back up statements about iPhoto being just a toy, etc? I use iPhoto constantly. It's an incredible piece of software and does more than most PC software programs can dream of for your pictures.

However, it does have its limitations, and there are some things out there that are arguably better at certain tasks (eg, keyword tagging in Adobe Bridge) ... but the rest of the question is what software is arguably 'better' that similarly comes for free on a Windows PC?

Sure, if you've got something like a professional digital SLR camera and you're shooting in RAW, you're going to need Aperture.

Or Adobe Lightroom ... but that's not a free ticket either. On either OS.


-hh

 

[DMann]

http://www.computerworld.com/action...&articleId=9131558&taxonomyId=89&pageNumber=1

Excellent read.... endorsed by a Windows Guru.

 

[applecultvictim]

http://www.computerworld.com/action...&articleId=9131558&taxonomyId=89&pageNumber=1

That's not to say that every aspect of the Mac is superior to the PC. Vista's Network and Sharing Center, and especially the Network Map, is an excellent, simple, all-in-one destination for networking that Mac OS X would do well to emulate.

Overall, though, Mac OS X beats Windows. There, I've said it. And lightning hasn't struck me yet.

Good read overall...but....The network sharing center, there hasn't been a single most tiresome convoluted, just plainly badly done aspect of windows than the network and sharing center. Suffice to say you are just FIVE clicks away from finding you ip adress amongst confusing window after window after window.

Probably the worst ui interface design EVER. What clutter, tasks on the left, categories on top, maps and various to dos on the right, more see also on the bottom left...some coming up in black fonts, some blue, some white on the left...jesus ms just make up your mind...jesus...and the network map? what's that about does she have ten routers and ten machines running that she needs to see how they all map out...windows people...

At least she saw the light in the end.

 

[MacAndy74]

'Life without Walls' does that mean that if you buy a Windows PC, you will end up homeless, broke and sleeping on the street?

 

[Anuba]

Ummm... I want to move to where you live, or grow up.
C64 kids did pick on everyone else round my way, and oldely every one i've ever spoken too seems to agree.

And they all had Vic 20's* before that. It's funny all the kids who got to use ][e's and most of the machines other that the C64's where using a computer had for work. In contrast the C64 was a "family" computer.

Hm. Well, we didn't have ze internetz in those days so it was a tad difficult to get a grasp on the global home computer wars, but where I grew up (Sweden) we all got along very well. Oh wait, come to think of it, we did taunt one kid a little, but he had an ORIC. Otherwise it was all very friendly. We'd all go to the Sinclair Spectrum kid's house and play JetPac until we were bored, then we'd go to the Spectravideo kid's house, then the C64 kid's house, then the TI99 kid's house, then the Luxor ABC80 kid's house... we'd even gather around a Sinclair ZX81 and watch what happened when you entered 10 PRINT "HELLO", 20 GOTO 10. Then we'd stop by the ORIC kid's house and throw some eggs.

 

[applecultvictim]

@digitalskunk .

Excellent reference. It is interesting to note that generally the more choices in consumerism the more prone to emotional instability. Additionally, the increase in product variety and availability has significantly negatively impacted the environment by creating more waste in packaging and consumption.

This is indeed an excellent reference one that I would never have thought I would see here, I urge everyone to consider the thesis by Schwartz. You will find the insight very liberating... I know I do by reminding myself of all these things I keep getting wrong and suffering as a result...

 

[DMann]

Umm...

Emagic's Logic ran perfectly well on Windows until the day that Gerhard Lengeling sold Emagic to Apple, and Apple swiftly discontinued Logic for Windows in an attempt to force all Logic users to buy Macs. Instead, much to Gerhard's dismay, they went to Steinberg's Cubase (Gerhard and Charlie Steinberg once had a kind of Jobs/Wozniak thing going, but later split... and it wasn't amicable until they smoked the peace pipe -- literally -- at the Frankfurt MusikMesse in 1997).

As for "superior to Pro Tools", technically a lot of things are superior to Pro Tools, the problem is that you would be laughed out of any studio if you barged in and made the above claim. Pro Tools is the industry standard whether we like it or not (I personally don't care for it).

The big Mac advantage from a DAW point of view is CoreAudio. Windows wasn't built for DAW purposes, they tried with the WaveRT API in Vista but it was about as successful as the WMA audio format, i.e. noooooot. When it comes to low-latency audio out of the box, Mac wins hands down. The software argument, however, is pretty lame. 90% of all professional music software (and 100% of the essential music software) runs on both platforms. Cubase, Pro Tools, Reason, Ableton Live and a zillion VST/AU plugins. Sure, Mac does Logic but only Windows does WaveLab, Adobe Audition, Sonar, SF Acid, FruityLoops, ReBirth and a lo-o-ong list of other apps that many would never trade for Logic even at gunpoint.

Most studios I work with admit that Pro Tools has limitations in certain areas - I was by no means implying that Logic Pro could or would replace Pro Tools, however, it is a great supplement. Sure Cubase, Reason, et. al. are cross platform, and yes, CoreAudio makes interfacing with DAW a pleasure. I can't say that I've played much with WaveLab, Audition, Sonar, SF Acid, etc., but Logic Pro 8 is quite the upgrade from 7, and works seamlessly with my TEAC FW mixers. Logic has indeed come A LONG way since the Emagic era.

 

[pellets007]

I'm just wondering how long Microsoft can keep up their image of cheap, bargain, and uncool. That's not really a future proof marketing plan.

 

[DMann]

I'm just wondering how long Microsoft can keep up their image of cheap, bargain, and uncool. That's not really a future proof marketing plan.

It has been for a little over two decades, all except the bargain part.

 

[KnightWRX]

This type of childish rivalry wasn't even a factor before Jobs came along. Commodore 64 users didn't gang up on Sinclair Spectrum users, Spectrum users didn't taunt Texas Instruments TI/99 users. The Mac community (with Jobs cheerleading in the background) started the whole hatin'-on-another-platform tradition, the Linux community joined in later.

I'm pretty sure the childish product rivalries are not in anyway Apple innovation. For one, Chevrolet vs Ford is way older than the IBM PC or Apple Computers.

 

[BohoTrash]

I know Apple has some kind of cultural cache as a "cool" brand but I became a 'convert' after trying out a Mac in a Comet store last year and finding the whole experience immediately intuitive. I was in the market for buying a new laptop after accidentally killing my old Acer by means of coffee, and thought the price of a Mac initially prohibitive. Nevertheless, out of all the computers I tried out I thought the Mac was the best, so I coughed up the necessary wad and went for the Apple. Now, I'm not particularly a buff or anything but I have found ways to do things creatively on a Mac -without having to bear much of a thought for any underpinning processes- and basically I have actually been able to enjoy using a computer. Crashes are extremely rare; viruses are almost negligable, and the quality and innovation in the hardware -the magsafe has been a boon to a clumsy oaf like me- actually sometimes do make me smile. I am aware that the glowing apple logo on the back of the lid sometimes attracts admiring glances because people perhaps assume that I am loaded and, I don't know, 'culturally astute' or something, but the truth is I used PCs for years without really thinking there was actually anything better. Obviously writing this on a Mac forum should probably be something like preaching to the converted, but most PC users I know that have tried my Mac have been genuinely impressed by how 'sweet' the thing is to use both in terms of tactile hardware and intuitive software. I still have a spare Windows laptop but I use my Mac all the time. I think that in the long run Macs do pay for themselves as since September last year I have experienced my most problem-free computer usage ever, and my PC-using friends and colleagues are aware of this even though I don't necessarily go about evangelising.

I just 'do', because on my Mac I can. More people that I know are now considering Macs as viable purchases in spite of the cost because they've seen that I moan and cuss less. I just get on with my work. By this 'early' stage in a computer's life all the PCs I've ever owned had fallen ill in one way or another -and especially in terms of build quality and OS stability. This is the best advert for Apple. I don't go for Microsoft versus Apple as such. One friend of mine will never be tempted away from PCs because he actually enjoys the battle between user and hardware. He is a PC buff. More power to him. But those of us who simply want to get stuff done do come to understand where Macs excel in the end. I personally think my Mac (and iPhone, for that matter) is cool, and whether or not anyone else thinks it's cool is neither here nor there. It's cool because it works for me.

So Amen to that.

 

[-hh]

This basically sums it up.

The part that made me double take was the apps mosx listed. They all run on both platforms...

mosx was also called on this statement the other day:

He was asked what the logic was for a "Pro" to even bother to buy a Windows Workstation for use at home to do his LS-DYNA runs, particularly since he probably has a faster workstation (or a mini-cluster) at work that's 10x faster.

Similarly, for sending a Pro/E output through the slicer to go to the Stereolithography machine ... the bottleneck's going to be his Internet connection. FWIW, I didn't bother to mention that we had upgunned our LAN to give move those machines up from a 100bT hookup to Gigabit. Its still a nuisance sending between buildings, though...the 10GB backbone has to be shared with normal traffic.

And while Adobe Photoshop for Mac isn't yet 64 bit, I'm currently able to open up 200 megapixel (MP) image files in the 32bit versions, as this takes only 2GB of RAM.

Considering that state-of-the-shelf 'Pro' level dSLR's are still at around 21MP, the number of Pros doing multi-layer HDR panoramic stitches is pretty small...the generic hobbiest can very easily afford to wait until 2010...which also means that the Mac version should probably be already Snow Leopard optimized, too.


-hh

 

[billystlyes]

I think the people at Apple are living in a sheltered dream world. Beyond the sexy designs, there is little to justify the pricing. All of these machines basically use the same parts. A C2D is a C2D, a HDD is a HDD and memory is memory. The list really goes on and on. It's the software that makes them special.

 

[BohoTrash]

Excellent reference. It is interesting to note that generally the more choices in consumerism the more prone to emotional instability. Additionally, the increase in product variety and availability has significantly negatively impacted the environment by creating more waste in packaging and consumption.

And there is what Douglas Coupland referred to as "Option Paralysis": "the tendency, when given unlimited choices, to make none."

Which makes it relatively easy for a PC World salesperson to sell anything with a screen and a keyboard.

 

[Goona]

Microsoft and its hardware partners wouldn't have to make this case had they focused less in the past decade on driving prices down and more on quality. Forrester Research (FORR) recently released results of a study of consumer experiences with computer companies, assessing their view of a machine's usefulness, usability, and enjoyability. Apple ran the table in all three categories, well ahead of Gateway (now a unit of Acer), HP, and Dell (DELL).

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2009/tc20090415_602968_page_2.htm

 

[Anuba]

Most studios I work with admit that Pro Tools has limitations in certain areas - I was by no means implying that Logic Pro could or would replace Pro Tools, however, it is a great supplement. Sure Cubase, Reason, et. al. are cross platform, and yes, CoreAudio makes interfacing with DAW a pleasure. I can't say that I've played much with WaveLab, Audition, Sonar, SF Acid, etc., but Logic Pro 8 is quite the upgrade from 7, and works seamlessly with my TEAC FW mixers. Logic has indeed come A LONG way since the Emagic era.

I wanted to have a look at Logic 8 because the interface looked very well designed; after 20 years with Cubase I'm getting a little tired of its perpetual fugliness. So I installed it on a PowerMac G5 at my client's place and loaded one of the included demo songs. It crashed 3 times in 2 minutes(!), and I haven't touched it since. In Logic's defense, this was probably more to do with hardware than software. This particular G5 appeared to be some sort of, er, local prostitute that had seen so many installs and uninstalls and had so much crap on the desktop, a thorough enema was long overdue. I'll have another look if and when I buy a Mac Pro quad later this year -- rumor has it that Cubase 5 is awful on Nehalem Mac Pros, so my Cubase license may not be of much worth. Something to do with hyperthreading not being supported in Cubase, resulting in slow-as-molasses performance on Nehalem Macs, blah blah. Steinberg is kind of like Adobe, they once favored Macs, but after Apple's acquisition of Emagic (or, in Adobe's case, the introduction of Final Cut), they demonstratively put less effort into the Mac versions out of pure spite.

 

[OdduWon]

PC's are way cooler

What? Macs cool? No way, PCs are way cooler. Do all sorts of popups and fancy prompts appear when your Mac boots? No, Why, because you're too busy trying to do work or make stuff pretty to HAVE FUN. Why, I love it every time Clippy comes to my aid in my windozing and tells me crap I don't care about, awesome! And virus scans... best 20 minutes of my life. Forget about features like Expose and Grab, give me the unreliable opening double click over these any day. Is my application opening? I don't know, that's part of the fun! If our computers worked the way they were supposed to all the time, wouldn't we get bored? All I have to say is the Dell craptop I saw the other day had like 100 buttons, How many buttons does your Mac have? Oh, that's right: less buttons = less fun. "I may be poor, but I ain't retarded".

Plus what are the specs of these "Bargain" craptops? Yeah it has 4GB of RAM but what about processor speed, wireless, Bluetooth, and a multi-touch trackpad? Can you really get a better package for less money in the Windows world?

Why is Boot Camp so crappy? No tap/click? WTF. And why does my damn graphics card still buzz whenever I have the screen brightness on lower than the maximum setting? Jeez, I feel like I have one of those craptops when I am Bootcamping. Windows made my Mac less cool :

 

[Goona]

Apple has completely and utterly won the marketing battle that seemed so daunting for them just a few years back--the battle to convince the masses of the following:

Macs are an option that exists.

Not long ago, the masses of everyday computer buyers didn't see Macs as an option. They didn't know why, they didn't care why... they just know that Windows PCs are what people get. "Just because." These silent people--not the people with vocal opinions for/against Macs--were the majority and still are.

"Just because" doesn't cut it anymore. Even Microsoft is acknowledging that a Mac IS a legitimate option to consider. (Probably not smart on their part!)

That's a huge victory. Macs aren't ignored anymore.

Well said, not everybody wants to use a PC. I don't know of any market with such a dominance. Even with ipods you have numerous alternatives, most PC users don't even know about any alternatives. Good thing the likes of Macs and Linux is around.

 

[polaris20]

Seems that this very post was chock full of irony.

I'm sorry, where I work, watching movies, playing video games, and listening to music isn't real work. Making movies and making music however is, which the Mac does very well.

 

[MTI]

I'm just wondering how long Microsoft can keep up their image of cheap, bargain, and uncool. That's not really a future proof marketing plan.

I think we're about to find out when their "Microsoft Store" retail units start appearing.

 

[Goona]

Also because the OS is nothing without the computer.

MS couldn't just say some guy went out and needed a new OS to put on their "NAMELESS MACHINE"

Then compared Windows and OSX alone.

Plus, one major benefit for PC makers is the lack of R&D on the OS. They don't have to spend any cash on developing an OS, and save money on producing the machines.

Another reason why they cost less than comparable Macs but many people don't factor this when making all those comparisons.

 

[Goona]

Aha. Yep. Sure. Great designs and advanced software. Ahem. I had to buy Aperture to get something that's actually useful and not a toy like iPhoto. And that pretty much ends the entire iLife discussion for me -- on my Macs, iLife is about as useful for me as all that demo-ware that comes on an average grocery store PC.

Most of that "advanced" software this guy is talking about is actually a waste of space on the hard disk.

Putting a full version of iWork on a new Mac would be more useful for many people - especially for those who use their computer for boring stuff like real work. And even better than iWork would be a fully working version of Microsoft Office - after all, that is the de facto standard.

Or is he talking about OS X? You know, the consumer OS that falls short in almost every regard when you want to deploy it in an enterprise environment.

Or is he talking about Apple NOT providing on-site warranty like the rest of the big PC companies?

No. He's just getting paid to tell the fans the same old catchphrases again so that they keep donating their money to the Holy Church of Apple for the next "amazing, awesome, patented product that will totally change the way of how you think of whatever". And at the end of the day, it's just another buggy mp3 player, a cell phone that lacks basic features (copy & paste, anyone?) or another computer that still needs an additional Windows license for most customers to become useful - or compatible.

Sorry, folks, but I've been in the industry way too long (since the early 1980s) and I'm sick of tired of all that "Hooray!" crap, no matter from which "fraction" it comes. Apple is nice for the home office, but they completely suck in a business environment. Apple also sucks for gamers and for a lot of other typical consumer things as well (digital video-recording, for example). On the other hand, there are very good reasons why Dell, HP and IBM "own" the corporate hardware market and why Microsoft is and will remain the #1 provider of software platforms - for both the enterprise AND consumers. Those guys sell excellent SERVICE and VERSATILE solutions at extremely competitive prices. No, they don't sell designs. And they don't sell dreams, either. That's the business Apple is in.

Damn let it all out son. Tell us why you mad.