It introduces new technology: A new keyboard, a new track pad, a new battery system, and Apple's first fan-less comouter.
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Apple Confirms Retina MacBook Build-to-Order Pricing for 1.3 GHz Processor
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It introduces new technology: A new keyboard, a new track pad, a new battery system, and Apple's first fan-less comouter.
R&D isn't free!
As a reenvisioning of laptops, this is a big step, hence all the hate-mail from the backward. New display. New keyboard. New battery tech. New port tech (wish it had one more...). New trackpad.
Rather than take the cheap and simple way out - slap a hi res display into the MBA and bulk it up a bit to get enough battery in to get runtime back up to par with at least the rMBP - they start on a clean piece of paper.
Yeah, it's a v1 product. The next couple of revs will bring more features and probably a lower price. That's life.
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I can make the base prices make sense in the context of the product line. The upcharge for the 1.3gHz CPU seems very steep.
Well said. Perfectly stated and perfectly remembered. People who criticize this machine must be new to the Apple world or just have really short term memory. This is classic Apple and they will succeed and gather an insane amount of momentum with this new machine as time goes forward.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
The discussion was about relative value from OUR (us consumers) point-of-view. I didn't use the word to escalate "bargain" as the dominant reason to buy any laptop. I own Apple laptops myself and know that I paid more than the same hardware in Window laptop cases. I used the word to illustrate the concept that tossing around that competitor laptops with the same hardware being priced the same doesn't automatically shift consumer perceptions about the relative value -or lack thereof- of THIS laptop... anymore than the availability of gold watches priced at $50K makes $17K seem like a great value for the
Watch.
That would make a ton of sense...if an iPad could run OS X.
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Bzzzzzt, but thanks for playing. Correct me if I missed something, but isn't runtime one of the things that people fixate on when they claim the MBA is a "better" computer than the rMBP? The MBA would have needed major redesign to maintain its runtime. What probably happened is that Apple went part way down that road and realized how many changes they would need to make and decided to go all-in and design a whole new notebook.
If people don't like it, Apple will certainly get the message and try again.
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This ^^^ is certainly true, as it should be. It will be interesting to see how this fares, though we probably have to wait two or three years and rev cycles to really see.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I guess. Then again, in my own case, I'll need the adapter too, as I can't always depend on having access to everything wirelessly. Since the adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter?fnode=51 weighs something (anyone know how much?) AND I'd also need USB 3-to-ethernet adapter which would also weigh something (anybody know how much?), I'm not as sure that I'd definitely feel the difference. I know, I know: "this is not for you then."
Yeah. The interesting question (I think) is whether this can be a primary/sole laptop. I am thinking about buying one, but as a secondary laptop. Seeing real reviews will be interesting. Seeing the real world user feedback will be more interesting. Maybe it will bomb? Maybe it's an instant hit. Please pass the popcorn!
Apple has shown one again that it can get customers excited about extremely cool and well-built, weakass junk. First there was the inexcusably weak base iMac. Next came the embarrassing base mini, and now this.
From a computer enthusiast's point of view it's sad to see what Apple has become.
From a computer enthusiast's point of view it's sad to see what Apple has become.
the form factor of the new MacBook is possible because of the new Intel chips which are power efficient and don't require fans. They're perfectly fine for tasks which aren't CPU intensive. In average use SSD and RAM speed will affect performance more noticeably. If that doesn't suit your use case then clearly this machine isn't for you, it's fairly simple.
I agree with many of you MacRumor members that the price per performance ratio is way off. Looking at this for what it is, there's no doubt it's a rip off. One thing we need to keep in mind is that many of us would feel the same way about high end fashion in clothing and jewelry.
My point is that up until Apple stops offering Pro versions of their computers, none of us "tech heads" have much to worry about. These systems are curtailed to people who favor aesthetics over price, performance and anything reasonable. If there is a market for it, from a business standpoint, why not fill it?
I'm not saying I'm a fan of Apple moving towards this trend, but until they stop selling "pro" machines, I think I'm fine with them serving different markets at the same time.
My point is that up until Apple stops offering Pro versions of their computers, none of us "tech heads" have much to worry about. These systems are curtailed to people who favor aesthetics over price, performance and anything reasonable. If there is a market for it, from a business standpoint, why not fill it?
I'm not saying I'm a fan of Apple moving towards this trend, but until they stop selling "pro" machines, I think I'm fine with them serving different markets at the same time.
>>> I was addressing the recurring suggestion that Apple already did this "overpriced" & "thinnest" laptop before (with that first Air) which then had to go through several iterations of hardware improvements and price reductions to "get it right".
It's not a matter of getting it right. It's about introducing a new model with the most reasonable technology at the time, at a reasonable price, commensurate with a decent customer experience (driven mostly by battery life). Yes, Apple could have gone with a more powerful CPU in the original AIR, but battery life and thermal issues would have created a much worse customer experience. As technology (CPUs, SSD, etc) get better and less costly with time, Apple adjusts accordingly. That's the way it has been.
>>> So, rather than wait through a couple rounds of improving the hardware and reducing the price, why not just "get it right" this time?
See above. For example, Apple relies on outside vendors for CPUs. If Intel had CPUs that offered better performance with no hit on battery life (customer experience), those would have been used. No doubt Intel will have better performing CPUs with lower power dissipation next year and no doubt Apple will use them. There will also likely be a reduction in price as production will have ramped up and development costs recovered.
Have you not learned that Apple isn't just about specs and haven't been for a while
I think he was referring to the 13" MBA (I could be wrong).
I have tried to bond with the 11" MBA twice, didn't work. I agree that if it had a better display it would have been a winner. The 11" is a slick little machine, handicapped with a display that I personally find not worth looking at. YMMV.
This certainly leaves Apple with a strange product lineup. They have some work to do over the next year or so to straight out the lineup (assuming they would like a rational price/feature lineup to avoid confused consumers).
It's really about modularity. I run a business from home, and I generally use a rMBP 15". It's great for home/office use, but I often go out for the day and work at a coffee shop, or lug my laptop around on weekends, just in case I need to deal with client issues, and an iPad doesn't work for those scenarios, so I have to bring my 15" along. As a supplement to my rMBP, I'm planning on buying the rMB for daily carry, where I generally won't need to plug in peripherals or power. Sure, when I travel, I'll bring those things, which will offset the weight a little bit, but not by much.
I essentially look at the rMBP as an iPad with a keyboard and touchpad that runs OS X. I was worried that Apple was going to build the large, 12", IOS based iPad instead, so I'm pretty excited about the new computer.
Yeah, the 5Y71 processor used for the 1.3 and the 5Y31 processor used for the 1.1 have more than just 200MHz difference, and then there is Apple's different implementations as well. Lets wait until we can get proper verified benchmarks for the different models. I have a feeling you will be more understanding of the price difference once you see them.
Also, everything points to the 1.2 and 1.3 processors having more thermal headroom than the 1.1 in Apple's implementation, meaning not only are they more capable, but also less prone to throttling.
Could be a nice appreciable performance boost not only in the benchmarks, but also real life everyday use.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
The other major rationalization argument supporting THIS laptop vs. Air or MBP is many variations of "light computing", which is often defined as browsing with Safari, checking emails, writing simple documents, etc... all of which can be done pretty easily with an iPad or an iPad with keyboard.
To rationalize the need for OS X will usually mean needing a bit more power or more powerful apps than what you can do with iOS apps. And as we crank up the need for power, we start cutting into the concept of "underpowered/overpriced". That's why some of us are struggling to "get" this particular offering:
- If you need some OS X horsepower, you can save some money with the Air and get the exact same (full use of) OS X
- If you need more power, you can also buy a rMBP for about the same or less
- If you need thinner & lighter, you can buy an iPad or an iPad with keyboard for about half as thin and half the weight
Is this for some people? Sure. Those who value thinnest & lightest over just about everything else and absolutely want a laptop can get that with this laptop.
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I still use a 13" MBP upgraded with 8GB ram and an SSD. I have processor technology that came out in 2006. I do video editing & photo editing (occasionally), run multiple apps, and honestly don't feel like my computer is slow at all. Day to day it just works.
If I had the new macbook, I wouldn't be thinking about how much faster it is (even though compared to my current machine it is), I would be thinking about how much better the display and size is. The same could be said about a new rMBP. There comes a point where enough power is enough. After that, the focus is on other things.
Personally I would probably get a rMBP to replace my computer, but I think my wife would get a Macbook. Both of us would be happy with the upgrade. The value (to us) would be similar, and Apple's pricing reflects that. Makes sense to me.
If I had the new macbook, I wouldn't be thinking about how much faster it is (even though compared to my current machine it is), I would be thinking about how much better the display and size is. The same could be said about a new rMBP. There comes a point where enough power is enough. After that, the focus is on other things.
Personally I would probably get a rMBP to replace my computer, but I think my wife would get a Macbook. Both of us would be happy with the upgrade. The value (to us) would be similar, and Apple's pricing reflects that. Makes sense to me.