Apple Considering Legal Options Against Immigration Executive Order

[Bigsk8r]

I quote:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program


So you and many others here are ok when Obama does something, but hate when Trump does the exact same thing?
Where was the outrage back in 2015 and 2016 when Obama did the exact same thing Trump is doing now?

Lets fact the facts ok. This is not about hating what is happening here. If that was the case there would have been mass protests over Obama's Terrorist Travel Prevention Act 2015. There was not. This is just a number of people hating Trump because he is Trump and because they hate everyone associated with the Republican party.

Tim Cook is no different. Cook did not complain about the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act 2015. Cook is only complaining because he is a deep Democratic party supporter and does not like Trump.

Also everyone here needs to remember, that without the precedent of the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act 2015 that passed during Obama's time (of which Obama was in favour of), Trump could not do what he is doing now. Obama did the previous groundwork.

I am just sharing the facts here and showing how many people here are just hating on Trump for being Trump and not no the issue at hand.
However if you hated the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act 2015 back then (few people did, most thought it was a success), then ok you're campaigning on the issues here.

This is one of the few times were Obama and Trump are on the same page. About preventing foreign national terrorist attacks on US soil. Both Obama and Trump took the same measures to try and stop it. Obama was praised and Trump hated when the both are doing the exact same thing.

This is pure hypocracy and pure hatred for Trump by Tim Cook and many others. They all don't care about the real issues here. They just hate Trump. Doesn't matter what Trump does, good or bad, is it's done by Trump, these peopel will protest it.

You forgot to mention a few other things:

- We've been bombing and drone striking each of the 7 countries at different times over the last 8+ years

- The amount of collateral damage (civilian casualties) from drone related strikes is not 0 in any of the countries.

- People who listen only to MSM and don't investigate the facts can't seem to imagine why people from countries we've been materially harming for 8+ years might want to come here and hurt us. Apparently it's okay to bomb their butts off for 8 years, but it's not okay to want to establish their intention for wanting to come here.

 

[jkcerda]

You forgot to mention a few other things:

- We've been bombing and drone striking each of the 7 countries at different times over the last 8+ years

- The amount of collateral damage (civilian casualties) from drone related strikes is not 0 in any of the countries.

- People who listen only to MSM and don't investigate the facts can't seem to imagine why people from countries we've been materially harming for 8+ years might want to come here and hurt us. Apparently it's okay to bomb their butts off for 8 years, but it's not okay to want to establish their intention for wanting to come here.

you mean they might resent us for killing their families, arming their enemies & making them flee their homes in the first place? how UNGRATEFUL of them

nice post BTW.

 

[Arndroid]

Immigrant background using H1-B visas instead of Americans. F off Tim. How much cash now? $240 billion? Even more laughable is arguing temporary minor inconveniences to "hundreds" of employees comes before the safety of a country.

Trump administration killed more Yemen civilians in 11 days than Yemen terrorists have ever killed people in the us. But keep America safe? Lol.

Trump has killed more Americans and children so far than any terrorists from those countries.
[doublepost=1485980343][/doublepost]

Just recently the Ohio State attacker in November injured 13 people. St. Cloud mall attack injured 10 people. Manhattan bomb explosion in September injured 29 people.

I'm sorry they have already taken over your side of the world. We aren't going to become the next Germany or Sweden.

Which of those seven countries were those people from or are all browns and muslims the same?

 

[Superhai]

Somebody else using past performance to predict future results. Might want to read that prospectus on terrorism a little more closely before you invest.

And who would somebody else be. I don't usually try to predict the future, but a common pattern is that larger marginalized groups tend to be more likely to also breed extremists. By that metric, as many so called "white supremacist" and "pro-life" groups who have been active lately, feel like they have gotten their "men" in power, they will be less inclined to try to create attention to their case. On the flip side, environmental activists, some immigrant groups who feel that the current administration are opposed them, and most importantly groups of people who the current administration are failing to avoid becoming a target by their opposite, they will be more active.

 

[SeattleMoose]

I usually side with Tim (e.g. pushback on NSA privacy invasions, etc.)....but not this time.

Instead of playing politics, how about work on your products which aren't that innovative anymore...

 

[pdqgp]

So you believe it's ok to let nutcases get guns and commit mass murder by not require a more stringent vetting process for potential gun buyers.

are you proposing the gov't pry into your medical records and forgo your privacy there?

[/quote]We already have laws in place requiring some checks, what's wrong with closing loopholes and making the checks better?[/QUOTE]

so do criminals and nut jobs obey the laws we already have?

all of the above has been debated for years. feel free to roam down the path of those threads if you wish.
[doublepost=1485982385][/doublepost]

We have. Read the New Colossus by Lazarus. If you know your history, you'll remember that it is enshrined on the Statue of Liberty. That can essentially define who comes, not the majority political party; e.g, Tyranny of the Majority.

and if you're history buff you'll know the POTUS does have legal authority to do what Trump's E.O outlines.

 

[jlc1978]

are you proposing the gov't pry into your medical records and forgo your privacy there?

To get a gun, sure. Look at the unstable types that legally bought one and killed many people. You think that is OK?

We already have laws in place requiring some checks, what's wrong with closing loopholes and making the checks better?

so do criminals and nut jobs obey the laws we already have?

And yet you expect those overseas would do the same?

 

[bradl]

and if you're history buff you'll know the POTUS does have legal authority to do what Trump's E.O outlines.

I never questioned the legal authority of EOs. Deflection noted.

I am questioning your statement of "we get the right to choose who we let in", when what is stated on the SoL states who we would take in. Are you wanting to rewrite that to state that it should be religion-dependent or depends on the colour of your skin?

I usually side with Tim (e.g. pushback on NSA privacy invasions, etc.)....but not this time.

Instead of playing politics, how about work on your products which aren't that innovative anymore...

He is working on his products. His products aren't designed on their own. they require people to do the designing and architecting. And if that talent isn't available domestically, he has to look overseas for that talent. And if that talent can't make it into this country to innovate those products due to Trump's ban, not only does Trump impede Interstate Commerce (commerce clause of the Constitution), but impedes true and fair competition.

You can't have it both ways here.

BL.

 

[gleepskip]

And who would somebody else be.

Stella in post #126. She said that X has been less than Y in the past, therefore my concern is unwarranted - as if terrorists monitor how many Americans are killed by gun-toting toddlers and ensure they never kill more Americans than that.

Bush 43 started this crap and every president since has continued dropping bombs on the Middle East. I pray Trump can knock out the radical Islamists (ISIS and Al-Qaeda), stop the endless wars, and put an end to inciting hate.

 

[Zarniwoop]

how about Apple hires Americans?

How about you 'muricans start to educate yourself to qualify for the job? You know, five years in college for software engineering or IC designing?

 

[jkcerda]

How about you 'muricans start to educate yourself to qualify for the job? You know, five years in college for software engineering or IC designing?

plenty here educated for that. when CO's ask engineers to TRAIN their replacements we don't have a shortage of U.S citizens that CAN do the job, we have POS CO's that want to save a buck by hiring foreigners.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Evidence?

Discrimination doesn't cultivate love. Within your country.

 

[c0ppo]

He can't be both? It's hardly a defense to claim someone isn't racist because they don't discriminate against every minority.

Sure, you can be both. But let me ask you a simple question. Since when is minority = race? Muslims are a minority, but muslim ≠ race. Amish are a minority, but amish ≠ race.

And if he is a racist, could you provide me with some arguments backed up with some cold hard evidence please?

I don't live in the USA, I don't even live in the english speaking country. So consider me like a complete doofus, and back up that theory of Trump being racist. Everyone calls him being that, but when I ask for evidence, no one gives any. All I hear/see is SJW crying their asses off, so please don't be that and give some real evidence.

I don't consider him to be racist, but of course, if someone proves otherwise, I will gladly admit that I am wrong.

 

[Zarniwoop]

You're right. Second generation immigrants are more likely to be radicalized and become terrorists.

This was the case with the French attacks. European born, second generation. Charlie Hebdo shooters were born in Paris to an Algerian origin family. In later attack in November 2015, the main attacker was born in Belgium. The family has Moroccan background.

I'm pretty sure, that Trump will put a Visa mandatory for European travellers too. Sooner or later.

I'm sure the tourist industry in Orlando is thrilled.

[doublepost=1485984449][/doublepost]

plenty here educated for that. when CO's ask engineers to TRAIN their replacements we don't have a shortage of U.S citizens that CAN do the job, we have POS CO's that want to save a buck by hiring foreigners.

Plenty, but not enough. Anyways, it is official that there is 4% unemployment rate in the USA. That makes it difficult to find talents from such a small crowd. Any European country envies such a number. But still you complain and are angry. Could someone explain?

 

[jkcerda]

This was the case with the French attacks. European born, second generation. Charlie Hebdo shooters were born in Paris to Algerian origin family. In later attack in November 2015, the main attacker was born in Belgium. The family has Moroccan background.

I'm pretty sure, that Trump will put a Visa mandatory for European travellers too.
[doublepost=1485984449][/doublepost]
Plenty, but not enough. Anyways, it is official that there is 4% unemployment rate in the USA. That makes it difficult to find talents from such a small crowd. Any European country envies such a number. But still you complain and are angry. Could someone explain?

what part of engineers were training their replacements was hard for you to understand? how the hell am I supposed to be "happy" when I am training MY replacement ?

 

[Zarniwoop]

what part of engineers were training their replacements was hard for you to understand? how the hell am I supposed to be "happy" when I am training MY replacement ?

Ok, I see. That happens here too. And then people apply for a new job. It isn't possible there where you live?

 

[Stella]

Stop putting words in my mouth, thank you.

You want to support this ban because "Just In Case some immigrant commits a terrorist attack"? True or not? Because it does sound that way.

Trump is Fear Mongering.

Stella in post #126. She said that X has been less than Y in the past, therefore my concern is unwarranted - as if terrorists monitor how many Americans are killed by gun-toting toddlers and ensure they never kill more Americans than that.
.

 

[jkcerda]

Ok, I see. That happens here too. And then people apply for a new job. It isn't possible there where you live?

when jobs are limited you are not going to be that "happy" hunting for a new job after some immigrant took yours.

 

[GoldenJoe]

Yeah, it's important to Apple alright. Those American engineers are expensive!

 

[Zarniwoop]

I'm sure Mr. Trump will lead by example.

 

[bluespark]

...but happy to keep banning Iranian iTunes apps!

Uh, no. This is required by federal sanctions law. This was in no way Apple's voluntarily decision.

 

[ericwn]

they should ALL be citizens.

Should? I'm guessing you mean inside the US they should all be citizens of the US. Not sure how you folks handle that but in most countries it is significantly more difficult to even receive a work permit if you are not a citizen or permanent resident.

In today's reality though the economy needs to import the super intelligent folks from abroad and as long as they cannot be produced locally that need will continue to exist.

 

[mikecorp]

lets review this, 2 weeks ago Iran was considered evil nation that preaches to destroy America. In Iran there is no freedom or happiness. Gay people are killed. Tim go visit.

 

[CarlJ]

Just recently the Ohio State attacker in November injured 13 people. St. Cloud mall attack injured 10 people. Manhattan bomb explosion in September injured 29 people.

You've identified 3 indcidents injuring 33 people:

1. The perpetrator in the Ohio State attack was "Abdul Razak Ali Artan": born in Somalia in 1998, moved from Somalia at age 9 in 2007 to a refugee camp in Pakistan, moved to the US in 2014.
2. The perpetrator in the St. Cloud mall attack was "Dahir A. Adan": born in Kenya in 1994, moved to the US at age 2 in 1996, became a US citizen in 2008.
3. The suspect in the Manhattan bomb explosion was "Ahmad Khan Rahimi": born in Afghanistan in 1988, moved to the US at age 12 in 2000, became a US citizen in 2011.

Only one of the three perps in the attacks you cited was born in any of the seven countries covered by the executive order (that was the requested criteria - 33% is a failing grade). The other two had gone through the lengthy process to become US citizens (perhaps we should vet people more closely then?), and one of them had moved to the US at the age of TWO (precisely how much anti-US world view do you think he formed by the age of two?).

Still, one out of three of the incidents you cited was, indeed, perpetrated by someone born in one of the seven countries listed in the EO (Ali Artan, who left Somalia at age 9, and injured 13 people).

Now, how about dealing with the second of thasan's questions, which you ducked in your response:

How many nationals from those 7 countries killed how American over the past 15 years?
How many white Americans have killed other Americans over the past 15 years?​

To make it fair, just list how many white Americans killed other Americans since the Ohio State attacks in November.

Now, explain how your response to one person born in Somalia injuring 13 Americans isn't all out of proportion to your response to the other violence in the US.

 

[gleepskip]

You want to support this ban because "Just In Case some immigrant commits a terrorist attack"? True or not? Because it does sound that way.

I support any reasonable effort that will keep dangerous people out of our country. I think that's the spirit behind what you're asking.

Trump is Fear Mongering.

No, I think the Islamic terrorists are the ones doing the fear-mongering. That's why we want to stop them. Trump is pointing out the obvious, which the previous admin refused to do.