Apple Considering Legal Options Against Immigration Executive Order

[Herdfan]

What exactly would this lawsuit accomplish? It's not a permanent "ban" anyway. It's is a pause on entry for people from countries on the terror watch list until proper vetting procedures are made.

Yep. Likely to be over long before any case sees the inside of a courtroom.

 

[5684697]

42

 

[severe]

Your bordering on Paranoia, if not more. More americans are killed by toddlers with guns than terrorism in the US.

This order will achieve very little in the way of "protecting" the US.

And this is why toddlers should be detained and waterboarded until they give the names of others involved.

 

[milo]

Sure, you can be both. But let me ask you a simple question. Since when is minority = race? Muslims are a minority, but muslim ≠ race. Amish are a minority, but amish ≠ race.

True that the Muslim ban is more correctly religious bigotry. But he is racist as well.

 

[5684697]

42

 

[gleepskip]

But he is racist as well.

Nancy Pelosi is racist.

 

[Superhai]

She said that X has been less than Y in the past, therefore my concern is unwarranted - as if terrorists monitor how many Americans are killed by gun-toting toddlers and ensure they never kill more Americans than that.

It should make sense to prioritize issues that kill more citizens.

 

[WRChris]

It is true that I don't have number or names, as I don't work for Apple HR (or Apple at all). And I don't think anyone working there would or should provide them, at least not the names. But the quote should be enough to show that there are employees directly affected. I have little reason to think Tim Cook would lie about that, especially being such a big profile case and probably many who would want to check it.

Sorry it took so long to respond I've had a heck of a day at work. I'm sure there are a select few employees that are affected but now that Tim has done this crap, there will be millions "affected". I would never expect them to release names but numbers were missing from his quote. The way he campaigned for Hillary completely discredits any public political cry he might make. Besides it is 100% not his job to openly campaign for any 1 person. Sure, he can, behind closed doors, but he is using his position with Apple to leverage his political ideology.

 

[dk001]

Should? I'm guessing you mean inside the US they should all be citizens of the US. Not sure how you folks handle that but in most countries it is significantly more difficult to even receive a work permit if you are not a citizen or permanent resident.

In today's reality though the economy needs to import the super intelligent folks from abroad and as long as they cannot be produced locally that need will continue to exist.

That's the problem. Instead of smart, most businesses are going for cheap.
[doublepost=1485991786][/doublepost]

Nancy Pelosi is racist.

She is an opportunistic racist. She is whatever kind of racist she must be at that time to garner votes and money.
[doublepost=1485991863][/doublepost]

It should make sense to prioritize issues that kill more citizens.

Night and day.
Killing people is problem A.
Inciting terror via terrorism is another.

Terrorism does not require dead bodies to be effective. Murder does.

 

[vikingjunior]

Does Tim Cook sit in on National Security Briefings?

 

[Superhai]

Any attempt to vanquish terrorism will always be touted as a "recruitment" tool for the bad guys by liberals.

I think fighting terrorism should be on a higher level than a never-ending liberals vs conservatives kindergarten quarrel.

How do extremists group win over people to their case? A number one reason is "look how they treat you".

And this is the exact reason why the current EO misses its point. By treating everyone affiliated with a nation as a terrorist, you are going after the nationals, not the terrorists.

Treating someone unfairly bad or marginalize them does not make people like you. It never has and never will, actually the opposite. Anger are what makes people radicalized. I don't care if it is Obama, or Trump, Democrats, or Republicans who do it, it simply just expands the hatred. Hence recruitment becomes easier.

It is the same thing with how Trump got their followers, they felt marginalized, ignored and treated as one singular uneducated mass (aka. the deplorables) by among others the democrats. So they joined his movement en masse.

If you believe a 90 day total stop in entry just is just a minor nuisance for people, then try this; see how well your life will be if you suddenly stop showing up to work for 90 days, ignore your wife for the same time, don't talk to your kids, etc.

If you want to stop the terrorists, you have to stop the terrorists, not anyone else. Anyone are potential terrorist, not just people from seven selected countries. By your standards should anyone supporting Trump be held for questioning, because someone supporting him shot 6 people in Canada. Because any remedy for a safer country should be implemented, right? even if it immobilize any other efforts.
[doublepost=1485994044][/doublepost]

Sure, he can, behind closed doors, but he is using his position with Apple to leverage his political ideology.

It was an internal letter within Apple, but usually anything Tim Cook presents will be picked up by the press. Tim Cook/Apple is not alone in this matter, nor the first. Amazon, Microsoft, Expedia are actually going forward with the lawsuit. As well as many other from corporate higher managements have spoken against it.

 

[WRChris]

I think fighting terrorism should be on a higher level than a never-ending liberals vs conservatives kindergarten quarrel.

How do extremists group win over people to their case? A number one reason is "look how they treat you".

And this is the exact reason why the current EO misses its point. By treating everyone affiliated with a nation as a terrorist, you are going after the nationals, not the terrorists.

Treating someone unfairly bad or marginalize them does not make people like you. It never has and never will, actually the opposite. Anger are what makes people radicalized. I don't care if it is Obama, or Trump, Democrats, or Republicans who do it, it simply just expands the hatred. Hence recruitment becomes easier.

It is the same thing with how Trump got their followers, they felt marginalized, ignored and treated as one singular uneducated mass (aka. the deplorables) by among others the democrats. So they joined his movement en masse.

If you believe a 90 day total stop in entry just is just a minor nuisance for people, then try this; see how well your life will be if you suddenly stop showing up to work for 90 days, ignore your wife for the same time, don't talk to your kids, etc.

If you want to stop the terrorists, you have to stop the terrorists, not anyone else. Anyone are potential terrorist, not just people from seven selected countries. By your standards should anyone supporting Trump be held for questioning, because someone supporting him shot 6 people in Canada. Because any remedy for a safer country should be implemented, right? even if it immobilize any other efforts.
[doublepost=1485994044][/doublepost]
It was an internal letter within Apple, but usually anything Tim Cook presents will be picked up by the press. Tim Cook/Apple is not alone in this matter, nor the first. Amazon, Microsoft, Expedia are actually going forward with the lawsuit. As well as many other from corporate higher managements have spoken against it.

It will go nowhere. The president absolutely has the authority to implement this law, it's been in the books since 02.

I disagree with executive orders to legislate, but there is precedent for this type of order.(Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, etc.)

It could be challenged by the Supreme Court but that is also unlikely to happen before the temporary ban is lifted.

Also, not to be argumentative, but a letter distributed within Apple is not any better than had he posted it here.

Terrorism should be treated like any other violent crime. No bombs, no torture. Just a legal trial in the country where the crime was committed. If that's not an option, sanction the unjust governments who will not prosecute the crime.

Bombing the Middle East hasn't worked and won't work. Torture hasn't worked and won't work. You can't justify killing civilians because you are trying to kill the bad guys.

 

[bradl]

It will go nowhere. The president absolutely has the authority to implement this law, it's been in the books since 02.

I disagree with executive orders to legislate, but there is precedent for this type of order.(Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, etc.)

It could be challenged by the Supreme Court but that is also unlikely to happen before the temporary ban is lifted.

Not too sure about that:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article130045039.html

Yemeni immigrants prevail in lawsuit challenging Trump’s executive order
BY ANDY FURILLO

In another legal ruling against President Donald J. Trump's executive order suspending immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries, a federal judge in Los Angeles signed an order Tuesday night blocking the government from denying entry to anyone from the affected countries who has a valid visa.

U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr. granted a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction sought by attorneys who were representing 28 plaintiffs from Yemen who have been held in transit in Djibouti since Trump signed his order on Friday. Plaintiffs lawyers said they represent an estimated 200 clients, including United States citizens, lawful permanent residents, and relatives who obtained visas after undergoing what they claim was an "extreme" vetting process that included security background checks.

Birotte’s order, however, went beyond the 28 plaintiffs to include "any other person from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen with a valid immigrant visa." The number of such immigrants is believed to be an estimated 90,000.

The ruling by Birotte followed similar orders issued by federal judges in Brooklyn, Boston, Seattle and Alexandria, Va. It specifically applies to a lawsuit filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles on behalf of 28 plaintiffs who the action claims "are United States Citizens and their alien relative beneficiaries (spouses and children) of immigrant visas to the United States."

The lawsuit was filed by attorneys Julie Ann Goldberg and Daniel Covarrubias-Klein. Goldberg is an immigration lawyer with offices in New York and Los Angeles who for two years has been working in Djibouti, an African country located across the Gulf of Aden from Yemen. Besides the Los Angeles suit, Goldberg also has filed an immigration action in the U.S. Eastern District of California, headquartered in Sacramento, on behalf of several clients in Fresno. The Fresno suit was filed last week under seal before Trump issued his executive order.

Goldberg said in an interview on Monday that her clients are a mixture of Yemeni-American U.S. citizens, some of whom have been working in the United States for a decade or more, and their families that had remained in their native country. Many of the people who had been left behind have since departed Yemen due to the country's ongoing civil war, Goldberg said.

"I have a bunch of children who cannot be with their parents, so many that are being separated," Goldberg said. "I have 3-year-old children who are all by themselves, and I can't get them out. Their mom and dad are lawful permanent residents. I've got a 6-year-old whose parents are U.S. citizens, but the child can't get a visa. The worst thing about the executive order is that it affects the women and children of U.S. citizens."

Goldberg's Los Angeles suit says the executive order "runs afoul of several fundamental components" of the United States Constitution and other statutory provisions of law. She wrote that some of her clients are spending between $5,000 and $8,000 a month while in transit in Djibouti and that they can't go back to Yemen "because doing so will put them at extreme peril given the bloody civil war currently raging in that country."

The suit said her non-citizen clients have paid fees and "have undergone and followed the thorough policies, procedures and background investigations in order to procure the immigrant visas issued to them."

One of Goldberg's clients, Murad Khaled Ali, is a United States citizen living in Fresno and is enrolled in a Master’s degree program in a marriage and family counseling, the lawyer said. Ali "has been living in Djibouti for the past week in anticipation of her Yemeni husband's (visa) appointment and is now stuck in Djibouti indefinitely as a result of the Executive Order." The lawsuit said the husband has been awaiting his visa appointment for two years.

In their request for a restraining order and injunction, the plaintiffs charge that the executive order violates their equal protection, due process, liberty and property interests under the Fifth and Fourteenth amendments. It also says that the order unlawfully singles out Muslims for an immigration ban while allowing Christians to come into the United States from the seven affected mostly-Muslim countries – Syria, Iran, Lybia, Iraq, Sudan and Somalia, as well as Yemen.

The complaint also raises the issue of Trump's business interests and charges that his executive order violates the U.S. citizen plaintiffs' rights as "being adversely impacted by defendant Trump's violation of the Emoluments Clause" of the constitution. While the president has no business interests in any of the seven countries affected by the immigration suspension, he does have them in other Muslim countries that did not come under the order, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, the United Arab Emirates and Turkey.

"Potential terrorist threats emanating from the latter list of middle eastern/Muslim majority countries – where the president has financial interests – are factually and quantitatively greater than those threats emanating from the seven countries on which the freeze has been implemented," the suit said. "Defendant Trump's signing of the Executive Order to the detriment of plaintiffs and those similarly situated, but also to protect his own personal financial interests abroad – which include presents and/or emoluments being made to him from foreign governments and/or their agents, servants, officers, employees or other persons acting in participation or concert with them, or under their direction and/or command – constitutes a violation of the Emoluments Clause."

Trump's executive order "protecting the nation from foreign terrorist entry into the United States" suspended the issuance of visas" and other immigration benefits" to the seven countries pending a multi-agency review to determine if anyone trying to immigrate from the affected nations is a security threat.

The immigration suspension is scheduled to last 90 days. The order also suspended refugee admissions from all countries for 120 days pending a review of that program.

It may be going to SCOTUS sooner than anyone thinks, as now 5 different federal judges have blocked Trump's EO.

BL.

 

[WRChris]

Not too sure about that:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article130045039.html



It may be going to SCOTUS sooner than anyone thinks, as now 5 different federal judges have blocked Trump's EO.

BL.

I wouldn't get your hopes up. There were plenty of judges against plenty of obamas EO's and they all just changed their minds or got overlooked.

 

[Superhai]

If that's not an option, sanction the unjust governments who will not prosecute the crime.

Trump believe obviously that sanctioning the people, not the terrorists, not the rogue or weak governments, is what will work. Including those who helped the US military for a decade, including their allies against IS. That will in the end turn away US support around the world, effectively making USA more vulnerable.

 

[WRChris]

Trump believe obviously that sanctioning the people, not the terrorists, not the rogue or weak governments, is what will work. Including those who helped the US military for a decade, including their allies against IS. That will in the end turn away US support around the world, effectively making USA more vulnerable.

Blowback is real, no doubt. We have been experiencing blowback for our actions my whole life(1989). I can't speak for what Trump believes, but our problems with the region is not from this week old temporary ban. It will inevitably cause some form of blowback.

 

[jlc1978]

Plenty, but not enough. Anyways, it is official that there is 4% unemployment rate in the USA. That makes it difficult to find talents from such a small crowd. Any European country envies such a number. But still you complain and are angry. Could someone explain?

The offical unemployment rate is misleading. It doesn't include, for example, people who no longer are looking for a job. Thus, it doesn't include people who would like a job but haven't been able to find one and have given up looking. As a result, we have areas with many more unemployed people but the statistics show full employment. If you are skilled and young the market is good; if you only have a high school education the jobs aren't there. Many kids don't see they will even be a successful as their parents, let alone more which every other generation was. For them, the "American Dream" isn't there anymore. Or, if you are older, say 40+ You may be unemployed because companies prefer younger (cheaper) people, even if you are more qualified. If you do get a job you are underemployed.

As a result, people are looking for someone to blame, whether it is "themselves other people taking your job," big corporations and there leaders getting rich while you get screwed, or politicians who failed you while they get rich. Once you have someone to blame it's easy to feel you are a victim of someone else's perfidity.

That isn't a uniquely American viewpoint, many other countries, including European ones, have politicians that use the same populist appeal; the difference is none have yet been able ride it leadership like Trump has; part of that may be the result of, in Europe at least, of their history. I have, for example, a friend who has lived in Europe his entire adult life and unless you know he was originally an American you would think he was European yet he still gets "Auslander Raus" notes in his mailbox occasionally. No country has a monopoly on idiots.

It may not be a rational viewpoint, but this is the resentment Trump tapped; and unless he really can bring manufacturing jobs back, which I find doubtful at best, he is in for real trouble in a few years. A number of his supporters aren't traditional Republicans but found his populist stances appealing. Quite frankly, if he does pull it off he will get reelection despite all of the other stuff he does.

Many Americans really don't care what the rest of the world thinks; US vs Them resonates with them. They believe if we just bring all those jobs back we don't need the rest of the world anyway; in many ways we are an insular people. 'America, Love it or Leave it" is not just an old sentiment from the 60's and 70's.
[doublepost=1486002588][/doublepost]

Good grief, this is junior high debate. There are people running around chanting Death to America in those countries and you want to talk irrelevant statistics. It is a freaking radical death obsessed ideology that is being opposed, not a religion or race.

Can we try to actually stop the next attack before it happens?

Sure, but the way to do that is rationally look at the causes and address them; not appeal to ignorance with unworkable but popular actions.

In my work in the Middle East I have worked with a number of Iranians who are pro-American, and would like to have normal relations, they are business people who just want to do business, buy American products because they view them as some of the best in the world, and be successful. lmagine what it like to all of a sudden be lumped in with a bunch of fanatics who do not represent their views nor those of a majority of their countrymen.

 

[sir1963nz]

Immigrant background using H1-B visas instead of Americans. F off Tim. How much cash now? $240 billion? Even more laughable is arguing temporary minor inconveniences to "hundreds" of employees comes before the safety of a country.

What safety ?
Number of US citizens killed by people from those countries, all added up into one big number comes to ZERO.

The number of US citizens killed by Muslims where America has oil interests or Trump has hotels is in the thousands.

Over the last 50 years more US citizens have been killed by vending machines, lightening, sharks.

STOP being frightened, frightened people do stupid things.

 

[budselectjr]

What safety ?
Number of US citizens killed by people from those countries, all added up into one big number comes to ZERO.

The number of US citizens killed by Muslims where America has oil interests or Trump has hotels is in the thousands.

Over the last 50 years more US citizens have been killed by vending machines, lightening, sharks.

STOP being frightened, frightened people do stupid things.

Opinions from non-Americans are automatically disregarded. You have no idea how disfunction our immigration system is so please shut-up.

 

[iBreatheApple]

Temp. Or. Ary. What don't you people understand?

 

[c0ppo]

True that the Muslim ban is more correctly religious bigotry. But he is racist as well.

Spoken like a true SJW. You guys are a laughing stock all around the world. See what I wrote here:

I don't live in the USA, I don't even live in the english speaking country. So consider me like a complete doofus, and back up that theory of Trump being racist. Everyone calls him being that, but when I ask for evidence, no one gives any. All I hear/see is SJW crying their asses off, so please don't be that and give some real evidence.

And all you can say is 'But he is a racist as well'.

Now go on telling yourself that. But I kinda feel triggered by that, I do believe it is a micro agrression against Trump

Unfu... believable

 

[Kabeyun]

Exactly. I wish people would understand this and quit acting like its the end of the world. Most of the protesters aren't even affected by this and just want something to complain about.

So your position is that you should only stand up against injustice that directly affects you?

Nice.

This is called cowardice or callousness and its consequences are eloquently illustrated in this poem by Pastor Martin Niemöller about the rise of the German National Socialist Party:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.​

 

[gnasher729]

Over the last 50 years more US citizens have been killed by vending machines, lightening, sharks.

"Killed by lightning" is _way_ ahead. However, apparently "killed by lightning while drowning" is also ahead. I wonder where "eaten by shark while being killed by lightning while drowning" is in the statistics.

 

[Snoopy4]

I still want Timmy to fix Safari.
[doublepost=1486040665][/doublepost]

So your position is that you should only stand up against injustice that directly affects you?

Nice.

This is called cowardice or callousness and its consequences are eloquently illustrated in this poem by Pastor Martin Niemöller about the rise of the German National Socialist Party:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.​

Oh brother. You guys have to sit down and breath in and out of a bag for 10 minutes.

 

[Stella]

No, I think the Islamic terrorists are the ones doing the fear-mongering. That's why we want to stop them. Trump is pointing out the obvious, which the previous admin refused to do.

And your fear of immigrants from those 7 countries has played right into Islamic terrorists propaganda.