Apple Considering Separate WWDC Conferences for Mac and iOS?

[Small White Car]

This notion floated by Steve and Apple that the iPad is replacing existing desktop/laptop computing is not valid.
...

The analogy that personal computers are like trucks and will be rare seems laughable.

No, he's right. It doesn't mean that the computer is going away. It just means the percentage will shift.

Imagine an average family today with 5 Macs (1 deskop and 4 personal Macbooks) and 1 iPad.

The future of that family is 1 iMac and 4 iPads. That iMac will be just as important as ever, but the days of every family member needing their own Mac/PC is ending.

That's why the truck analogy is wonderful. I still see trucks all over the place. We couldn't live without them! But there are more cars than trucks. That's all.

There will be more iPads than Macs. It doesn't mean the Mac won't be important in that world.

 

[huntercr]

Beginning of the end

Spit the conference, and the iOS conference will dominate. OS X will slowly disappear.

 

[Jaro65]

I think October would be great, with the release of the latest iMacs. But first update the Mac Pro, the MBA, and the mini, like tomorrow.

If not yesterday.... It will be really interesting to see what wonders they're going to do MBA, since it's taking them this long to update it.

 

[Yebot]

One of the key reasons Apple claimed why they were pulling out of Macworld was that it was terribly expensive to keep demonstrating products there when they could reach more people, more efficiently via video demos on apple.com.

So having two WWDC's throughout the year would seem to be an expensive proposition for both Apple and developers who are interested in both platforms.

Because they can sell-out a week-long WWDC in 8 days is why I feel it is more likely that Apple will simply make WWDC an 8 - 10 day event next summer. First segment will be iOS and 2nd segment will be Mac OS. Devs can buy passes for either segment or both.

 

[bazaarsoft]

Terrible idea that won't happen in the near future

Here's why: iOS is drawing more developers to the Mac (just as Mac developers were the first to jump on iPhone OS development). Separate the two conferences out and you'll no longer get the cross pollination that you get now. It's likely that the Mac OS is moving towards a more supporting role to iOS, but the key is that it's going to be a supporting role, not a disconnected role, so Apple still wants to encourage development for them both.

The Moscone center is HUGE so regardless of what Job's says, space isn't a problem. There are a ton of developers who do both Mac and iOS development and forcing them to attend both would be too costly.

 

[iMacmatician]

Won't happen. No one will buy a pro computer that is only app capable.

While I think iOS devices will move up over time (the iPad is the start), I don't think Mac OS X will disappear. Mac OS X will likely remain in future versions of high-end Macs.

 

[Small White Car]

Here's why: iOS is drawing more developers to the Mac (just as Mac developers were the first to jump on iPhone OS development). Separate the two conferences out and you'll no longer get the cross pollination that you get now.

Good point. It would be like taking the Apple stores and splitting them into iPhone/iPod stores and Mac stores.

THAT should seem like a bad idea to anyone, I'd hope. You're absolutely correct that this WWDC-splitting is pretty much the same thing.

 

[Gasu E.]

Because they can sell-out a week-long WWDC in 8 days is why I feel it is more likely that Apple will simply make WWDC an 8 - 10 day event next summer. First segment will be iOS and 2nd segment will be Mac OS. Devs can buy passes for either segment or both.

What he said.

 

[Schtumple]

I really hope Apple does this, this years WWDC was a bit strange being 100% focussed on the iOS, and with a separate event, we might see Apple finally hold a balance between the amount of developers used to work on iOS and OSX.

 

[ivladster]

Sounds good

I think that's a great idea if Apple would cut the price of the event by half. Many developers don't just do MAC or iPhone, they do both. Going to two events at $1500 a piece will be little harder. (on the other hand, it was sold-out, so maybe not)

 

[calderone]

The number of Mac OS developers who don't also need to know something about iOS is going to be very small very soon.

So let's not worry too much about them.

That may be true. I am not saying we shouldn't worry about them. But the overlapping developers are overshadowed by the vast number of the iOS developers.

My guess is that part of the problem is that many of the OS X developer simply couldn't get in due to the large number of iOS devs. This means that Apple would have to force an equal balance which may piss some off.

The size of Moscone and the number of iOS developers make it, I would think, very difficult for OS X devs to get in.

In addition, iOS devs may come to expect the same spotlight they are receiving this year. Which could become problematic for Apple as developers on either side get pissed off with the switch in focus every year.

For everyone ELSE they'll now be expected to pay for 2 trips. It's more than just the convention ticket cost. There's also airfare, hotels, and missed-work costs. Taking 2 weeks away from developing is a noticable dent in your yearly workload.

Oh I agree, it is far more than the convention. But many developers attend other conferences throughout the year. They may have to drop one of the others or they may just switch off if the cost is too great.

As far as the two weeks, I am sure their vacation time adds up to as much or more time off. And they aren't necessarily taking a break from developing.

Development doesn't stop when you leave your office. I often am developing in my head, and of course I am sure they bring notebooks.

In addition, they are there to add to their knowledge. In those sessions and labs they may be able to drastically improve their code or add new features. The conference is about developing. I don't think they are losing work but in fact making significant improvements in their technique and abilities. This is an extension of their work; educating themselves.

Add all that up and you'll end up with a lot of people who probably SHOULD go to both who are just picking one instead.

This is true, but I am sure there are more difficult choices. It really depends on how much they benefit. If the conferences help them bring in more money then they will go, if it doesn't offer much of a benefit then they won't. Just as they do now.

I'd be worried that you'd see that group of people grow: People who should attend both but end up only going to one. That's bad for Apple and they should avoid creating such a group of people.

Maybe, but Apple can do things to make it easier. I am sure they realize the consequences of doing this and may work to make it more affordable.

They could run them one after the other. This would at least reduce travel costs.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Newsflash

Or Apple could have two keynotes. I am sure Jobs can handle doing the iOS one day then MacOS the next or a few days later.

WWDC isn't one day, we don't need TWO conferences. Get a bigger location, have two keynotes, and give us some Mac goodness.

 

[CFreymarc]

And possibly offer a package deal should you choose to attend both conferences.

That makes a lot of sense. The issue is travel and access. Steve Jobs made a strong mention that "we can't find a bigger place" for a conference. This is true if you restrict your venues to the California Bay Area.

The Moscone convention center is the biggest venue for trade shows in day trip distance from Cupertino. However, not all of Moscone was used for the show. While Apple had Moscone West for WWDC, Moscone South was holding an architecture convention so the entire venue was not being used by Apple.

Personally, I would love to see WWDC in Las Vegas. There is plenty of venue space in that town and would bring back the spirit of the old Comdex days. However, I doubt if Steve wants to have WWDC that far away.

My guess is that they will stagger WWDC over two weeks. One week for iOS and the other for Mac with I'm sure sweet events happening the weekend in between. That way, they can have two keynotes and the Mac and iOS tracks use the same rooms. It is also very good survey information on who will be interested in Mac over iOS. I'm sure there would be an all in one conference fee if it goes like this.

 

[Peace]

There was no real reason to do a full on OSX WWDC this year because developers already have all the tools to build for OSX. The only exception being a new XCode. Mac OS won't be going to version 10.7 until either very late this year or the beginning of next year. Only a few new API's are being introduced in 10.6.* so no problem for developers.
Apple can introduce new hardware at special events throughout the year.

When Apple is ready to introduce 10.7 that's when we might see a separate WWDC event.

 

[JAT]

Meh, already going to a PC as my desktop.

Cool, I'll trade you this Dell straight up for any Intel Mac you may be getting rid of.

 

[DaveGee]

It isn't Apple's job to folks interested in OS X development. But even so, the

In addition, the Mac WWDC may well be smaller overall and can be supported in a smaller venue, thus a cheaper price.

The message is: iOS is too big and we need two separate conferences.

Yes okay I appreciate what you're saying but let's imagine just for a second that OSX developers DONT ALL LIVE IN SF CA.

Now let's try and explain how this isn't going to be an enormous burden for smaller developers who would LIKE to support both OSX and iOS.

Airfare, car rental, hotel, meals + WWDC fees (x2)

1 WWDC usually cost me 500ish for air and 130ish per nite for a reasonable hotel I skipped a car most times and food was usually covered with sponsor parties but the tick was still 1500ish and this is just one person flying from NYC (lots of reasonable flights to SFO). Still add it all up and even if apple comped the wwdc ticket it's still gonna run me 1500ish and apple isn't likely to comp the wwdc cost so 2500 or maybe 3k all said and done.

Now if you've ever been to a wwdc you'll know that developers fly in from around the world and unless they are rolling in cash, international developers are most certainly going to have to make a choice.

OSX or iOS

And if you like you Mac, chances are you will NOT like the platform they pick.

Finally, it's far from mandatory for an OSX or iOS developer to attend a WWDC in order to be successful, however they are a valuable experience none the less.

I'd be ecstatic to see Apple make ONE of the WWDC events a VIRTUAL EVENT this would kill a lot of FUN wwdc is usually known for and getting one on one face time impractical BUT the knowledge can still be effectively broadcast to the developers.

And as a way to possibly promote OSX development by iOS coders the virtual WWDC would be free with the purchase of the iOS centric 'live' wwdc in sf.

Now THIS I could certainly get behind... Win win win... The only losers would be hotels airlines and expo hall owners...

 

[kenaustus]

The past 18 months have been pretty overloaded for Apple, especially with delivering the iPad, iPhone (3 versions), finalizing the A4 and iOS4 for multiple platforms.

Now I can see Apple finishing work on 10.6.4, delivering it with iOS4. And releases of a new touch and some new Macs.

Next year's WWDC will probably be the time for a convergence session with OS X 10.7 and iOS5 being the tools used.

It would be interesting, however, to see a Quicktime based OS X "Keynote" and a few sessions delivered to developers as an interim solution. That might also open the doors to other types of Quicktime communications for Apple to have with developers and customers. Maybe even the press and shareholders.

 

[bazaarsoft]

It isn't Apple's job to folks interested in OS X development.

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but it is in Apple's best interest to continue to generate cross-polination of iOS and Mac OS development. The foundation for them is the same and in some cases so are the upper-level classes. I expect Mac OS to start adopting more of Cocoa Touch classes as well. Separating the conferences out would serve no real purpose.

The problem is that Moscone is not big enough. They sold out in 8 days and the majority were likely iOS devs.

They're only using part of Moscone (West) - there's plenty of space in the other areas (North and South). As a developer of both, I can't afford to go to multiple events - even with reduced event pricing, you're still paying for travel and time taken out of development schedules.

 

[Yamcha]

Good Idea, but I am a bit annoyed that there hasn't been any news about the upcoming iMacs? Its overdue, maybe Apple will be making dramatic changes??

 

[RawBert]

How about doing it next week?

 

[dgookin]

Deja Vu. I attended the last Applefest in Boston back in the late 1980s and heard the same chatter: Separate conventions, one for the Apple II and another for the Mac. That made it far easier for Apple (under Jobs, though it was Gasse speaking at the convention) to kill the Apple II.

To me it looks like same thing will happen to the Mac desktop line. I hope I'm wrong. If they release the iOS SDK for Windows, then we'll all know for certain.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

its a good idea. of course Apple ought to be paying more attention to the Mac OS, it feels like they have only been paying attn to the ipad, iphone for some time. that isn't so.... but there is limited space and attn they give to things, and if they split the conferences... it would allow them to focus better.

it would actually allow for them to pay more attn to the mac platform.

 

[Frobozz]

I think they should split it. If I was a MacOS developer right now, I wouldn't have much interest in the last 2 WWDC, really. They have been almost exclusively about iPhone / iOS.

Don't get me wrong-- that's exciting. But it says something about where the developmental resources are spending their time at Apple. Maybe Apple doesn't have much to discuss about OS X right now. Innovation is in mobile / touch computing right now, not on the Desktop.

But, at the end of the day, I think they need to seriously consider this. Split it into two conferences, or at least into two major groups at one larger conference.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

Good Idea, but I am a bit annoyed that there hasn't been any news about the upcoming iMacs? Its overdue, maybe Apple will be making dramatic changes??

how about supporting blu-ray across their entire product line. from desktops to macbook pro line?

even just to read and an option to burn to disc. they have great data capacity and it is a wonderful way to watch movies ... some of us have collections of them.

 

[calderone]

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but it is in Apple's best interest to continue to generate cross-polination of iOS and Mac OS development. The foundation for them is the same and in some cases so are the upper-level classes. I expect Mac OS to start adopting more of Cocoa Touch classes as well. Separating the conferences out would serve no real purpose.

I missed a word. But the point is that Apple shouldn't jam OS X development down the throats of iOS devs and more than they should jam iOS development down the throats of Mac developers.

Separating the conferences out would allow those who primarily develop for one or the other to get a conference dedicated to what they do.

The inconvenience is for those who develop for both. If Apple is seriously considering this, they have data we don't. And that would be how many overlap. If they don't find that number to be a compelling reason to keep them combined then that is the reality of it.

They're only using part of Moscone (West) - there's plenty of space in the other areas (North and South). As a developer of both, I can't afford to go to multiple events - even with reduced event pricing, you're still paying for travel and time taken out of development schedules.

If I recall SJ said "They couldn't get anything bigger." I am aware Moscone is bigger, and maybe they will be aware of that next year and get more space. And maybe they will indeed to what Small White Car was proposing which is have both at the same time while creating the schedule in such a way to maximize exposure to each area.

I agree with the travel costs. But not the development schedule. A development schedule should include time to take a look at new things and a developer conference is the best place to do it. They are taking time out now, so adjusting their schedule for a possible second conference to add onto your skill set wouldn't be a huge deal in my opinion.

In addition, this assume that the Mac and iOS devs are the same. This would definitely impact a one or two person shop. But for those that divide the two, sending the necessary members only impacts the development schedule of one platform, as it does now.

But again. My only point here is that if Apple has the data to back up the split, then it would make sense to do it.