Apple Corrects iPad Promo Video to Show No Flash Capability

[MattBaker]

Gruber's right, and he's wrong

As usual, The Gruber says it well:
http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/blue_boxes

(I think that link was already posted in this thread. It bears repeating.)

Excerpt:

Web site producers tend to be practical. Those that use Flash do so not because they’re Flash proponents, but because Flash is easy and ubiquitous.

(...)

Used to be you could argue that Flash, whatever its merits, delivered content to the entire audience you cared about. That’s no longer true, and Adobe’s Flash penetration is shrinking with each iPhone OS device Apple sells.

What’s Hulu going to do? Sit there and wait? Whine about the blue boxes? Or do the practical thing and write software that delivers video to iPhone OS? The answer is obvious. Hulu doesn’t care about what’s good for Adobe. They care about what’s good for Hulu. Hulu isn’t a Flash site, it’s a video site. Developers go where the users are.
​

Gruber is right, that developers will go where the users are. However, I'm not convinced we're as close to the tipping point as he wants us to believe.

Gruber is getting data from people inside the tech-influenced MacSphere, like LifeHacker. Contrast that with my general-purpose e-commerce sites, where under 1% of the visitors don't have Flash. More than 30% of my visitors are IE users who can't use HTML5.

I have no economic incentive to eliminate Flash now. Given how long it takes for browsers and PCs to get replaced, it'll take at least 2-3 years before I even need to consider a change.

(And, as a consumer, I'm going to buy a device that lets me watch the content that I want to see. I would want to watch sports on my IPad... except MLB & NFL & NCAA & ESPN are all Flash sites. So, I have no reason to buy an IPad.)

 

[Rocketman]

Are we there yet?

 

[jbcaro]

Apple needs to go back in time and review its 1984 Mac ad. It has become the Big Brother that it campaigned against.

 

[Journojulz]

Apple needs to go back in time and review its 1984 Mac ad. It has become the Big Brother that it campaigned against.

Nope - it is still the young woman throwing a tablet shaped future into your hectoring face.

 

[diabolic]

(And, as a consumer, I'm going to buy a device that lets me watch the content that I want to see. I would want to watch sports on my IPad... except MLB & NFL & NCAA & ESPN are all Flash sites. So, I have no reason to buy an IPad.)

Every single one of those you listed will have an app for the iPad, probably day one.

 

[pr5owner]

Obvious! And you didn't get it. The iPad doesn't want to be a a desktop computer, laptop or netbook.

My TV-set doesn't have USB, the paperback that I'm reading tonight doesn't have a hard disk, neither my Nintendo DS, my Monopoly game, my automotive navigation system.

The iPad is a new platform like an empty sheet of white paper. Click on an App and it turns into "that App".

maybe what you dont get is with apple products you DO NOT get what you pay for.

i dont know what your TV is but alot of newer TV's have both SDHC and USB Ports where you just plug in your drive and play any video or picture you want (including Xvid and Divx)

one example is the new toshiba OLED TV,

 

[thecoolone1]

Every single one of those you listed will have an app for the iPad, probably day one.

Why? So we can buy them at the app store when we can just go to the website for free? I would love to think the apps will be free but I doubt it, take the version of MLB at bat for example, not free during the season and what can that app do that we can't see by browsing online? Nothing.

 

[cmaier]

Why? So we can buy them at the app store when we can just go to the website for free? I would love to think the apps will be free but I doubt it, take the version of MLB at bat for example, not free during the season and what can that app do that we can't see by browsing online? Nothing.

It's not free during the season because you can use it to stream games. They also charge to stream games on the web (using silverlight).

 

[MattBaker]

Every single one of those you listed will have an app for the iPad, probably day one.

So, every time I think I might be interested in a site, I'm supposed to install an app instead?

That's insane.

 

[indiekiduk]

MacRumors new strategy: Make up a crap article, 2 days later make up another crap article to try to unjustify the crapness of the first.

Do better guys...

 

[martint84]

Why? So we can buy them at the app store when we can just go to the website for free? I would love to think the apps will be free but I doubt it, take the version of MLB at bat for example, not free during the season and what can that app do that we can't see by browsing online? Nothing.

In my opinion, you get what you pay for with the MLB app. Audio streaming was free to anyone who bought the MLB app, it costs money on the web (twice as much as the app!). Ability to easily navigate highlights and video on a small screen would be impossible without the app, regardless if flash was there or not. NO ADS!!!!! Mobile web site doesn't allow you to watch video at all. Notifications to give you score updates, starting times, fantasy updates, etc. Again, no ADS! Where else can you watch video on the web without ads these days?

Nothing?

 

[DubbaCTrumpetMS]

What a thread. I see both sides of the story, but don't really care. I'm getting one anyway. I can live without flash. If they fix it/replace it, whatever...I'm not going to whine because I can't play Farmville or view Hulu. I've got a TiVo for a reason. All you morons out here just to diss products...(yea, Ipadsad, you, for example) need to just...spend your time somewhere else. I couldn't care less about opinions like yours because all you do is trash stuff. I don't spend my time on an Android or a Windows forum with a name like Droidmakesmecry to rant about shortcomings of a device. If you don't see the point in the iPad, don't ***** buy it. Simple. Granted, I wouldn't mind having a flash 'option' to turn on and off in the settings, but it doesn't kill my desire to own an iPad...nor does the lack of a camera, USB, blah blah blah..that's what my macbook pro is for. Let's say it again...if you don't see the point in a device, or are only here to trash talk users/potential buyers of the device...get the hell out of here and get a life.

 

[mlblacy]

So good, it should all be in bold...

What a thread. I see both sides of the story, but don't really care. I'm getting one anyway. I can live without flash. If they fix it/replace it, whatever...I'm not going to whine because I can't play Farmville or view Hulu. I've got a TiVo for a reason. All you morons out here just to diss products...(yea, Ipadsad, you, for example) need to just...spend your time somewhere else. I couldn't care less about opinions like yours because all you do is trash stuff. I don't spend my time on an Android or a Windows forum with a name like Droidmakesmecry to rant about shortcomings of a device. If you don't see the point in the iPad, don't ***** buy it. Simple. Granted, I wouldn't mind having a flash 'option' to turn on and off in the settings, but it doesn't kill my desire to own an iPad...nor does the lack of a camera, USB, blah blah blah..that's what my macbook pro is for. Let's say it again...if you don't see the point in a device, or are only here to trash talk users/potential buyers of the device...get the hell out of here and get a life.

AMEN!

 

[RBR2]

LOL Shamed into telling the truth!

Caught lying is more like it.

Steve lied. He promised "all the internet" with the first iPhone, too. You can not access "all the internet" without Flash.

 

[hookedonitunes]

Did anyone stop to think that maybe the NYT is going to upgrade their website to not use flash for stupid things, like slideshows? Or upgrade their video to use H.264?

Edit: don't know if anyone posted this before, but I am not going to read through 26 pages to find out, so I apologize in advance if that is the case.

 

[Banyan Bruce]

This could be the iPad killer for educators

That's fine, but misses the point. Again, using a Educators tool like Articulate: you don't export what you create in it to Adobe Flash and then render it as a flash file for the browser. It just renders the flash files directly. So even if Adobe rolls out this "make an app" tool (I thought they had already), it won't make a bit of difference for Educator's tools like Articulate.

And Articulate is just one such tool. There are hundreds of them. Even if they do get re-done to export their renders to HTML5, javascript, and H.264, it is a different proposition to go from something a Teacher or Trainer with no HTML skills can post to something that will likely require an HTML programmer to post. Education budgets and programmer billings tend to not be readily compatible much of the time.

Without flash, numerous educational tools, like Articulate and Camtesia, will not function. Why would a School or College or University invest in a pile of iPads that don't deliver a huge proportion of its existing multimedia learning materials which are linked to LMS and SIMs for grading and reporting.

ibooks without interactive teaching and learning tools are likely to be dull and unattractive to young students. What about the flash tools used by students to develop flash content for other students...is there a HTML5 tool that does the same thing available now ?
A flash free web maybe the future, but until there is an alternative, flash is best we have (unfortunately). The iPad goes on sale in April 2010, not 2012 when HTML 5 is likely to be a viable option.

Apple get a grip, wean us off Flash, don't force us into Cold Turkey, because we have choice to buy or not to buy, and education is looking for value. A Flash free iPad doesn't offer value.
Flash could well be the killer app for the educational iPad.

 

[GoodWatch]

Nope - it is still the young woman throwing a tablet shaped future into your hectoring face.

It's not Apple but the gullible, brainwashed, Apple drones that make up the audience. The way some people are defending everything that is Apple or comes out of the mouth of St. Steve is bordering on the ludicrous.

"Resistance is futile". Your brain, never leave home without it please

 

[diabolic]

So, every time I think I might be interested in a site, I'm supposed to install an app instead?

That's insane.

Not really. It's not that different a paradigm from having a bookmarked site icon. In reality, for a consumer, an icon being an app or a bookmarked site is functionally the same.

So far, having the specific apps for sites I visit on the iPhone works well for me. Installing them takes a matter of seconds, and deleting them even less effort. It's not like you're installing a software package that takes much effort, time or space.

 

[RBR2]

Not really. It's not that different a paradigm from having a bookmarked site icon. In reality, for a consumer, an icon being an app or a bookmarked site is functionally the same.

So far, having the specific apps for sites I visit on the iPhone works well for me. Installing them takes a matter of seconds, and deleting them even less effort. It's not like you're installing a software package that takes much effort, time or space.

Ahhh...no!

 

[RBR2]

Without flash, numerous educational tools, like Articulate and Camtesia, will not function. Why would a School or College or University invest in a pile of iPads that don't deliver a huge proportion of its existing multimedia learning materials which are linked to LMS and SIMs for grading and reporting.

ibooks without interactive teaching and learning tools are likely to be dull and unattractive to young students. What about the flash tools used by students to develop flash content for other students...is there a HTML5 tool that does the same thing available now ?
A flash free web maybe the future, but until there is an alternative, flash is best we have (unfortunately). The iPad goes on sale in April 2010, not 2012 when HTML 5 is likely to be a viable option.

Apple get a grip, wean us off Flash, don't force us into Cold Turkey, because we have choice to buy or not to buy, and education is looking for value. A Flash free iPad doesn't offer value.
Flash could well be the killer app for the educational iPad.

When Flash completely disappears from the web and apps is the time for Apple to say "we don't need this any more". Until then, no Flash means no sale.

Steve lied. Without Flash you can not access "all the internet".

 

[RBR2]

Did anyone stop to think that maybe the NYT is going to upgrade their website to not use flash for stupid things, like slideshows? Or upgrade their video to use H.264?

Edit: don't know if anyone posted this before, but I am not going to read through 26 pages to find out, so I apologize in advance if that is the case.

Even if the NYT did that, so what? There are a lot of other web sites that have Flash and Flash applications.

 

[danny_w]

Without flash, numerous educational tools, like Articulate and Camtesia, will not function. Why would a School or College or University invest in a pile of iPads that don't deliver a huge proportion of its existing multimedia learning materials which are linked to LMS and SIMs for grading and reporting.

ibooks without interactive teaching and learning tools are likely to be dull and unattractive to young students. What about the flash tools used by students to develop flash content for other students...is there a HTML5 tool that does the same thing available now ?
A flash free web maybe the future, but until there is an alternative, flash is best we have (unfortunately). The iPad goes on sale in April 2010, not 2012 when HTML 5 is likely to be a viable option.

Apple get a grip, wean us off Flash, don't force us into Cold Turkey, because we have choice to buy or not to buy, and education is looking for value. A Flash free iPad doesn't offer value.
Flash could well be the killer app for the educational iPad.

Has Apple ever been known to just "wean us off" anything? Dropping firewire on the Macbook comes to mind. SJ said that all current video cameras used USB (not true) and dropped firewire, cold turkey. I'm sure there are other examples as well.

 

[RBR2]

Has Apple ever been known to just "wean us off" anything? Dropping firewire on the Macbook comes to mind. SJ said that all current video cameras used USB (not true) and dropped firewire, cold turkey. I'm sure there are other examples as well.

Maybe it is time for Steve to go. He plainly has a tenuous grasp of reality and is not bothered in the slightest by lying whenever it suits him. Just about anyone could have, and probably would have, done a better job of the "industrial design" of the iPad and coming up with the design specifications/objectives.

 

[cmaier]

Maybe it is time for Steve to go. He plainly has a tenuous grasp of reality and is not bothered in the slightest by lying whenever it suits him. Just about anyone could have, and probably would have, done a better job of the "industrial design" of the iPad and coming up with the design specifications/objectives.

You "Steve must go" guys have a strange notion of what the job of a CEO is, I think.

 

[avatar1632]

I have no economic incentive to eliminate Flash now. Given how long it takes for browsers and PCs to get replaced, it'll take at least 2-3 years before I even need to consider a change.

This is short-sighted. If you wait until you have incentive to change, you'll already be behind the curve. "Skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it is [now]," as Gretsky says. (emphasis mine)

How many months/years will it take to convert your sites from Flash to something else with equivalent functionality? I'd guess at least a year to do it right, given they're e-commerce things. It may be in your interest to start sooner rather than later. The longer you wait, the more it'll cost, too.

Are your sites even doing anything with Flash that can't be done just as well with non-proprietary stuff? Is the Flash just eye candy? Not trying to be combative here. Just asking reasonable questions.

Even if HTML5 is slow to be adopted, it's going to be adopted. Followed eventually by HTML6, etc. Flash will only be around as long as there's enough money in it for Adobe to keep maintaining the authoring tools and updating Flash's capabilities. Right now, naturally, that looks to be a long time but things on the Internet can change fast so there's no guarantee that'll be the case.

HTML will evolve to do anything it needs to do, as it's been doing now for over 15 years (I'm lumping all the HTML derivatives, such as XML, together, too), and it'll do so without requiring any money from its authors or users for the tools to create things based on it. If needed, anyone can code HTML/XML/DHTML by hand in a plain old text editor. The same can't be said for Flash.

Is your net profit higher by using Flash than it would be using (D)HTML/XML/etc? Have you gotten your money back on the investment required to develop sites based on Flash as quickly as you might have without Flash? Again, not trying to be combative or argumentative.

Flash has served its users well, and will continue to do so for some time. HTML (and its derivatives) is the better species, as it were, because it will evolve to do everything Flash can do. HTML, or something derived from it, will be around long after Adobe has either died itself or killed Flash for lack of resources to maintain it. All of which makes Flash an evolutionary dead end. It's a question of when, not if, Flash will go away.

Now, if Adobe decides to submit the Flash spec for official standardization, the way it has with PDF, then all bets are off.