Apple Could Soon Face 'Sweeping' U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

[BillyBurke]

Other hw companies SHOULD be able to make a smartwatch as good as the apple watch for the iPhone. Imagine if they were allowed to. No more boring square shape.

If someone wants to make a better text messaging app that combines multiple services. Let them. Why can't they integrate iMessage? Why should we be forced to use the messages app? How come you can link iCloud mail to different email apps, but not iMessage?

Why should any company try to excel at anything if their efforts are required to be watered down because manufacturer “x” can’t keep up? The “walled garden” is PRECISELY why I and millions of others buy into Apple. What about our “rights” ?

 

[SpaceJello]

Apple might have limited control over what an app does with the data it collects, but it will still be possible to toggle which information an app gets. If Apple designed iOS well, not app will be able to steal data from other apps. On a Mac you can install third party software and I usually have much more private information on my notebook than on my phone. My whole "adult content" collection is on my notebook and not my phone as well as all important documents. So Apple would have to explain, why a closed ecosystem is needed on a phone, but not on a notebook.

Computers are inherently more vulnerable to security issues. A computer and a smartphone are entirely different things. They may look similar, or act similar but their usage is different in many ways. While the line between them is diminishing, just because your notebook and current computer practices came with a long history of malware and viruses, that doesn’t mean smartphones etc. cannot establish their own security rules and avoid the legacy of PC security problems. What is enticing you to repeat the woes of the PCs on iOS? This is like asking electric cars to be run on diesel too just because you like it. Then, why not just but a car that runs on diesel?

Further, just because YOU uses your notebook to store all your personal content, doesn’t mean others do too. In fact, many more people have a smartphone and NOT a computer around the world.

I see it as a liberty that I can install any app I want on MY phone. Those who are afraid of viruses can just delete any third party app store. There are for example certain countries that I will not visit because of the high crime rate. But I am still allowed to visit them. That is the concept of liberty.

Actually, in your example, the appropriate comparison would be:

a) you having the choice to not visit specific countries with high crime rates
and
b) you choosing not to purchase a phone where you can’t install “any” apps from “any“ stores.

or

a) you choosing to go to that same country as above but deciding to live in a gated resort
and
b) you choosing to not install 3rd party app stores on your phone which allows for 3rd party apps

 

[Realityck]

If someone wants to make a better text messaging app that combines multiple services. Let them. Why can't they integrate iMessage? Why should we be forced to use the messages app? How come you can link iCloud mail to different email apps, but not iMessage?

As stated before iMessage is bundled feature app of Apple's iOS. Since it is end-to-end encryption messaging example, Beeper using various security weaknesses to make it work (use Mac, jailbroke iPhone, security hole) on a non-IOS device is not legal is it?

iCloud Mail does not use end-to-end encryption because of the need to interoperate with the global email system. All native Apple email clients support optional S/MIME for message encryption.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Nobody cares if you have the monopoly on something nobody uses. But the App Store has become too dominant and disrupts the market of mobile apps.

The Apple App Store has almost 2,000,000 apps. 2 million. With more being added every day.

Despite all the problems of the App Store... it still sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

a) you choosing to go to that same country as above but deciding to live in a gated resort
and
b) you choosing to not install 3rd party app stores on your phone which allows for 3rd party apps

That's all that regulators want: Give people the chance to install a third party app store. They will not be forced to install it.

 

[redheeler]

There are times that are needed to keep society safe. Obviously food, air and water are important as well as ensuring our financial system is safe. Those are quite different circumstances than regulating an app store.

In order to keep the financial system safe, and to encourage innovation to move our society forward, it sometimes becomes necessary to combat monopolistic practices that can result in the failure of a business someone has sunk a lot of time and money into.

A lot of people in this thread are coming at this issue from a consumerist mindset which is completely irrelevant to the actual complaint. It doesn't matter if you have choice between iOS or Android, a developer is forced to support both in some way in order to avoid missing out on a very large user base.

 

[HarryPot]

You are certainly free to live in such a country. I doubt there would be much happiness though. Being able to peruse your dreams and getting rewarded financially is what drives innovation.

When money is the only goal, as is in capitalism, especially in public companies, people are not so happy as well.

It’s not about going to extremes, and now go to a failed system like communism.

But I do agree with the previous poster that said that there is an amount of money where it gets obscene. Because the money they are getting, directly or indirectly they are getting at the expense of someone else.

True innovation never comes from persons that seek money. At least money is never their main driver.

 

[I7guy]

In order to keep the financial system safe, it sometimes becomes necessary to combat monopolistic practices that can result in the failure of a business someone has sunk a lot of time and money into.

Diasagree. An App Store will not bring down the economy as a bank failure some the size of JP Morgan Chase. And it’s My observation the MR forum definition of “monopolistic” is different than what is applied IRL.

A lot of people are coming at this issue from a consumerist mindset which is completely irrelevant to the actual complaint. It doesn't matter if you have choice between iOS or Android, a developer is forced to support both in some way in order to avoid missing out on a very large user base.

Another opinion. The App Store is an opt in digital market place. If a dev wants to increase their foot print the iOS App Store is one option. It’s lucrative because apple has become popular with a huge following, which is exactly why apple should maintain control.

Of course all of this is just discussion and we will have to wait to see what happens.

 

[I7guy]

When money is the only goal, as is in capitalism, especially in public companies, people are not so happy as well.

It’s not about going to extremes, and now go to a failed system like communism.

But I do agree with the previous poster that said that there is an amount of money where it gets obscene. Because the money they are getting, directly or indirectly they are getting at the expense of someone else.

True innovation never comes from persons that seek money. At least money is never their main driver.

Reward is the end of innovation. Why build a better mousetrap if you know there are no takers?

 

[redheeler]

Another opinion. The App Store is an opt in digital market place. If a dev wants to increase their foot print the iOS App Store is one option. It’s lucrative because apple has become popular with a huge following, which is exactly why apple should maintain control.

It's not one option, it's the only option. That's the problem.

 

[I7guy]

It's not one option, it's the only option. That's the problem.

It’s my opinion on the option. But I have no say on how this is going to go down. I just cast my ballot as I see fit.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Vote with your wallet.If you don’t like the offerings, don’t buy them.

Yeah, a purchase of Apple’s products is a vote for Apple to deliver exactly what was sold. Even those that buy the iPhone then jailbreak it are telling Apple “I’d rather buy your device and jailbreak it than to buy a device that is designed to easily let me do the things I want to do without being rolled back or prevented by a future update”.

 

[hagar]

The Apple App Store has almost 2,000,000 apps. 2 million. With more being added every day.

Despite all the problems of the App Store... it still sounds pretty good to me.

Thanks for making my point. I stated the store has become too big and dominant; that’s why the EU is going after it.
😉

 

[Realityck]

It's not one option, it's the only option. That's the problem.

Do you have any other examples of where a manufacturer that provides the hardware/OS had multiple app-stores allowed?

 

[Ethosik]

The fact that Spotify doesn’t work as a first first-class music provider in Siri and other Apple devices like the HomePod is probably the most egregious issue here for me.

This is a clear example of Apple abusing its dominant position in hardware to give its own music service an advantage over competitors.

(Spotify works great on Google and Amazon devices, of course)

Siri sucks and HomePod is basically on life support. There are MANY BETTER speakers out there.

 

[redheeler]

Do you have any other examples of where a manufacture that provides the hardware/OS had multiple app-stores allowed?

Mac

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The Apple App Store has almost 2,000,000 apps. 2 million. With more being added every day.

Despite all the problems of the App Store... it still sounds pretty good to me.

There’s only a tiny number of companies that can’t seem to produce a profit with the share that Apple provides. In particular, those companies that are offering exactly the same thing as other companies with a razor thin profit margin.

 

[Realityck]

Mac

Actually only one App Store still, and you can buy over the web just like you can on a PC.

Various games consoles offer only one app-store as a comparison.

 

[I7guy]

Actually only one App Store still, and you can buy over the web just like you can on a PC.

Various games consoles offer only one app-store as a comparison.

iOS also has multiple app stores with the proper certificate. You can’t just have a pop up App Store on iOS.

 

[redheeler]

Actually only one App Store still, and you can buy over the web just like you can on a PC.

Various games consoles offer only one app-store as a comparison.

Steam has an app store (not App Store) on Mac. Plenty of web-based stores also exist which can’t function on iOS.

 

[d686546s]

That’s just Apple (and others) providing their customers with valuable features and services, and it’s a big reason why Apple customers stay Apple customers. What’s the alternative? Apple will never be able to make AirPods work with Android as well as they work with Apple devices, simply because Apple doesn’t control Android hardware (nobody does, in fact, which is the biggest issue with Android). So if Apple is forced into feature parity, they’ll be forced to cater to the least common denominator—that is, nobody gets cool AirPods features because Android can’t get them.

I don't know what gave you the idea that Apple is supposed to offer any kind of functionality on Android. If they don't want to sell their AirPods to Android users, I don't have a problem with that (or vice versa if Samsung doesn't want to offer their buds for iOS).

My point is that there needs to be a more level playing field between competitors and the platform providers on the platform they do control.

Garmin, for example, has found its niche in the smart watch market, but Apple could always develop a watch that matches Garmin's advantages, but Garmin could never develop a watch that works as well with iOS as the Apple Watch because Apple reserves that functionality for itself. The same is true, and probably even more so, for earbuds.

The platform providers consistently have the advantage of being able, at least in theory, to match the competition for features and then give themselves a leg up by adding additional stuff that only works for their own products.

I'm not going to pretend that there is a clear and easy mitigation. The EU's focus on core features and APIs is an attempt, whether it will work we shall see.

 

[Ethosik]

How about the government spends time and money going after actual issues. If you need to limit to monopolistic type of issues, how about ISP? I’m sick of dealing with Spectrum’s poor service on a weekly basis. I have no other choice.

 

[Realityck]

I don't know what gave you the idea that Apple is supposed to offer any kind of functionality on Android. If they don't want to sell their AirPods to Android users, I don't have a problem with that (or vice versa if Samsung doesn't want to offer their buds for iOS).

My point is that there needs to be a more level playing field between competitors and the platform providers on the platform they do control.

Garmin, for example, has found its niche in the smart watch market, but Apple could always develop a watch that matches Garmin's advantages, but Garmin could never develop a watch that works as well with iOS as the Apple Watch because Apple reserves that functionality for itself. The same is true, and probably even more so, for earbuds.

The platform providers consistently have the advantage of being able, at least in theory, to match the competition for features and then give themselves a leg up by adding additional stuff that only works for their own products.

I'm not going to pretend that there is a clear and easy mitigation. The EU's focus on core features and APIs is an attempt, whether it will work we shall see.

Good points the difficulty is most acute with leveling the playing field when consumers prefer specific OS's.

Anyone using Android knows its advantages along with the numerous manufacturers, still here we are belittling Apple for its creating IOS for Phones and Tablets and then consumers are attracted to both as the two most usable smartphone solutions in the world.

Government types can't mandate that OS's should be free and Open in a fair way after all they spent years developing and perfecting the OS's along with app dev's writing Apps for each. Google has already done the equivalent of MS Windows in a clone like ecosystem vs MacOS for the smartphone marketplace.

Samsung failed with TIzen to attract consumers because the OS didn't offer the right apps or customization.

Forcing Apple to open their iOS is akin to removing a Google competitor and making the marketplace worse for consumers. There always needs to be choice.

There has been many other attempts with smartphones thru the years, at this point in time, they should only argue about app-store commerce nothing else.

 

[Ethosik]

Apple wants to break into gaming. It should tell the DOJ to tell Steam to force all game developers to create Mac versions of games in addition to Windows versions. Windows games have a monopoly on the PC gaming market and should be forced to make macOS games. Call of Duty is a billion dollar franchise that discriminates against macOS and should be forced by the DOJ to make a macOS version.

Its only fair if Apple has to open up its ecosystem.

Yep agreed. We are all screaming for interoperability.

 

[Ethosik]

I know this will be unpopular here. But this is good. Apple has gotten too big, and there is no way service providers like Spotify, Tile, Smart Watch manufacturers, etc can compete fairly with such a dominant player in the industry that has full control over its platform and provides competing services on top of it, obviously providing itself more favorable conditions. Half of the people defending Apple would think differently if it was Microsoft or Google.

I don’t have a clue what the solution is, but definitely something that has to be looked at.

This makes no sense. It’s quite common that Spotify is far better than Apple Music. You compete by having a better product. Maybe Spotify needs to get better instead of going to mom and dad government.