Apple Could Soon Face 'Sweeping' U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

[GeoStructural]

• Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
  • Who doesn't? I am sure most consumers know how to find apps that provide additional functionality if the Apple app doesn't provide.

If you don’t understand why that is a problem you are missing the point. Consumer protection and fair competition are protected by law, you cannot put your services first when you are also the only vendor, the one who approves the other products, and on top of that you are charging other providers for selling on the only store allowed, which only you control. It puts Apple in an insanely dominant position and third-parties in unfair disadvantage to compete.

 

[The_Gream]

• How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
  • Fair enough, not sure if this is anti-competitive or protecting customer location data

Not sure if anyone else remembers this (and to lazy to search for the story), but pretty sure early last year or so, Apple released or it was leaked that they are working with Google to expand the Find My Network between both OSes. With the plan to allow third party locator companies (like Tile) to use the network API as well.

People tend to forget, Apple is involved in so many “joint” programs with their own competition/rival tech companies that assist in pushing product/tech forward for the benefit of all.

 

[subjonas]

Forced at gunpoint? No of course not. But of course Apple, Samsung, Google and others are nudging you to their products by offering functionality that is withheld from competitors. In the long run that could very much drive all but a few companies out of certain markets for the sake of convenience.

You might not care from an individual point of view, but that undermines healthy competition and consumer choice, and in the wider sense, potentially jobs, innovation, and other impacts.

So is the proposal to outlaw all closed ecosystems? It’s too wide of a generalization to say that closed ecosystems negatively affect consumers, economies, and progress. There are trade offs as with anything including open ecosystems. Completely wiping away closed ecosystems and its benefits from off the table also undermines consumer choice in I argue an even more profound way.

The only thing I think should be outlawed is making it impossible or very difficult to leave or switch ecosystems (perhaps it already is to at least some degree). But I don’t mean enticing customers to stay with features they want. “Golden handcuffs” are not actually handcuffs because it’s very much a choice. That’s very different from say being unable to export data, which would be actual handcuffs.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Thanks for making my point. I stated the store has become too big and dominant; that’s why the EU is going after it. 😉

Then you misunderstood the point.

People make it sound like the App Store is this horrible awful place. Apple is so cruel and unfair and whatnot. It sounds like you share this opinion.

And yet... there are 2 million apps on the App Store. Developers make billions of dollars on the App Store. It can be an entire career for some developers.

So I often wonder what developers would be doing if the iPhone didn't exist. Maybe they'd be making Symbian apps today... or Blackberry apps.

 

[CordovaLark]

The sizeable amount of Corporate bootlicking is disturbing...

 

[d686546s]

So is the proposal to outlaw all closed ecosystems? It’s too wide of a generalization to say that closed ecosystems negatively affect consumers, economies, and progress. There are trade offs as with anything including open ecosystems. Completely wiping away closed ecosystems and its benefits from off the table also undermines consumer choice in I argue an even more profound way.

The only thing I think should be outlawed is making it impossible or very difficult to leave or switch ecosystems (perhaps it already is to at least some degree). But I don’t mean enticing customers to stay with features they want. “Golden handcuffs” are not actually handcuffs because it’s very much a choice. That’s very different from say being unable to export data, which would be actual handcuffs.

No, I don't think it's reasonable or desirable to outlaw closed ecosystems altogether, but equally when platforms become so dominant and ubiquitous as iOS (and Android) I don't think it's healthy to have very few bug companies increasingly competing in a growing number of areas with others on the very platforms they control.

Look at Apple. Twenty years ago they were a hardware company that also made good software. Now they are that and an entertainment company, a financial service provider, a digital service provider, through FaceTime and iMessage they offer influential communications services and whatever other sectors they want to grow in next.

I don't have a problem with that, but I don't think it's healthy if Apple wins by almost default just because someone bought an iPhone 10 years ago and Apple services are just the easiest to choose on their Apple device.

EDIT: I don't think there's an easy answer, frankly, and I'm not sure where exactly the line should be, but I'm pretty convinced that consumer choice alone will get us there, particularly if we allow the big platform providers to strengthen their golden handcuffs without any limits.

 

[Channan]

If #2 were a non-issue, people wouldn’t be complaining about it. It wouldn’t be one of the loudest complaints US iPhone users have.

It’s certainly their right to do whatever they want — but what they are doing is ridiculous and limiting from a user standpoint.

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean Apple is doing something wrong. There are other apps if you want to message Android users sans SMS.

We’re not debating what we would like to see Apple do. We’re talking about legal issues.

 

[HarryPot]

Reward is the end of innovation. Why build a better mousetrap if you know there are no takers?

Sure. If you make something great, you will receive gratification. And you will normally become rich and have a nice life.

But should there be insanely rich people that have more money they can ever dream of spending?

When more than 60% of American live paycheck to paycheck? And we are talking of one of the richest countries in the world.

Something just does not add up.

 

[Reason077]

Siri sucks and HomePod is basically on life support. There are MANY BETTER speakers out there.

Yeah. But there isn’t really an alternative to Siri on Apple devices. And future versions of Siri will hopefully get better once they start incorporating a real AI backend.

 

[JapanApple]

Siri sucks and HomePod is basically on life support. There are MANY BETTER speakers out there.

Siri has been bad from the start. HomePod deserves better support. AI will be that Siri (helpful) is not good compared to others.

 

[XXPP]

The USA is the stupidest country in the world. THE STATE is destroying its best enterprises.

 

[I7guy]

Sure. If you make something great, you will receive gratification. And you will normally become rich and have a nice life.

Maybe yes and maybe no.

But should there be insanely rich people that have more money they can ever dream of spending?

Yes. Who is the determinant of the line in the sand? And what is that line? There are wealthy people in very many countries, including disadvantaged nations,

When more than 60% of American live paycheck to paycheck? And we are talking of one of the richest countries in the world.

And the government has programs to help people. Robin Hood is not the answer.

Something just does not add up.

Some people are bright and lucky. Not everybody can be that.

Apple was in the right place at the right time. And by producing a product people wanted it grew. The smartphone market, unlike the cellular company market has no artificial barriers or monopolies.

 

[lartola]

But, say, $999 million would be ok with you?

no one needs to make more than 100k a year to live decently.

 

[lartola]

So buy an Android.

No. If I can only choose between apple and android then I’d rather have no phone at all.

 

[lartola]

So Apple should be required to accede to the whims of financial institutions who are either incapable of integrating with Apple Pay or, more likely, refuse to do so because they want to keep collecting and selling their customers’ data? Why shouldn’t banks be forced to integrate with Apple and Google Pay?

They’re not incapable, they just don’t want to pay apple. You’re aware that apple charges them hefty fees for apple pay, aren’t you? why should anyone force banks to pay fees to the big tech?

 

[MacBH928]

Apple ToS surveillance has reached a point where they will forbid you from viewing some Telegram groups. I am tired of it.

Let sideloading. Those who want the walled garden can have it, those who choose freedom can have it.

I can opt for Android, but Android sucks and a privacy nightmare.

 

[xander49x]

If people don't like Apple ecosystem then don't use it, it is that simple.

 

[lartola]

If people don't like Apple ecosystem then don't use it, it is that simple.

And with Android being the only other choice tham means don’t use a cell phone at all. Both options are too bad. For different reasons, but they’re very bad.

 

[avz]

The USA is the stupidest country in the world. THE STATE is destroying its best enterprises.

Unless Apple is slowly becoming THE STATE in its own right and all of a sudden USA becomes the smartest country in the world by taking preventive measures to ensure that the balance of power remains in its favor.

 

[mrochester]

And with Android being the only other choice tham means don’t use a cell phone at all. Both options are too bad. For different reasons, but they’re very bad.

Sounds like regulators should take some action to increase competition at the operating and ecosystem level then.

 

[jarman92]

They’re not incapable, they just don’t want to pay apple. You’re aware that apple charges them hefty fees for apple pay, aren’t you? why should anyone force banks to pay fees to the big tech?

Apple reportedly charges issuers 0.15% of the transaction. Considering the issuers typically charge merchants ~3%, I don’t think Apple’s cut (5%) even approaches “hefty.” It’s also unclear (and likely unknowable by anyone on the outside) whether the issuing bank or the payment processor—i.e. Visa, MC, Discover, Amex—pays Apple.

 

[wanha]

• In Apple example they have designed hardware to work with operating systems they developed (iOS/WatchOS).
• In Alphabet (Google) example they market their own smartphones in addition to letting many other smartphone manufacturers utilize Android.
• In Samsung example they created their own linux OS distribution (Tizen) which is now focused on wearables and is a close competitor to Apple

So the consumer does have choice out there, but the consumers are also what discouraged competition. (see below)

The fundamental reason the market didn't "encourage competition" is because of network effects.

The Windows Phone or any other "third phone OS" can't crack the market is because there are no apps for it. And there are no apps for it because consumers aren't buying the phone.

It's a virtuous circle for Apple and Google. It's a vicious circle for anyone outside of it trying to break in.

Network effects are incredibly powerful and left unchecked, they will further reduce competition in the market as the bigger continue to get bigger (until, of course, a disruption comes along and upends everything).

 

[mrochester]

The fundamental reason the market didn't "encourage competition" is because of network effects.

The Windows Phone or any other "third phone OS" can't crack the market is because there are no apps for it. And there are no apps for it because consumers aren't buying the phone.

It's a virtuous circle for Apple and Google. It's a vicious circle for anyone outside of it trying to break in.

Network effects are incredibly powerful and left unchecked, they will further reduce competition in the market as the bigger continue to get bigger (until, of course, a disruption comes along and upends everything).

So how do we break those network effects so that a new OS and ecosystem can enter the market? This is the problem no one seems to be addressing.

 

[bushman4]

Four year Old ongoing rumor used to manipulate Apples stock price
Any real substantiation?? Or is this just the Talking heads or Anal-ists (no pun intended) speaking

 

[hagar]

Then you misunderstood the point.

People make it sound like the App Store is this horrible awful place. Apple is so cruel and unfair and whatnot. It sounds like you share this opinion.

And yet... there are 2 million apps on the App Store. Developers make billions of dollars on the App Store. It can be an entire career for some developers.

So I often wonder what developers would be doing if the iPhone didn't exist. Maybe they'd be making Symbian apps today... or Blackberry apps.

Why would I think the App Atore is a horrible place? It’s a wonderful marvel, driving innovation in the mobile space and shamelessly copied by Android.

But… it’s the only way to get apps on millions of mobile devices and Apple is the gatekeeper determining the rules and faith of many many developers. So the EU has determined specific criteria to address the issues that stem from these gatekeepers. It will be interesting to see how the App Store and mobile space evolves in the EU. And how other countries will react. Many will follow, will the US?