Apple Criticized for 'Fundamentally Misguided' Approach to Stage Manager in iPadOS 16

[tobybrut]

How's it not done well? You can hide the left-side mini windows (the Manager part of the Stage, I guess). You can show or hide the dock. You can resize the windows and move them left or right. Pretty much how it works on macOS. Not quite as freeform as macOS, but most iPad apps aren't really written with arbitrary window sizes in mind -- perhaps that will change as developers optimize their apps for iPadOS 16.

I've not played with it too much on an external display to know all of its potential. I know I've done two good-sized windows next to each other, and of course several overlapping windows. Haven't tried to see if it'll do a 2x2 grid of windows, or a 1+2 arrangement, but again, it's not macOS, so the fact that we've gotten this far is pretty good. I'll try it some more later today.

It seems like people are expecting iPadOS 16 and Stage Manager to be macOS. That's clearly not Apple's plan.

Now. whether Apple should put macOS on the M1 iPads is a whole different discussion (one I'm happy to have, actually, because I'd love such a thing, and clearly if macOS can run with awesome performance on an M1 MacBook Air, it could run with similar performance on an M1 iPad Pro with essentially identical internal hardware).

It’s not the same hardware. People get confused because it’s the same SoC, but a computer is far more than its SoC. What handicaps macOS on a tablet, besides a non-touch interface, is the lack of a decent battery and comparatively poor cooling. If people thought the MacBook Air had poor cooling, just look at an iPad. iPad SoC clocks are lower than those on a Mac to prevent overheating. On top of that, the battery is smaller by comparison. IPadOS has a ton of power saving mechanisms completely absent in macOS.

This is why Microsoft has failed with its Surface Pro tablets. They stuck an OS that is optimized for a desktop onto a tiny form factor with a tiny battery. In order to make the battery life halfway decent, they had to use crippled CPU’s and no dedicated GPU. Basically what they produced was a mediocre laptop and horrendous tablet. That is what the iPad would be with macOS on it.

 

[User 6502]

Unfortunately this is the direction Apple seems to be going with a lot of its software updates lately. Another case in point: System Preferences in macOS Ventura beta!

Is Apple trying to do too much, too fast with its annual OS release schedule? Perhaps it's time they moved to a "tick/tock" model with major new features every 2nd year, followed by a release that focuses mainly on bug fixes, performance, new hardware support, etc? Would this give teams more time to ensure that significant new features like Stage Manager are really polished and well-thought out?

No, apple is definitely not doing too much. One would argue that have not done much at all for years with iOS, iPadOS and macOS in the last few years.

Quality is indeed rubbish, and it’s a shame that a mega corporation like apple struggles to upgrade their software at a sufficient pace with decent quality control. It seems that new software releases are all bugs and no features.

 

[Saturn1217]

I’m not bothered by stage manager per se. i don’t have an iPad that supports it and on my Mac I’ll just never use it.

What does make me angry is that there are very clear ways that macOS lacks in windows management compared to windows and instead of prioritizing that they are obsessed with bringing random iOS **** to macOS that is clearly not useful unless you are a very novice user who started with iOS.

I still need a third party tool for proper windows snapping (without needing to go into full screen which is NOT what people want when they asked for windows snapping). If I have a lot of windows belonging to the same application, switching between them still sucks (this is a very easy scenario to get into if you need to reference multiple pdfs opened in preview).

Apple should be making the assumption that casual users are more often picking up an iPad (or making do with an iPhone) over a MacBook. So macOS should be more and more targeting users who need the extra productivity of a full desktop operating system and prioritize that use case accordingly.

 

[spinedoc77]

There are no good Windows tablets. I bought one and it was the worst purchase of the decade. it was slow, underpowered, and the most user hostile experience I’d ever seen. It was a mediocre laptop combined with the worst tablet in the history of mankind.

For anyone considering a Windows tablet, don't let junk like this sway your decision. Try it out for yourself and make the decision based on your experience. If we are comparing anecdotal experience here, my experience with Windows on tablets has been superb BUT the caveat is that since Windows is an open system with hardware vendors the experience definitely can be terrible. The surface pros are the pinnacle of performance, and Windows runs incredibly well on them, conversely there are probably a lot of crappy Chinese tablets that run horribly.

 

[Spock]

It was not terribly intuitive for me on my Mac, maybe because I am used to doing it the old fashioned way.

 

[Ludatyk]

I've not played with it too much on an external display to know all of its potential. I know I've done two good-sized windows next to each other, and of course several overlapping windows. Haven't tried to see if it'll do a 2x2 grid of windows, or a 1+2 arrangement, but again, it's not macOS, so the fact that we've gotten this far is pretty good. I'll try it some more later today.

It takes it to a whole new level when Stage Manager is on an external display… you are able to place more windows on the screen. In addition to that, you have more space to work with.

For instance, I have trouble displaying three 2x2 grid apps/windows on the iPad screen whereas on an external display.. I could fit four 2x2 grid apps/windows easily.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

I’m not bothered by stage manager per se. i don’t have an iPad that supports it and on my Mac I’ll just never use it.

What does make me angry is that there are very clear ways that macOS lacks in windows management compared to windows and instead of prioritizing that they are obsessed with bringing random iOS **** to macOS that is clearly not useful unless you are a very novice user who started with iOS.

I still need a third party tool for proper windows snapping (without needing to go into full screen which is NOT what people want when they asked for windows snapping). If I have a lot of windows belonging to the same application, switching between them still sucks (this is a very easy scenario to get into if you need to reference multiple pdfs opened in preview).

Apple should be making the assumption that casual users are more often picking up an iPad (or making do with an iPhone) over a MacBook. So macOS should be more and more targeting users who need the extra productivity of a full desktop operating system and prioritize that use case accordingly.

What do you mean by "proper windows snapping"?

 

[DFZD]

I think it's a first version and Apple would improve over it tremendously in future versions. So people should tell them what they would like to have.

 

[Abazigal]

Unfortunately this is the direction Apple seems to be going with a lot of its software updates lately. Another case in point: System Preferences in macOS Ventura beta!

Is Apple trying to do too much, too fast with its annual OS release schedule? Perhaps it's time they moved to a "tick/tock" model with major new features every 2nd year, followed by a release that focuses mainly on bug fixes, performance, new hardware support, etc? Would this give teams more time to ensure that significant new features like Stage Manager are really polished and well-thought out?

I suspect it’s the downsides of working from home starting to make its impact known after two years of being away from the office. It would explain why Apple management is so eager to get employees back in the office. They would know what is at stake, more so than anyone else.

 

[xgman]

I hate stage manager as implemented on ventura. 3rd part solutions like hyperdock, dockview, and similar are much easier.

 

[Canubis]

Could Stage Manager be to Cragi Federighi what Maps was to Scott Forstall, if they release it half-baked?

Probably Stage Manager is too niche of a feature, many users probably won't even use it or notice its existence.

But it's not just Stage Manager, a lot of the software feels half baked in recent years and as much as I like the fun Craig brings into keynotes, ultimately he's probably responsible for the main direction all software at Apple is going – he would be the one to make bold decisions like focus on bugfixes or half-baked new features…

 

[xraydoc]

It’s not the same hardware. People get confused because it’s the same SoC, but a computer is far more than its SoC. What handicaps macOS on a tablet, besides a non-touch interface, is the lack of a decent battery and comparatively poor cooling. If people thought the MacBook Air had poor cooling, just look at an iPad. iPad SoC clocks are lower than those on a Mac to prevent overheating. On top of that, the battery is smaller by comparison. IPadOS has a ton of power saving mechanisms completely absent in macOS.

This is why Microsoft has failed with its Surface Pro tablets. They stuck an OS that is optimized for a desktop onto a tiny form factor with a tiny battery. In order to make the battery life halfway decent, they had to use crippled CPU’s and no dedicated GPU. Basically what they produced was a mediocre laptop and horrendous tablet. That is what the iPad would be with macOS on it.

Yes, probably true. Wouldn’t run the same as an M1 MBA. Could be close though (even if they had to limit the performance to fit in the thermal constraints), though I’m sure Apple doesn’t want to release something that performs worse than an MBA.

And agreed that battery life wouldn’t be great — it’s already not that great on the 12.9” iPad running just as an iPad.

But my point really was more of comparing iPadOS Stage Manager to macOS. They’re not the same, and they won’t be unless Apple offers macOS for iPad… which they won’t. But they theoretically could. But they won’t.

Anyway, I’m typing this on my iPad with Safari running on my attached Studio Display in Stage Manager. I’ve got a couple other windows up — one can kind of do a 1+2 arrangement with three windows (as I questioned in my post above), though since iPad apps only snap to specific windows sizes and not any arbitrary size, it’s a little awkward. But hey, before iPadOS 16, one couldn’t even do that. Can’t do a 2x2 grid but i was able to squeeze 4 functional windows on the screen with no overlap of any of them. Again, can’t pick arbitrary window sizes, so it’s a little janky, but that’s really a limitation of existing iPad apps. Not sure if that’s something that can be fixed with iOS’s current developer models or if it would require a whole new API to enable infinitely adjustable window sizes like on macOS. So my MacBook Pro still has a purpose.

Either way, it’s an improvement and lets me do things on my iPad that couldn’t have been done before.

 

[DanVM]

This is why Microsoft has failed with its Surface Pro tablets. They stuck an OS that is optimized for a desktop onto a tiny form factor with a tiny battery. In order to make the battery life halfway decent, they had to use crippled CPU’s and no dedicated GPU. Basically what they produced was a mediocre laptop and horrendous tablet. That is what the iPad would be with macOS on it.

I had a Surface Pro, and while it wasn't as good as an iPad when it's being used as a tablet, it wasn't terrible either. I didn't see any difference compared to my iPad when browsing the internet / social media and watching TV / movies.

As soon I attached a keyboard / mouse, the Surface Pro was far better than the iPad. Full desktop apps, optional docking station, better multitasking and dual monitor support.

IMO, the iPad is a better tablet. But as soon as you connect a keyboard / mouse, the Surface Pro jumps ahead as a better device.

 

[wasabah]

Same as many commented, I am annoyed at the screen space wasted. It doesn’t make sense on a small screen.
And I don’t want to see stacked windows, I want to see all content.

Actually the Android 12L implementation for Tablets and Foldables is exactly what I want on my IPad. It is actually taking a lot of the concepts from the IPad, but then makes it super easy to readjust the space for each app, adding apps with drag and drop etc.

See this video from 0:57:

 

[fwmireault]

Globe-control-backslash is your friend. Try it. It’s the keyboard combo to swap the current app to the other monitor. Forget hitting those three dots. That’s a pain.

Will try, thanks for the tip!

 

[DeepIn2U]

Stage Manager in the iPadOS 16 beta is receiving heavy criticism for being "fundamentally misguided" in its approach to bringing a new level of multitasking to the iPad experience, with some even calling on Apple to delay the feature entirely due to its shortcomings.

Federico Viticci, the founder and editor in chief of MacStories and a prominent member of the Apple community, outlined his frustration with Stage Manager in a Twitter thread earlier this week. Viticci says that design decisions built into Stage Manager are "fundamentally misguided," arguing that the feature is unstable, hard to use, and has user interface glitches across the experience.

"If Stage Manager is the future of iPadOS for pro users, I hope Apple understands that it can't be rushed. We waited years for this; might as well get it in Spring 2023," Viticci says, suggesting Apple delay Stage Manager's release entirely and rethink its approach.

Stage Manager, for the first time, lets users overlap windows and use external display support with their iPad. Apple's implementation of the feature, however, is not as clear-cut as some may have hoped.

iPad enthusiasts have yearned for the company to take better advantage of the iPad's power and multitasking potential, and Stage Manager is Apple's answer to those calls. The narrative around iPadOS and its inability to take full advantage of the iPad's hardware took a momentous leap when Apple brought the M1 Apple silicon chip to the iPad Pro in April 2021 and then to the iPad Air last fall.

Stage Manager is designed to only work with iPads powered by the M1 chip, another point of contention surrounding the increasingly controversial feature. Apple argues that only the unified memory architecture of the M1 chip, designed initially for the Mac, can power the heavy workload that Stage Manager requires.

Announcing Stage Manager at WWDC in June, Apple's senior vice president of software engineering, Craig Federighi, said, "With technologies like display scaling and virtual memory swap, we have the foundation for a big leap forward in user experience, one that can change how our Pro users get work done on iPad."

Stage Manager is one of just a few new features of iPadOS 16, but it's also present in macOS Ventura. While they share a name and the same fundamental idea, Stage Manager's implementation on iPadOS 16 and macOS Ventura could not be more different.

For instance, as Viticci noted in his early overview of iPadOS 16, Apple is looking to alleviate the heavy lifting often faced by Mac users of having to perfectly position their overlapping Mac windows to create an ideal workspace. With Stage Manager on iPadOS 16, the system automatically moves apps around to keep the main app in use in the center of the "stage" while other apps open "gracefully move to the side." As Viticci wrote at the time:
Viticci shared on Twitter two feedback reports he filed back to Apple about Stage Manager, still in testing. First, he suggests an easy way to move windows from the iPad to an external display, as it's currently not possible to do so. The other feedback report outlines how the system "destroys" workspaces for apps when connected to an external display.

For the latter report, Apple responded by saying it "behaves as intended," which Viticci calls "baffling." For the other suggestion to make it easier to move windows and spaces to an external display, Apple said after having "carefully considered" the idea, it won't be moving forward with its implementation.

Stepping away from the precedent in years past, Apple is planning to release iPadOS 16 later in the fall and not alongside iOS 16, expected in September. The delay in iPadOS 16's launch should give Apple ample time to address concerns around Stage Manager before it launches to customers sometime in October.

Apple is unlikely to pull Stage Manager from iPadOS 16 when it's released, although it could always opt to label it as a beta feature until it works through the kinks, as it did for Universal Control in macOS Monterey.

Article Link: Apple Criticized for 'Fundamentally Misguided' Approach to Stage Manager in iPadOS 16

Whatever happened to Jobs' mantra 'we don't ship junk'? Has it become we dont' ship period?

 

[Gigaman]

I haven’t tried the feature in a beta or anything so I’m not sure of the functional limitations, can you be listening to a song on Apple Music without the video you’re watching/listening to stopping?

 

[stocklen]

1. Is Stage Manager necessary, or does it even have a place on MacOS where multi-windowed multitasking already has several tried and tested ways of being managed? NO. I dont think it provides anything new or useful.

2. Does Stage Manager have a place on iPadOS? Yes, sure - but not in its current BETA form.
You have to remember of course that most iPad screens are smaller than MacOS laptops and desktops. There simply isnt the space for fancy wasted graphics.

Personally, there are elements I like... I like groups of apps on the same stage... although this is like split screen with 2 that stuck together before...
Its also fine on a 12.9" iPad, but I wonder how that translates to the smaller models...
However, the dock and stages simply shouldn't be ever present - YES i know you can turn them off but .... I think that the stages should appear with a swipe over from the left, and the dock a swipe up from the bottom...
But theres still something just a little odd about the whole thing - maybe its just because its a new thing - but now iPadOS has 3 distinct states - either looking through the app launcher, or having one or two apps open full screen, or the stage manager environment.

 

[F27]

This is why Microsoft has failed with its Surface Pro tablets. They stuck an OS that is optimized for a desktop onto a tiny form factor with a tiny battery. In order to make the battery life halfway decent, they had to use crippled CPU’s and no dedicated GPU. Basically what they produced was a mediocre laptop and horrendous tablet. That is what the iPad would be with macOS on it.

A macOS tablet would be more comparable to the ARM Surface Pro X rather than the x86 Pro’s.

Microsoft hasn’t failed with the Surface Pro, in fact it has been one of the most successful hardware lines they have ever done. It may not have as much appeal with average consumer’s (because it’s expensive compared to iPad’s) but it’s used extensively in the corporate world. For me the 8.1 Metro interface on a SP1 and the native apps was a joy to use and a vastly superior experience to iOS but unfortunately most people experienced it on a laptop hence the backlash. Windows 10/11 may no longer be as touch focused as 8, hence experience being not as good without a keyboard but I would much rather have full desktop level freedom running the back end any day.

 

[jonnyb098]

My 2020 iPad Pro apparently isn’t worthy. So I guess I’ll maybe get this in 2026, if I buy a replacement iPad Pro then… we’ll see.

That’s a massive problem……90 percent of iPad users will not get stage manager. Very very few have an M1 iPad and won’t for a couple more years.

 

[blackcrayon]

I haven’t tried the feature in a beta or anything so I’m not sure of the functional limitations, can you be listening to a song on Apple Music without the video you’re watching/listening to stopping?

No. This is pretty much baked into iPadOS- only one media player app can commandeer the audio system at once time. So the first app will be paused. I wish there were a middle ground with this though, though I'm not sure how it would be implemented.

 

[erikkfi]

I know Craig and his team seem to have botched the design and rollout of this new feature, and really mangled the explanation around why only the most expensive recent iPads will get it... but just look at that hair. Right guys?

 

[thethirdshoe]

"arguing that the feature is unstable, hard to use, and has user interface glitches across the experience."

It's BETA software, still BETA software, and guess what IT"S BETA SOFTWARE.

That's all you got???

 

[jonblatho]

There’s no way they’re going to delay iPadOS 16 when they need it for the iPad 10 (base iPad) in September.

Do they need iOS 16, as opposed to a 15.x release, for the 10th-generation iPad? Who said the 10th-generation iPad is coming in September?

 

[Ceecephous]

What's a computer? -Clearly not an Ipad.