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Apple debuting two-button mouse?
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Thoose who really think one button mouse is the future should open their eyes! Not everything Apple says is the law! What would you do on your iPod witout the scrollwheel? Use the buttons? If a user knows how to handle 5 buttons on an iPod they sure know how to do it on their mouse!
Keeping one button because it's easy to use is ********!
Keeping one button because it's easy to use is ********!
I was scanning through most of the posts but not each and every one, so excuse me if this was already discussed in depth.
The amount of mouse buttons is really not a matter of "less is more" vs. "more is more". It is more about OS design. Windows was designed from the ground up to work with two mouse buttons while the Mac OS was designed to work with one. If you look at most Windows software today (even Office for Mac), you'll notice that apps seem very crippled if you aren't using a mouse with two buttons many options are only accessible via the right-click and there is no way to right-click with the keyboard (please correct me if I'm wrong). On OS X, only the very high end pro apps like Shake require a multi-button mouse. Most apps work perfectly well with a single-button mouse because they were designed to.
An OS that is designed to work with a single-button mouse is fundamentally more usable and easier to use than one that is designed to work with two mouse buttons. From usability's point of view, less is more. The question thus remains, is OS X less productive because it strives for ease-of-use? As we all know (unlike most Windows-users), this is not the case because of the superb and logical keyboard shortcuts in OS X. In addition, OS X supports multi-button mice in the case you prefer to use one.
If Apple will start shipping two-button mice as a standard, it will change the way developers build their apps. Some developers will start taking the Windows approach and hide options behind contextual menus, degrading usability. I think choice is good (and when it comes to mice, OS X gives you all the choices in the world), but Apple should not abandon the superior fundamentals that lie in their OS regarding input devices.
Also, for touch screens and pens an OS that works perfectly with only one button input device is better. Or how do I right-click with my finger? CRTL-clicking is not very intuitive but it does activate your left hand (well, depending on your handedness) to lie on the keyboard which is great for shortcuts anyway. If you have ever observed Windows users they tend to have their left hand on their side instead of on the keyboard (I'm generalizing of course), while many "pro" Mac OS X users actively use both of their hands to control the OS.
Hopefully the two-button mouse will be an option, nothing more. Apple did the right thing when they designed OS X for single-button input devices, and they should never ever give developers an excuse to use contextual menus instead of "thinking different(ly)".
Thanks for reading my first post
The amount of mouse buttons is really not a matter of "less is more" vs. "more is more". It is more about OS design. Windows was designed from the ground up to work with two mouse buttons while the Mac OS was designed to work with one. If you look at most Windows software today (even Office for Mac), you'll notice that apps seem very crippled if you aren't using a mouse with two buttons many options are only accessible via the right-click and there is no way to right-click with the keyboard (please correct me if I'm wrong). On OS X, only the very high end pro apps like Shake require a multi-button mouse. Most apps work perfectly well with a single-button mouse because they were designed to.
An OS that is designed to work with a single-button mouse is fundamentally more usable and easier to use than one that is designed to work with two mouse buttons. From usability's point of view, less is more. The question thus remains, is OS X less productive because it strives for ease-of-use? As we all know (unlike most Windows-users), this is not the case because of the superb and logical keyboard shortcuts in OS X. In addition, OS X supports multi-button mice in the case you prefer to use one.
If Apple will start shipping two-button mice as a standard, it will change the way developers build their apps. Some developers will start taking the Windows approach and hide options behind contextual menus, degrading usability. I think choice is good (and when it comes to mice, OS X gives you all the choices in the world), but Apple should not abandon the superior fundamentals that lie in their OS regarding input devices.
Also, for touch screens and pens an OS that works perfectly with only one button input device is better. Or how do I right-click with my finger? CRTL-clicking is not very intuitive but it does activate your left hand (well, depending on your handedness) to lie on the keyboard which is great for shortcuts anyway. If you have ever observed Windows users they tend to have their left hand on their side instead of on the keyboard (I'm generalizing of course), while many "pro" Mac OS X users actively use both of their hands to control the OS.
Hopefully the two-button mouse will be an option, nothing more. Apple did the right thing when they designed OS X for single-button input devices, and they should never ever give developers an excuse to use contextual menus instead of "thinking different(ly)".
Thanks for reading my first post
For all you one-button lovers I hope Apple makes a 3-button mouse
OS X is after all is a cousin of SysV in the BSD way
But seriously, it'll be nice to atleast have the option to choose when buying a mac. And if someone can make a nice bluetooth multi-button mouse, it'd be Apple.
OS X is after all is a cousin of SysV in the BSD way
But seriously, it'll be nice to atleast have the option to choose when buying a mac. And if someone can make a nice bluetooth multi-button mouse, it'd be Apple.
F/reW/re said:
You're missing the point. Yes, we do have CTRL-click, true, but the OS was not designed to rely on it. It's not like I need to CTRL-click to access commands that are not there otherwise. Unlike in Windows. You don't need the second mouse button on OS X, but if you want to use it you can.
I'm not against the idea of having Apple offering a multi-button mouse, but I hope it will not become default as developers will inevitably, regardless of Apple's HI guidelines, start utilizing the contextual menu in the way they are used in Windows now. As long as OS X and the apps that run on it still are as usable with one button input devices there is no problem.
Apple is not being an elitist stock up company living in the dark ages, as some posters implied. They have the correct fundamentals going on here, and they should not change them because some users prefer two-button mice. After all, once again, we all have the choice of using any amount of buttons with OS X, two, three, eight, and even one.
there is no reason to argue about this, and here's why:
the new 2-button mouse will not be shipped standard
if you want it, you'll most likely have to pay more for the apple product or just keep the one you have
if you don't want it, then don't buy it.
no one is going to change their interface because of this, it's only a way to give more options to the user.
no big deal. the end
the new 2-button mouse will not be shipped standard
if you want it, you'll most likely have to pay more for the apple product or just keep the one you have
if you don't want it, then don't buy it.
no one is going to change their interface because of this, it's only a way to give more options to the user.
no big deal. the end
squeak said:
It's quite inconsistent that you can hold down the mouse button on dock icons to get the contextual menu and not in the finder, is it not? I agree that this feature should at least be implemented as an option to OS X. Again, not as default but at least provide the functionality to those who want it.
As for the GUI guidelines and interface builder, agreed they help and, well, guide developers quite a bit. But not all devs read them or utilize them for that matter. If OS X gains in popularity lots of Windows devs will cross over and skip the guidelines altogether. If they encounter a one-button mouse instead of a two-button one as a default, at least they are be reminded to "think different" with OS X, not simply design with Windows usability mentality (or lack thereof) in mind. Not that I want to offend anyone, but Windows really does lack in usability. Certainly it has it's pros as well (this comes from 15 years of Win experience), but usability is certainly not one of them. And the two-button mouse plays a part in that equation.
I have used both the single button and a 2 button with a scroll wheel. No comparison. I often found myself wishing for an easy way to roll down webpages, which the scroll wheel is extremely well designed for. No finding the little arrow, and carefully clicking, or draggin the bar. Just a quick roll, and your right where you want to be. And right clicking is second nature. I have a really good idea....
Apple, put 2 button mice in all your systems....
And simply allow the control panel to change the mouse settings so that the 2 buttons are the same. In other words, basically a one button mouse thats split. The people that some how believe one button on the mouse and one button on the keyboard (note, this is 2 buttons, and no matter how you slice it, would it not be easier to have them within millimeters of each other?) are the only way to go, can pretend. The rest of the world can get on to some serious computing, with simple right click cut and paste (one of the biggest things I use the 2nd button for) and smooth scrolling.
PS, I could forsee something along the lines of a laptop trackpad or ipod touch wheel for the scroll... IE, just rub your finger on the mouse, and thats your scroll wheel, no actual wheel installed.
I mean, really, your using 2 buttons one way or another.... Why not have them in one place? Instead you tie up 2 hands for a simple operation, that could be done with one.
Apple, put 2 button mice in all your systems....
And simply allow the control panel to change the mouse settings so that the 2 buttons are the same. In other words, basically a one button mouse thats split. The people that some how believe one button on the mouse and one button on the keyboard (note, this is 2 buttons, and no matter how you slice it, would it not be easier to have them within millimeters of each other?) are the only way to go, can pretend. The rest of the world can get on to some serious computing, with simple right click cut and paste (one of the biggest things I use the 2nd button for) and smooth scrolling.
PS, I could forsee something along the lines of a laptop trackpad or ipod touch wheel for the scroll... IE, just rub your finger on the mouse, and thats your scroll wheel, no actual wheel installed.
I mean, really, your using 2 buttons one way or another.... Why not have them in one place? Instead you tie up 2 hands for a simple operation, that could be done with one.
ok... so how do I copy a picture to the clipboard without using ctrl-click in Safari? You dont't need two buttons on Windows no more than you need them in OSX. I have a PC at work for website testing hooked up with the Apple mouse, because I use the Logitech on the Mac.Tinhead said:
decksnap said:
yeah, this is what i reacted to this whole thread with. as i read this and started laughing my girlfriend asked why..after telling her she said that holding ctrl is annoying (she just switched). but she was amused when i told her that i usually use ctrl and alt on a pc now.
pro applications usually use a slough of key commands and as such your hand is there anyway and i find it more comfortable to use the commands than to right click.
this whole this is funny because when i first bought a mac the first thing i did was buy a 2 button mouse with a scroll whell. eventually the mouse broke and i used the mac mouse and realized i had been using the key commands with my 2 button mouse. and i don't like scroll wheels.
1 button is a real utilitarian approach that works for some...and all i am trying to say is that there are more who iut works for than many might be led to believe.
I love apple one button mice. But why don't I use one now? Because it broke. The wire is thin on it and so the connection breaks inside much quicker than normal mice. THEN, when you look at the price of apple's mice compaired to normal mice, you almost have to get a two button with a scroll wheel because it costs less and you know it will be more durable.
As for one button VS two button, It's about the same as the guy above. I do use the scroll wheel sometimes, but I swear I'm the only person I know that is smart enough to know when to use the arrow keys and the pageup/pagedown keys etc.
You can always complain about numbers of buttons on mice. I'm sure if the Mac added one more, the PC would to so it would become a 3 vs 2 argument instead of 2 vs 1
As for one button VS two button, It's about the same as the guy above. I do use the scroll wheel sometimes, but I swear I'm the only person I know that is smart enough to know when to use the arrow keys and the pageup/pagedown keys etc.
You can always complain about numbers of buttons on mice. I'm sure if the Mac added one more, the PC would to so it would become a 3 vs 2 argument instead of 2 vs 1
Great, if Apple does this
(1.) Most of us in the real world aren't lucky enough to have all-Mac environments, so we're all too familiar with using multi-button mice, not to mention switching between OSs.
(2.) Have been spending my kid's spring break using an old HP two-button mouse with her iBook. Absolutely no problem whatsoever. Can't imagine why people actually still believe Mac GUI and multiple buttons don't work together.
(3.) In the never-ending battle with pro-Windows dullards, Apple took away one of their perpetual anti-Mac canards -- "It costs too much" -- with the intro of the Mac Mini. Let's hope it's about to take away another one -- "Its mouse has only one button" (which then should leave, primarily, "There aren't enough software titles for it," but Apple's probably already doing as much about that as it can, short of launching a ballistic missile strike on Windows-sucking developers).
(1.) Most of us in the real world aren't lucky enough to have all-Mac environments, so we're all too familiar with using multi-button mice, not to mention switching between OSs.
(2.) Have been spending my kid's spring break using an old HP two-button mouse with her iBook. Absolutely no problem whatsoever. Can't imagine why people actually still believe Mac GUI and multiple buttons don't work together.
(3.) In the never-ending battle with pro-Windows dullards, Apple took away one of their perpetual anti-Mac canards -- "It costs too much" -- with the intro of the Mac Mini. Let's hope it's about to take away another one -- "Its mouse has only one button" (which then should leave, primarily, "There aren't enough software titles for it," but Apple's probably already doing as much about that as it can, short of launching a ballistic missile strike on Windows-sucking developers).
tech4all said:Maybe by holding down Command and moving the mouse up/down right/left?
Your wrong buddy, you have to hold down the option button to scroll using the mouse.
F/reW/re said:
That's a good point about the clipboard, one that I haven't thought about. So yes, there are isolated cases where CTRL-clicking is required. Of course you could drag the image to the desktop and drag it from there, but it certainly is quite a bit more work than copying directly to the clipboard. In many cases you can simply drag the image directly onto the app you want it to open up with. This does not apply to Safari, I know, but it's a Safari-specific problem, not OS X-specific.
I suppose we are using quite different applications on Windows then, because I really am not able to operate the OS or it's apps without two buttons. Let me assure you, there are tons of apps that are only usable with a two-button mouse, and that's because so much of windows is right-click centric. I'm sure there are apps that don't require both buttons, say Photoshop for example (just a random app that popped in my mind), but I would claim that the majority of shareware and freeware apps really do. Even Office does to a very large degree. I was just listening to a friend talk about how impossible it is to use Excel with a PowerBook without an external mouse, for example.
If you are testing websites with a one-button mouse, then naturally you won't have problems. I assume you meant that you use Windows regularly with a one-button mouse and find it unproblematic. I can't agree, but it's not worth fighting over.
Lacero said:
Nowhere in the article did it mention they would come bundled with mac hardware. So guess what buddy, if you want it your still going to have to buy it. I assume it will be like the current Apple BT mouse, a standalone product.
second mouse button
I could easily do without a right mouse button, but not without a scroll wheel. That's why I don't use a mac mouse!
I could easily do without a right mouse button, but not without a scroll wheel. That's why I don't use a mac mouse!
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
jsalzer said:
I believe it was just a couple of years ago that Apple patented just such a thing (iPod style scroll circle on a mouse)...
