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Apple debuting two-button mouse?

It's about fricken time!

Why has it taken Apple 20 years to realize two buttons are good? I'm a Mac lover and always been basically anti-windows but after using Windows at work I've come to love having two buttons on the mouse and just about every UI element in Windows has some VERY USEFUL features programmed for the second button. I hope Apple is finally coming into the 21st century as far as this goes.
 
While I'd personally love to see a scroll wheel (or some form of scroll mechanism) on an Apple mouse, there are some problems which occur with multi-button mice that simply don't happen with Apple's mice.

Multi button mice tend to be a lot larger than Apple's, meaning the user's wrist must be bent backwards more to hold it. This increases the risk of CTS when using such a mouse for long periods (I know first hand, if you'll forgive the pun).

The buttons on multi-button mice can be awkwardly placed - as I found with a 5-button Kensington mouse I bought which was near impossible to pick up without hitting the buttons on both sides of the mouse.

But perhaps most importantly, with multi-button mice, the buttons have to be much smaller, meaning you have to adjust your grip to place your fingers over the required buttons instead of in the user's natural position. I had a lot of trouble with the old Microsoft "Ergonomic" mouse where my index finger would naturally hover the right mouse button so I had to stretch every time I wanted to click the left button. By contrast, you can hold the Apple mouse in any manner you choose and your finger is always on the button.

Multi-button mice (esp. with scroll wheels) have obvious advantages, but aren't without their drawbacks.
 
guytanguay said:
When you install a software like Shake (apple-3500$) or Maya Unlimited (Alias-8000$) the first things they ask you, if you want to use it on OSX-Mac system, is to go get a 3-Buttom Mouses (or 2, with scroll wheel) in order to use the software.
Click to expand...

Where, oh where, do you get decent 3-button mice?! The only ones I can find are low-end $8 Logitech "Classic" mice, which are barely acceptable but don't last that long. I'd pay a lot of money for a good, optical, WIRED (no #$#!! batteries), 3-button, NO #$@%!!!!! SCROLL-WHEEL mouse!

Yes, scroll wheels suck. Yes, I have used them. If you think otherwise, very good, but tell your doctor I said "hi" five years from now when you are suffering from terminal tendonitis. Also they scroll when I want to click and vice-versa. They suck.

Anyway, there are a lot of perfectly good reasons to stick with 1 button, which have already been discussed, so some people really need to get over themselves...just because you prefer more than one, doesn't mean everybody does, or should. I've been using 1 button at work for 8 years and prefer it that way. I don't even need to control-click. At home, I do different stuff (Blender being one of those stuffs. Also games). So I need more than one button. 3, actually, as I mentioned.

--Eric
 
SiliconAddict said:
ABOUT GOD *(#$)* TIME!!!

Putting part of the functionality of the mouse on the keyboard is NOT intuitive. Its not easy. Tell me what is easier. Splitting the functionality of the onscreen pointer between your mouse and keyboard and not showing the end user that you do indeed have context sensitive mouse clicks with this button over here on the keyboard. Or simply having all the functionality on one device. The keyboard mouse have two different jobs. Mixing those jobs does not make things simpler. It stifles a person's productivity because you are for all intents and purposes hiding a function of the system from a user and that is just plain stupid.
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I fail to see why both input devices, the mouse and the keyboard, could or should not be used in cooperation? Are you saying that the keyboard is only for typing in text and the mouse is only for inputting commands?

Most often humans have a specific command in mind when they want the computer to do something, ie "I want to save this file." Providing a specific keyboard shortcut (in this case command-s) does exactly what the user wants. They don't have to right-click and search for the desired command from a list. I don't see any drawbacks in using the keyboard as an input device to compliment the mouse or vice versa, especially since saving files can also be done via the menu bar (you know the one where the apple menu resides).

I highly doubt that Jobs' ego has anything to do with this matter. The one-button mouse was not designed by him, after all. And in case you didn't know, they did extensive research on the subject before they came out with the concept. The main reason why right-clicking is popular is because Windows is so heavily designed to utilize it, not because a one-button mouse is a flawed concept.

Also, OS X has always supported multi-button mice. You have always had the choice of the amount of buttons your mouse has. OS X has never required more than one, which is truly the best approach possible (see my further posts for arguments). One of the main reasons OS X apps are so great to use is because developers have been designing them for the one-button mouse, and because Apple has provided them with reasonably good GUI and HCI guidelines. This could very well change if they default to a two-button mouse.

You have to remember that scroll wheels truly started to emerge with the Internet (and the need to scroll long pages). A scroll wheel has always been a bonus in that respect, as there is nothing that it enables you to do that you weren't able to do before (functionality-wise, of course). With Windows, you are quite crippled if you don't have two buttons on your mouse, whereas in OS X the second button is considered a bonus, just like the wheel on Windows.
 
FruitMenu

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but...

Get FruitMenu.

Hold down single mouse button for 2 seconds and contextual menu pops up in Finder and many other apps (like Firefox).

Apple should extend this to all apps as well as scrolling if you hold down mouse and drag unselected space.

No need for carpal tunnelling multi-button mice :D
 
Personally, a mouse needs two main buttons, the left and right. A scroll wheel and forward/backward buttons by your thumb for webpages. Other useful and innovative ideas would be appreciated but those are all I really need.
 
decash said:
... I've stuck with the single button since my first LCII...

After arguing the case of the one button mouse for some 20 years (ie: good UID shouldn't require two buttons),...
Click to expand...
A multi-button isn't about just not about not having to CONTROL-CLICK. It's about having the programmability to change your volume quickly, open up a oft-used program, navigate back and forth through web pages or simply scroll up and down easily in a long document. The best UID in the world won't accomplish this. Multi-buttons are kind of like Apple's new Dashboard: they help you get things in front of you quickly without having to do a lot of steps. The 1-button mouse continues to keep you jumping through hoops.

decash said:
...in true Apple style this new mouse will not simply be a multi-button wheel mouse. It is likely to totally revolutionize the way we use the input device, I'd expect nothing less. The most innovative company in the world could very well change forever the point-and-click metaphor with this rumoured release. I would watch this space closely for Apple to say Hello. (again) (again).
Click to expand...
At present, Apple's 1-button mouse is perfectly symmetrical and too flat: just not ergonomic in the least. If they really want to be innovative, they need to come up with a multi-button mouse in either left hand or right hand that really fits the average hand. True with a perfectly symmetrical mouse, you don't exclude the poor lefties of the computer world (my dad & sister), but it is still not a real solution.

While I have no doubt that Apple could create such a perfect product that you're hoping for, to be able to do it at a price that people would pay and that Apple could actually make some money is kind of doubtful. Logitech's best mice are $69+ and all they really do is peripherals and small devices. Plus, they are catering to the PC world. Apple can't expect to really put out such a device that they could actually compete in the PC world as a "Maker of the Mouse" -- they can't. And it's too expensive to do a really amazing mouse for just the few Mac users who would give the mouse a try.

My first impression was that the Mac Legion would go for this. Now, I'm just not too sure.

Good Luck, Apple.
 
this sounds alright, i was thinking about getting one of the current BT Apple mice but i could not live without at least 2 buttons, CTRL+Click is just too slow. and what if i miss and hit Alt or whatever. nah. wouldnt suit Halo either.

if they release a 2 button BT mouse with a scrollwheel then im swapping my current Logitech V500 for one.
 
Tinhead said:
I was scanning through most of the posts but not each and every one, so excuse me if this was already discussed in depth.

The amount of mouse buttons is really not a matter of "less is more" vs. "more is more". It is more about OS design. Windows was designed from the ground up to work with two mouse buttons while the Mac OS was designed to work with one. If you look at most Windows software today (even Office for Mac), you'll notice that apps seem very crippled if you aren't using a mouse with two buttons — many options are only accessible via the right-click and there is no way to right-click with the keyboard (please correct me if I'm wrong). On OS X, only the very high end pro apps like Shake require a multi-button mouse. Most apps work perfectly well with a single-button mouse because they were designed to.

An OS that is designed to work with a single-button mouse is fundamentally more usable and easier to use than one that is designed to work with two mouse buttons. From usability's point of view, less is more. The question thus remains, is OS X less productive because it strives for ease-of-use? As we all know (unlike most Windows-users), this is not the case because of the superb and logical keyboard shortcuts in OS X. In addition, OS X supports multi-button mice in the case you prefer to use one.

If Apple will start shipping two-button mice as a standard, it will change the way developers build their apps. Some developers will start taking the Windows approach and hide options behind contextual menus, degrading usability. I think choice is good (and when it comes to mice, OS X gives you all the choices in the world), but Apple should not abandon the superior fundamentals that lie in their OS regarding input devices.

Also, for touch screens and pens an OS that works perfectly with only one button input device is better. Or how do I right-click with my finger? CRTL-clicking is not very intuitive but it does activate your left hand (well, depending on your handedness) to lie on the keyboard which is great for shortcuts anyway. If you have ever observed Windows users they tend to have their left hand on their side instead of on the keyboard (I'm generalizing of course), while many "pro" Mac OS X users actively use both of their hands to control the OS.

Hopefully the two-button mouse will be an option, nothing more. Apple did the right thing when they designed OS X for single-button input devices, and they should never ever give developers an excuse to use contextual menus instead of "thinking different(ly)".

Thanks for reading my first post :)
Click to expand...

This is the most reasonable post in the thread. (Edit: And I did read all the posts)

I see most people that argue for the multi button mouse only tell of their experiences and preferences, which is not an objective reason. I can say how I'm more comfortable with the apple standard mouse, so what? To each his/her own, but the reason to keep the one button mouse standard has nothing to do with that. It's how the Mac GUI was designed.

Buy whatever mouse you want as an option. There are so many to choose from. But Apple should keep the one button mouse as an standard to make sure that developers pay attention to making nice and simple UIs.

And, to all the switchers: go ahead, try the one button mouse... don't be afraid that you may love it after all :)
 
JFreak said:
i am certainly not computer illiterate, but i definetely enjoy the ease of use that mac systems offer. take that away and there goes the reason to use a mac in the first place. whatever apple does, it must make sure the systems continue to be very intuitive and user-friendly - and while i'm sure apple itself would continue doing that even if the standard was a 10-button mouse, i'm just as sure that all other software developers would sooner or later choose the easier way out. and THAT, my friend, is why it is essential for apple to sell one-button mice with their systems; just to give software developers a reason to make their software better and better instead of a bit worse each time.
Click to expand...
Yes, that too, of course.
 
Its a lot like.......

going from Nintendo (two buttons) to Sega Genesis (three buttons). That was a step for me getting confortable using 3 buttons instead of two. Now they have 5,6, 7, 8 or who knows how many buttons I still haven't gotten used to it all!! But I haven't really been playing console games in the past 10 years :)

So the jump shouldn't be bad from 1 to 2 buttons but there will always be people like me who are just behind the times and prefer the 2 and 3 button console games :)
 
I really, REALLY hope that they don't put two buttons on the powerbooks. I LOVE the single button. It makes it so much easier to use when you don't have to look or feel for which button you're pressing.

Keep the single button on laptops Apple, PLEASE!!!
 
I wanted to say something about this a few weeks ago, but I didn't now where to post this. There are many professional programs that require more than 1 button and a scroll. Like I have used photoshop and Rhino (PC Only), etc, and the scroll is useful. It allows you to zoom in which is needed almost constantly when designing things on the computer. Also Apple's own programs require a 2 button mouse, for example - Shake. (Ok so thats the only one). But they could have made other programs which relied on a 3 button mouse with scroll, but didn't knowing full well that it is not wise to promote a product that they don't supply.

In Conclusion, I agree that more often than not " Less is More ". And I do think the whole 1-button mouse by Apple is very intuitive. Thats why I like Apple and other firms alike, e.g. Bang & Olufsen - their mp3 player is a work of art, honestly, you have to use it for a month to realise it though. But, yes a but, I think it is a good idea to offer a very professional and very high quality 3 button mouse with scroll, and a bonus it should come in two sizes ( big & small), and its ok if they charge a very high price (£100+) for it. Because its for Pro's. And they should carry on supplying there current mouse with computers.

PS - They should use the scroll system on the pods, on a mouse. So its like a small stripe, where the index finger goes that you just slide your finger down to scroll. So its invisible to the eye, only after reading a instruction or being informed about it do you realise that the very sexy mouse has a scroll on it.
 
God!

I can't believe I'm actually responding to this one.

But...what if Apple release a new mouse similar to the mouse they currently sell, but is configurable?

Hear me out, by default it's a two button mouse you lean on the front left hand side and it clicks a left mouse click, you lean on the front right hand side and clicks a right mouse click.

However in the mouse properties you can set it up for the new two button mouse or a single button mouse which works the way we all know and hate (hell, I don't even use a mouse, I use a trackball).

Sounds simple to me and everyone would be happy.

Whatever...
 
jsw said:
I think single button mice are great for the first two days of using OS X. They're also great for children under five years of age.

But I pray that this is correct, because it won't mean an automatic mouse purchase whenever I get a new desktop Mac, and it'll let me use an Apple mouse.

But anyone who thinks single button mice are even remotely as productive as multi-button scrolling mice (God, I hope the new one scrolls...) must use applications very different from the ones I use.
Click to expand...

The argument of productivity is an interesting one. However here are the advantages of the one button mouse:

1. You don't have to remember which commands to use with the right button as there are none.

2. You don't have to remember the difference between left and right button commands, as there is only one side.

3. You know that commands that can't be done with the mouse will be found in the menus, and so you are forced to look for a topic menu that makes sense for the command you are looking for. Hopefully the programmer of the application you use has made this user friendly. Occasionally though some programs like Outlook and Entourage put what you'd think should be under Edit menu -> Preferences in the Tools menu.

4. Correlary to number 3 is that Macs only have one menubar to go to, unlike most other operating systems. On a system with multiple menubars for different applications, having a multibutton mouse makes more sense.

5. 3 and 4 point another thing that makes the one button mouse, and the one menubar a great thing. Simplicity of finding what you are looking for. That's one thing Apple has achieved better than anyone else, and why Macs are so much more productive than other platforms. So the argument of productivity can be pointed in favor of the one button mouse as much as against it.

6. Don't forget, some people have a hard time remembering the difference between right and left. In that way the single button mouse is a great disability aid compared to the multibutton mouse.
 
Who really cares its all about prefrences isnt it if you like 1 button then use 1 button if you like 2 x how many you can fit on a mouse then use that sort of mouse... A scroll wheel though is a great addition dosnt have to be on the top of the mouse how about along the side of it . Ok iam just going into dream land its ok ....
 
Squire[i said:
(...and, by the time you've quoted all the other people, you've forgotten what it was you wanted to say initially.:( )[/i]
Click to expand...

Excuse me, but I felt like throwing in another idea in the thread of "no brainers" Apple should be doing to capture more dollars (and euros) from Apple fans and switchers alike. The two button mouse is a no-brainer, and so is offering a 17" LCD monitor for the Mac Mini switchers so they don't spend the same amount of money on a competitor's [Dell] offering instead.

Really, it isn't that hard to keep up in the thread. I posted the 17" LCD monitor comment right after my previous comment supporting this two-button mouse rumor. You sure you aren't a single button mouse user? Can't be trusted to eject media on your own without receiving permission to do so from OS X?
 
blakemsf said:
going from Nintendo (two buttons) to Sega Genesis (three buttons). That was a step for me getting confortable using 3 buttons instead of two. Now they have 5,6, 7, 8 or who knows how many buttons I still haven't gotten used to it all!! But I haven't really been playing console games in the past 10 years :)

So the jump shouldn't be bad from 1 to 2 buttons but there will always be people like me who are just behind the times and prefer the 2 and 3 button console games :)
Click to expand...

I just had to reply to this because it brought back many good memories..

Of course, console games have only one input device, the controller, and because they are only used for gaming the games' complexity and functionality is directly related to the number of buttons on the controller. Street Fighter 2 needed a new Sega 6-button controller because the game had 3 different punches and 3 different kicks (well, to be precise a lot more with the combos and what-have-you). With computers, you have the keyboard, too, and it can be used to input commands as well.

I don't think you are alone in saying that the latest and greatest console controllers are getting too complex. Even the double L and R buttons on the front of the controllers in PS2 (PS1 also?) create a lot of confusion (the SNES controller had single L and R buttons and was much nicer in that respect).

It has nothing to do with you being behind the times. We are all humans first and experts or novices second. Humans have limitations and while you can surely learn to use a 8-button mouse or controller, that alone does not make it enjoyable or good design. OS X, while it certainly has its usability problems as well, is the most usable OS on the market today IMHO — again, thanks in part by the one-button mouse. As said many times before, if you don't like it, don't use it. No one is stopping you (OS X sure isn't).

Of course, this could be countered by saying that times are changing and due to the Internet we absolutely need many buttons and a scroll wheel in order to be productive (or at least in order to have a convenient computing experience). I don't deny the convenience of these what I like to call "extras", but let's not forget there still are many many people who have never used a computer in their lives/older generations who are not expert computer users. As a matter of fact, computer literate people are a relatively small breed. Pushing our own preferences down other people's throats is perhaps not the best design approach. At least Apple is putting some thought into all this, which is one of the reasons they have been classically called an idealistic company. Personally, I think it's something to look up to. Economically, I doubt Apple would die even if they did not add a multi-button mouse to their repertoire, this is just about attracting more Windows users and/or providing a true pro-mouse.
 
Pandering? Yes. A good thing? Yes.

iGary said:
Seriously, though...

Is this a move to pander to the Windows world?
Click to expand...


Yes.
While professionals have always known you could go and get a better mouse, many new Mac Mini owners won't. This is just another way of getting rid of the complaints Windows users have about the Mac platform. First, Macs are too expensive: Mac Mini
Second, only one mouse button: multi-button mouse.
No fast enough: Go Dual-core G5s.
Not enough games: ?

Apple is trying to fix what Windows users consider flaws in the Mac platform to lower switcher's resistance to actually taking the plunge.


As for the people who are worried that Apple will insist on this just this new mouse, I'm not sure. I have a distinct impression that the new Apple mouse will be an update to the wireless mouse and will be an add-on.
 
:) Hi again. I am going to change the extent of what I said earlier, due to reading that long post, very good by Tinhead. I agree that if apple have already made programs that dont't require a 3-button mouse, but can do simple things like moving the image or zooming in and out, just as esy or even easier without the need of a 3-button mouse, than its fair to say I'm all for the current 1-button apple mouse.

So the only tasks I can think of that may require more than 1-button is to play games with. Now, I do play games with my computer, and I know macs aren't best for games simply because there aren't as many available. I would mush prefer to play games on home consoles and do, but until they become fully online and have the communications (keyboard and Microphone) sorted out I will never use a computer to play games on again.

For the Scroll Wheel. The only thing that is done best with a wheel is quite literally scrollig down pages. If like the new powerbooks you can use a touchpad to scroll (I did mention this earlier), except the touchpad be on the surface of the mouse, and can only be used to scroll down pages NOT to move the mouse with, similar to the technology in the iPod wheel, except not a wheel but a strip of area where the index finger is. And also you only need to activate it with 1 finger (unlike the powerbooks).

Everyones talking about market share. That is crap, as soon as something becomes mainstream it gets ruined. The thing special about apple is the fact that they are not mainstream. They are unique and have indiviual ideals. It kind of makes you feel like they are making peices of art, not objects which sell in large quantities just to make $$$$. Which is what 99% of firms are here to do. There are only a handfull of firms that do what Apple do or like I mentioned earlier Bang & Olufen. And even Nintendo. There all innovators, they make peieces of art, not peices of s**t that are then put into jars and sold to flocks of sheep, on their hind legs.

Being happy is not wanting what you don't have, but wanting what you already have. Now you really need to think about that statement. There are only a few things that I absolutely love in terms of inanimate objects, and I'm willing to share them, I'm assuming the majority have similar ideals to me. My Beosound 2 (the iPod is the best HDD based walkman, but in terms of walkmans I don't really like the iPod, its not apple, its very sony, I feel it was made to promote apple, a backup plan. I do own 2 though). Secondly my iBook, and thirdly my nintendo's. If you don't know what the beosound 2 is google it.

My Finale. I feel they should only add a scrolling feature like the one i just mention, no extra buttons or anything like that.

Thanks for reading. I think this is a very good idea.
 
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