Apple debuting two-button mouse?

[sinisterdesign]

I mean c'mon... Who here uses their mouse to cut, copy, paste, save, quit, minimize etc?

ME! i have my 2 thumb buttons set to "close" and "quit". sure it's not that difficult to reach over & hit CMD-W, but it's a whole lot quicker to tap my thumb a few times to close a ton of windows. and do you CMD-Tab to switch btw programs? i click my scrollwheel & scroll back & forth btw open apps.

There is nothing that a scroll-wheel and a second button would do for my daily work in Photoshop, QuarkXpress, Acrobat & Illustrator...

i scroll around documents, unfortunately only up & down right now. i would love one of the new mice that scrolls side-to-side, but i can't justify the cost for buying a new mouse just for that. HOWEVER, i use the right-click ALL THE TIME in photoshop & illustrator. Quark is too bass-ackwards to recognize the right-click for anything useful, so i rarely use it in that program.

 

[decash]

While I have no doubt that Apple could create such a perfect product that you're hoping for, to be able to do it at a price that people would pay and that Apple could actually make some money is kind of doubtful.

Lets not forget though, that this mouse is likely to appeal to hardcore Mac fanatics moreso than your average user. Remembering that the Mac mini is advertised as 'BYODKM', Apple would hardly expect the new raft of switchers to part with $70 for something they already own.

I would imagine, after ititial R&D costs are offset, mice are extremely proffitable - their innards are cheap with eaily produced components, and moulded plastic shells can be stamped out en mass. I believe Apple is counting on its loyal core for this product. Look at the iSight: any firewire cam will work, yet iSight sales are phenomenal considering its price point. Traditional rules of purchasing theory economics are slightly distorted by luxury/veblen goods; as they tap a market that will pay at any price. Its your Merc-Mondeo argument.

 

[cliffjumper68]

What is the big deal?

I have used a two-button mouse with both my macs since I got them. Logitec makes a great one with a scroll wheel. I would rather Apple made a single button mouse with a scroll wheel than a two button mouse.

 

[mpw]

You're missing the point. Yes, we do have CTRL-click, true, but the OS was not designed to rely on it. It's not like I need to CTRL-click to access commands that are not there otherwise. Unlike in Windows. You don't need the second mouse button on OS X, but if you want to use it you can....

I wasn't aware that you needed the secound button for MS Windows either. Aren't all the contextural menu's options available through other menu and or keyboard shortcuts? This just means there are more ways of doing the same thing. MS for all their failings seem to be implying that the user may exercise choice in how they would like to do things. Is choice that bad a concept?

 

[hayesk]

I wasn't aware that you needed the secound button for MS Windows either. Aren't all the contextural menu's options available through other menu and or keyboard shortcuts?

No. Many commands are *only* available in the contextual menus. Apple shipping a one button mouse by default ensures that Mac app developers don't do this.

 

[hayesk]

Yes.
While professionals have always known you could go and get a better mouse, many new Mac Mini owners won't.

Given that the Mac mini doesn't even ship with a keyboard and mouse, and one of their ad slogans is "BYOKMD" (keyboard, mouse, display0 I don't think that'll be an issue.

 

[Blue Velvet]

i scroll around documents, unfortunately only up & down right now.

In Pshop, hold down the space-bar to get the grabby-hand.

Let go & you get the tool you were using before -- far faster than messing with your mouse.

 

[hulugu]

...I hope Apple is finally coming into the 20th century as far as this goes.

This is just a quibble, but the 20th century was the one where computers were invented (Babbage's machines excepted of course) and then progessed. So, in the 20th century, not only were one-button mice perfectly acceptable, but a mouse still referred to a small rodent.
You mean the 21st century, which will last from 2000-2099.
People do this a lot because it became standard speech, but the phrase "come into the 20th century" would either be ironic or would be intentionally anachronistic. Either way, it doesn't say what you want it to say.

 

[Tinhead]

I wasn't aware that you needed the secound button for MS Windows either. Aren't all the contextural menu's options available through other menu and or keyboard shortcuts? This just means there are more ways of doing the same thing. MS for all their failings seem to be implying that the user may exercise choice in how they would like to do things. Is choice that bad a concept?

Trust me, you do need it. Windows was designed from the ground-up to utilize this concept. Sure, not all apps need it, but I'd claim that the majority does. I cannot prove this obviously, but I'm sure that if you'd look into it a bit more you'd come to the same conclusion.

Windows is more or less forcing you to use a two-button mouse. Mac OS X isn't. Is choice that bad a concept?

 

[hulugu]

Given that the Mac mini doesn't even ship with a keyboard and mouse, and one of their ad slogans is "BYOKMD" (keyboard, mouse, display) I don't think that'll be an issue.

I think that's just the point BYOKMD gives an option, but wouldn't Apple like to pick up $30 here and there; and people still—because they're insane—think that Macs don't work with multi-button mice.

 

[mpw]

…It's funny to read some of the posts in this thread because I'm a windows user who uses the keyboard as much as possible. I do use the two-buttonness of the mouse when required but I always "Ctrl-C", "Ctrl-V" for copy/paste, hit tab to move to the next item, use the keyboard to switch between applications "Alt-Tab" etc. It just seems faster to me to use these combinations rather than move the mouse around all the time. I can't wait to get my Mac Mini (3/30 I hope) and learn similar keyboard shortcuts.

What is it with the number of buttons on a mouse that can make people so animated?

Those who use more than a single button calling single button devotees stupid and ignorant and those single buttons devotees saying categorically that anyone using a second of third mouse button should have nine digits removed to force their conversion!

I use MS Windows with a two button plus scroll-wheel mouse and a keyboard and find that I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts in addition to a little right click action and scrolling, I never use the click function of the scroll-wheel (lets face it nobody does and anyone who does is obviously deviant in some manner as the feature was put their by Satan himself to lure untainted souls to hell).

When using my Mac I use a four button plus scroll-wheel mouse and a keyboard and find I use the four buttons much more than when using MS Windows and only occasionally use the keyboard shortcuts. Obviously I don’t use the click wheel on a Mac either for reasons that need not be repeated.

My Mac experience has been greatly improved by using a multi-button mouse. My wife wouldn’t use the Mac until we got a multi-button mouse because she was use to MS Windows.

My three year old never got on with it until she used a multi-button mouse. What better test of intuitive design is there than an unattended 3year old learning by self teaching and exploration?

Do those that resist the change from a single button also despair at the preferences pane? I mean why give all those options to the user, if the GUI is to be truly intuitive users shouldn’t have the option to deviate from the only true perfect set up should they? What if for some reason I need to use my colleague’s machine everything should be in the same place and look the same so I can intuitively use it.

 

[sinisterdesign]

The argument of productivity is an interesting one. However here are the advantages of the one button mouse:

1. You don't have to remember which commands to use with the right button as there are none.

2. You don't have to remember the difference between left and right button commands, as there is only one side.

i believe you have reiterated your point. you said the same thing twice. that's redundant.

5. another thing that makes the one button mouse, and the one menubar a great thing. Simplicity of finding what you are looking for.

yup. it's right there easy to find just as soon as i right-click...

6. Don't forget, some people have a hard time remembering the difference between right and left. In that way the single button mouse is a great disability aid compared to the multibutton mouse.

and some people can't remember when to double-click, should we consider that as a failure of UI, too?

well, while i can appreciate not confusing my mother w/ the difference btw click, double-click and right-click, i consider myself an advanced user and like the flexability of a multi-button mouse. in fact, i use a Wacom tablet w/ 2 buttons in my left hand, keyboard shortcuts & a 4-button/scrollwheel M$ mouse in my right hand.

in fact, i have so many buttons & shortcuts, i didn't have to touch the keyboard to write this reply...

 

[kirk26]

I'm anxious to see how Steve will claim that Apple invented two button mice

what next?
the eject button on the cd-rom?

 

[sinisterdesign]

I'm anxious to see how Steve will claim that Apple invented two button mice

they did it backwards. they should have already had the 2-button mouse, stripped off a button and advertised it as "Life is a Single Click". it would have sold millions...

 

[notmenotyou]

I don't get it. Why release a two-button mouse now, after all these years with a one-button mouse? What has changed that Apple thinks it's suddenly necessary to sell a two-button mouse? And will it have a scroll wheel? Personally--and I think this is probably true for most Mac users--I've gotten so used to having just one button that switching to a two-button mouse would just be uncomfortable and I would probably never use the second button.

i think this two button mouse it's not for us as a regular mac user, i think steve release it for the "switch" user, i really think it will come out after MacMini Tiger release to the public.

 

[smirre]

I haven't even got a Mac yet but still I prefer one-button mouse for a mac. It's so pure mac stuff

 

[Insatiable]

I use a Wacom tablet for everything except Maya and gaming, for which I use a Microsoft IntelliMouse. Apple's one-button mouse is attractive, elegant, and completely useless to me.

 

[Bengt77]

Yeah, what IS he doing up there?!...

I wonder what Happy Mac is doing in Heaven?

Awwww, that's cute. I wonder what he's doing there, too. I think he's taking Clarus out on a looooooooong walk. A least, I hope he's doing that. God, I haven't seen them both live on a computer for quite a while already. Although Clarus wins that match by far, of course.

 

[sinisterdesign]

In Pshop, hold down the space-bar to get the grabby-hand.

Let go & you get the tool you were using before -- far faster than messing with your mouse.

i appreciate the tip, but i've been using pshop for about 13 years, i've used the grabby-hand a few times (that didn't come out right). i just like not HAVING to use a 2nd hand to get the same effect. sometimes i have my Wacom pen or an ice cream cone or whatever in my left hand. it's just yet another way of doing things. no better, just different. my mouse gives me options...

 

[maka]

The number of buttons in your mouse is not proportional to your level of computing and/or intelligence, ok? Plenty of professionals and "power" users use a 1 button mouse.

Simplicity and ease of use when designing an UI is not only for people that never used computers before. It's something good for all the users.

Apple should keep the 1 button mouse as standard to keep a nice UI and people can just buy something else if they need it. Apple would have to make 10 different models to keep all the multibutton lovers happy...

 

[sinisterdesign]

This is just a quibble, but the 20th century was the one where computers were invented (Babbage's machines excepted of course) and then progessed. So, in the 20th century, not only were one-button mice perfectly acceptable, but a mouse still referred to a small rodent.
You mean the 21st century, which will last from 2000-2099.
People do this a lot because it became standard speech, but the phrase "come into the 20th century" would either be ironic or would be intentionally anachronistic. Either way, it doesn't say what you want it to say.

not to quibble, but how do you know what he wanted to say? i used 2 button mouse more than 5 years ago. i think he meant to say "bring Apple into the 20th century". see, it underscores how behind the times they are. get it?

 

[pubwvj]

Pointless. More things to go mechanically wrong (button switches).

I have one hand on the the mouse and one hand keyboard.
Modifier keys give a many, many button mouse and are much
easier to use than a multi-button mouse.

It can be even easier than that though since on my PowerBook
both hands are on the keyboard and trackpad simultaniously.
No need to switch. Desktop keyboards should have trackpads.

 

[Candyfingered]

not to quibble, but how do you know what he wanted to say? i used 2 button mouse more than 5 years ago. i think he meant to say "bring Apple into the 20th century". see, it underscores how behind the times they are. get it?

Your statement still doesn't make much sense. Apple popularized the mouse and it was a one button mouse. However saying Apple needs to come to the 90's would have made sense since the 90s are the decade when multi button mice took off.

 

[rikers_mailbox]

I'm anxious to see how Steve will claim that Apple invented two button mice

Maybe, maybe not. But whatever sort of multi-button mouse Apple releases will be "insanely great" and will be superior to any other mouse available.

My question is. . . if Apple is finally succumbing to 2 button mice, can we expect 2 buttons also appearing on iBook/Powerbook trackpads?

I personally don't want that. There is always the option of using a mouse of your choice with any laptop. I think one button design is great for simplicity. I watch someone like my mom (who I still haven't convinced to use Macs) get screwed up with more than one button.

 

[Caiwyn]

My question is. . . if Apple is finally succumbing to 2 button mice, can we expect 2 buttons also appearing on iBook/Powerbook trackpads?

The original rumor made it sound like this is only going to be a wireless mouse. If that's the case, it stands to reason that Apple's current mouse is still their standard, and the new multi-button mouse is an aftermarket item.