Apple Debuts New 8-Core MacBook Pro With Updated Keyboard

[curtvaughan]

I own two 2016 MacBook Pros (don’t ask) and I had a minor problem with the T key on one (felt flat and skipped a few times) and the V key on another (soft). I blew both keyboards out with canned air in the prescribed fashion and things have been peachy ever since. I try not to eat near any of my laptops (iPad Pro is a different matter, since I have the Smart Keyboard), but the occasional crumb has made it by me. Given the number of MacBook Pros that Apple sells in a given quarter, I think the problem is real, but I don't think it is as catastrophic as the users on this forum make it out to be. If it was, I can guarantee you the loudest voices would drown out the people on the MacRumors Forums by a factor of 100x. Again, I really prefer the scissors keys in the Magic Keyboard w/Numeric Keypad and I hope Apple makes accommodation for those in the next iteration of the MacBook/Pro/Air. There is just a certain harshness to the keys that typing on all day reminds me of beating on the glass keyboard of an iPad before external keyboards became prevalent. Not as bad, but fatiguing after a while. I hate the mushiness of the 2012-2015 MacBook Pro keyboard, but I can type on it all day without the same level of "soreness" at the tips of my fingers after 4-5 hours.

I think my wish would be that people on the forums here could acknowledge that the keyboard isn't as bad as they claim it is, but after 4 years of this sort of stridency, that's a lost cause. I also doubt that anything Apple does is going to ameliorate those users, as I think the most vocal about the things they "lost" (SD, USB-A, HDMI, MagSafe) are way more pissed off about the price than any of those other things, at the end of the day. I have been buying PowerBook and MacBooks since the early 90's and so the pricing that I see is nothing especially crazy, but if you are used to paying $700-$800 for some POS Windows laptop that lasts a couple of years, I guess I can see how Apple's pricing might put people off. I think it drives them all a little nuts with envy more than anything. That's why so many want that light up Apple on the display and the startup chime back. They want people to know what they got, even if they deny it here like the plague.

The thing is, if you depend on your MBP for work and/or travel, even "minor" issues with a few keys or display issues arising from opening/closing the laptop regularly is bad. You bought the machine expecting stellar reliability from a premium device costing thousands of dollars. If I buy a cheap PC it's a risk I take in cutting corners to save $$. That isn't the case for a computer running 2/3/4 thousand dollars. I guess if I wanted to guarantee maximum reliability for travel and/or stressful environments I could get something like this:

... but high dollar Mac or PC laptops and desktops should hold up to normal use in normal environments (moderate temperatures, reasonably clean environment, void of abusive treatment or liquid/food damage). My original MBP(1,1), c. 2006, still runs. I've never had keyboard, display, or any other issues with it other than periodic need for a new battery (which I could purchase and easily swap, as the battery was user replaceable). I have never had to clean it or vacuum it in any way, though after 12 years its hard drive is beginning to exhibit issues. I paid $2100 for it when it was new, and it has been worth every penny. I wouldn't say such a thing for a laptop that exhibited keyboard issues, display problems, or overheating within 3 or less years.
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When will we start seeing reviews online about the new 15” MBP keyboard testing and quietness?

There are already a few preliminary reviews on youtube. Just search "MacBook Pro 2019". It appears to be largely the same machine as the 2018, with minor CPU upgrades and increased L3 cache. The display cable that was causing the "stage light" problems after opening/closing the laptop over time has been lengthened to relieve the stress causing eventual failure. It seems to have a similar keyboard, so only with time will we know of its reliability. If major improvements in design were involved, you'd think they'd wait until WWDC to announce/release the product.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

All really good points. It’s an odd feeling because it’s not necessarily that the iPad can do anything specifically that the Mac can’t do (aside from note taking), but it’s something about the experience of using the iPad that makes it more enjoyable for me. I almost feel like I’m not doing work although I’m working all day. I’ll jot down notes in split screen while reviewing a report and watching a video in picture in picture. All without a a hiccup. It’s almost like you don’t feel you are using a computer, no thinking involved, it just works and it’s extremely efficient. Again, for me.

The points you laid out are valid though and clearly don’t work best for someone like yourself. I respect that and your approach to this conversation. macOS just became way too buggy, cumbersome, and overall less focused for me so I decided to go all in with just an iPhone and iPad Pro. Obviously my career allows this, so not for everyone, but it’s been a very freeing experience for me.

That's the best explanation I've heard regarding iOS use. I can totally see how it is fun to use in many ways, and how it could fit certain pro careers.

I also agree that it is the future; eventually Apple could implement something like Dex so that your iPhone is the be-all-end-all, should you choose to make it so.

That said, I hope that Apple does not get tunnel vision and kill off macOS, because iOS is NOT a direct replacement even if Tim believes has been pushing for it to be so. I actually gave the iPad (and other tablets) a fair shake, but I just could not make it work as a primary device given the way I roll. But I look forward to when I can.

 

[DNichter]

That's the best explanation I've heard regarding iOS use. I can totally see how it is fun to use in many ways, and how it could fit certain pro careers.

I also agree that it is the future; eventually Apple could implement something like Dex so that your iPhone is the be-all-end-all, should you choose to make it so.

That said, I hope that Apple does not get tunnel vision and kill off macOS, because iOS is NOT a direct replacement even if Tim believes has been pushing for it to be so. I actually gave the iPad (and other tablets) a fair shake, but I just could not make it work as a primary device given the way I roll. But I look forward to when I can.

Yea that's kind of what it came down to for me - simple and straightforward, no upkeep, relatively low cost, and really fun to use. Oh yea, there are so many ways Apple could make the iPad/iOS so much better. They really need to get off this slow churn of a couple features here and there every year and really turn this thing into the future all in one that a ton of people would love to have. I don't think they will kill off macOS, but it will be more so relegated to just the Pro market, which they should have done in the first place. Go all in with a Pro focus (features, ports, modular, high end graphics, stop with thin) and turn your consumers to iPad/iOS. I think that's ultimately the plan, it's just taking too long. As I mentioned, I totally understand someone not being able to use an iPad, it was honestly a big challenge when I made the switch a few years back, but it has only gotten better and easier over time.

 

[Detnator]

You can.

I call BS. I keep hearing claims like this but every time I ask “how?” No one replies with anything useful. Care to change that?

 

[tjrmplsnyc]

Not upgrading until the ****** touch-bar is removed

Why so mad, man? I use the touch-bar all the time. It is actually helpful. Just update, and drink some decaf.

 

[x-evil-x]

A good thing for apple to do is give ifixit a new MacBook Pro to show what they have done to fix the problem. I’m sure a lot of us want to see what “better parts” really mean

 

[psingh01]

That's pure speculation on your part. I suspect it has to do with people having issues with their products and contacting the company or visiting the Apple store for repair.

It is naive to think that bad PR on popular sites like macrumors, youtube etc have no effect. Many people will google a product before ever going to an apple store. They'll look up youtube reviews to see what others are saying. They'll go to amazon and see the reviews. They'll inevitably find their way to sites like this or reddit and read opinions.

If people are on here complaining overwhelmingly about flaws in one component (the keyboard) it will get noticed by Apple.

When Apple takes the step to say that they'll fix any keyboard issues for free for 4 years after purchase they aren't doing that for the benefit of people who already had issues with the product. They are doing that for the people that are looking to buy and maybe having second thoughts based on what they are hearing/reading.

 

[Peperino]

Dear Apple,

We do NOT want a Touch Bar. Please make a MBP without a Touch Bar. Please, thanks, and goodnight.

Especially if Apple is overcharging $400.00 for it!!

 

[MacRazySwe]

Apple - Remove the Touch Bar!

...Funny thing is, it's the main feature that swayed me towards the MacBook Air. Yes Apple, your idea of upselling and lack of choice actually pushed me the other way around.

Good to see that they are actually updating their computers though. I'm especially happy about 4 years of warranty on my 3rd gen keyboard.

 

[Peperino]

You should be thankful Apple is trying to improve the keyboard.

We should be thankful?? is that ironic?
If you are planning to pay extra high prices for an MBP, the least thing you want it a keyboard that actually works.
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wow this forum is 90% trolls, I don't even know why I'm bothered commenting.

It is not trolls. It is the reality that Apple does not care anynmore about its computer line up.
How can you get excited about an MBP upgrade that delivers just a bump in processing speed and it is way overpriced?
PAthetic.

Apple
Yesterday technology at tomorrow prices

 

[DNichter]

We should be thankful?? is that ironic?
If you are planning to pay extra high prices for an MBP, the least thing you want it a keyboard that actually works.
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It is not trolls. It is the reality that Apple does not care anynmore about its computer line up.
How can you get excited about an MBP upgrade that delivers just a bump in processing speed and it is way overpriced?
PAthetic.

Apple
Yesterday technology at tomorrow prices

I don't think you're wrong here. Mac's have always been way overpriced in my opinion. Even so, they sell. Apple isn't going to change their approach when they still sell.

 

[Caesar_091]

Does the hack to use an nVidia GPU still works with newer MBP?

 

[applesed]

Especially if Apple is overcharging $400.00 for it!!

A 16 inch in 15 inch chassis with a usable keyboard without touchbar would sell extremely well right now. Hope it happens this year.

 

[Peperino]

I don't think you're wrong here. Mac's have always been way overpriced in my opinion. Even so, they sell. Apple isn't going to change their approach when they still sell.

Well, Apple has NOT been selling since Mac sales has been in the decline Year over Year.
It is a shame how Apple has been alienating its customers, by literally not caring a single bit about putting a decent MBP (that is after 2016). Instead of re-designing a keyboard that they tried to fixed 3 times already, they insist on fixing it one more time instead of re-designing. And still they expect us to pay top price for that???

No, thank you...

 

[Zdigital2015]

You seem to have missed one of the entire points of complaints about the lack of esc/fn keys. The complaints have nothing to do with toggling an option in the preferences. We want tactile response to the keys.

Maybe instead of making the touchpad the size of Chinese takeout container they could include *both* a touch bar *and* a proper row of function/esc keys.

As a professional developer who uses vim nearly 75% of my day, I'd gladly pay a couple hundred dollars more to have a proper esc key. IMHO it's literally the worst change Apple has ever made to a system since I started using MacOS in the System 7 days.

The saddest part is there are no other options. At this point I should probably just start looking for a Hackintosh compatible laptop before Apple moves away from x86_64, just to obtain a proper keyboard...

Tactile response to pressing the keys is what I think you mean. I take it that you do not type on an iPad or iPhone regularly using the onscreen keyboard either? I assume you would never want to use Prompt on iOS to SSH into a remote computer without having a physical keyboard.

Honest question...do you actually own or use a 2016-2018 MacBook Pro? Or are using something earlier (2012-2015)?

Also, I would assume that if you are using Vim 75% of your day that you are using an external keyboard with an external monitor. Am I correct? Or are you working somewhere with just the MacBook Pro (cafe, book store, et al.)? It's not a gotcha question.

I have empathy for what you are saying, to an extent...however, the computing world, at least on the Apple side of the equation, is moving away from the absolute certainty of a physical keyboard on each and every device. I would assume that you are done with Apple if they move to a glass type keyboard with no physical keys at all on the MacBook Pro?

I use Vim seldom, so I cannot relate to your need for a tactile response from the keys other than to attribute it to muscle memory. However, I would think that typing with both hands, you are going to look at the Fn keys during the day whether they are physical or not to orient yourself to keep from typing the ` key instead or to make sure you hit the correct Fn key (F1 instead of F2).

If Apple does indeed move to ARM, I would venture a guess that you are going to be looking for a Windows or Linux laptop at the point anyways if you need x86_64 compatibility for your development needs.

Good luck!

 

[DNichter]

Well, Apple has NOT been selling since Mac sales has been in the decline Year over Year.
It is a shame how Apple has been alienating its customers, by literally not caring a single bit about putting a decent MBP (that is after 2016). Instead of re-designing a keyboard that they tried to fixed 3 times already, they insist on fixing it one more time instead of re-designing. And still they expect us to pay top price for that???

No, thank you...

That's true, they definitely haven't been growing, likely due to the reasons you mention. Even with that, it's still a nice piece of business for Apple (due to the high costs).

 

[citysnaps]

It is naive to think that bad PR on popular sites like macrumors, youtube etc have no effect. Many people will google a product before ever going to an apple store. They'll look up youtube reviews to see what others are saying. They'll go to amazon and see the reviews. They'll inevitably find their way to sites like this or reddit and read opinions.

If people are on here complaining overwhelmingly about flaws in one component (the keyboard) it will get noticed by Apple.

When Apple takes the step to say that they'll fix any keyboard issues for free for 4 years after purchase they aren't doing that for the benefit of people who already had issues with the product. They are doing that for the people that are looking to buy and maybe having second thoughts based on what they are hearing/reading.

What's naive and most certainly adorable, is believing Apple takes guidance from MR forum members, the majority of whose comments are snark-ridden, whiney, and often in a race to the bottom to see who can come up with the best burn. And most of all juvenile, trashing Apple, Tim Cook, Eddie C, Apple's practices, and on and on. Who would listen and pay attention to that, other than others engaged in the same juvenile behavior?

 

[grad]

If they make a quad-core 32GB RAM 1TB user replaceable/upgradeable NVME 13" MacBook Pro with a matte screen, scissor-switch based keyboard, physical FN keys, NO T2 (in)security chip, a MagSafe power connector and a USB3.1 type A connector I might be tempted.

 

[applesed]

Tactile response to pressing the keys is what I think you mean. I take it that you do not type on an iPad or iPhone regularly using the onscreen keyboard either? I assume you would never want to use Prompt on iOS to SSH into a remote computer without having a physical keyboard.

Honest question...do you actually own or use a 2016-2018 MacBook Pro? Or are using something earlier (2012-2015)?

Also, I would assume that if you are using Vim 75% of your day that you are using an external keyboard with an external monitor. Am I correct? Or are you working somewhere with just the MacBook Pro (cafe, book store, et al.)? It's not a gotcha question.

I have empathy for what you are saying, to an extent...however, the computing world, at least on the Apple side of the equation, is moving away from the absolute certainty of a physical keyboard on each and every device. I would assume that you are done with Apple if they move to a glass type keyboard with no physical keys at all on the MacBook Pro?

I use Vim seldom, so I cannot relate to your need for a tactile response from the keys other than to attribute it to muscle memory. However, I would think that typing with both hands, you are going to look at the Fn keys during the day whether they are physical or not to orient yourself to keep from typing the ` key instead or to make sure you hit the correct Fn key (F1 instead of F2).

If Apple does indeed move to ARM, I would venture a guess that you are going to be looking for a Windows or Linux laptop at the point anyways if you need x86_64 compatibility for your development needs.

Good luck!

I might be in the minority but I use vi and don’t look up to find the escape key. And if apple comes out with a glass keyboard, I think they would release it only after it gives good tactile response, but then again they did this thing with the butterfly keyboard. My point is, it may be a couple years out.

 

[Peperino]

That's true, they definitely haven't been growing, likely due to the reasons you mention. Even with that, it's still a nice piece of business for Apple (due to the high costs).

I think it is not as big as they care to do a good product design.
The sad thing is that Apple could be selling twice as many units, if they just decide to make an MBP.
Many users are deciding not to upgrade just due to the many issues there are with the current MBPs.

1- with a keyboard you can actually type and works. Does not get much more basic than that. It is like buying a Ferrari and saying that only drives every other day.
2- That RAM and SSD are user upgradable.
3- They remove the touchbar (which should bring down the price by $400).
4- Fix the overheating.

 

[mindsaspire]

You seem to have missed one of the entire points of complaints about the lack of esc/fn keys. The complaints have nothing to do with toggling an option in the preferences. We want tactile response to the keys.

Maybe instead of making the touchpad the size of Chinese takeout container they could include *both* a touch bar *and* a proper row of function/esc keys.

As a professional developer who uses vim nearly 75% of my day, I'd gladly pay a couple hundred dollars more to have a proper esc key. IMHO it's literally the worst change Apple has ever made to a system since I started using MacOS in the System 7 days.

The saddest part is there are no other options. At this point I should probably just start looking for a Hackintosh compatible laptop before Apple moves away from x86_64, just to obtain a proper keyboard...

I agree. No idea why Apple couldn't have just left the physical function buttons in place by just shrinking the enormous touch pad a bit and make everybody happy (well, assuming the keyboard works!). As a fellow Vim user, I do however recommend using Ctrl-[ instead of the physical Escape key. It takes rebuilding some muscle memory in the fingers but I find it actually more comfortable because there's even less hand movement than reaching up and hitting Escape. And don't forget to remap Caps Lock to Ctrl!

 

[DNichter]

I think it is not as big as they care to do a good product design.
The sad thing is that Apple could be selling twice as many units, if they just decide to make an MBP.
Many users are deciding not to upgrade just due to the many issues there are with the current MBPs.

1- with a keyboard you can actually type and works. Does not get much more basic than that. It is like buying a Ferrari and saying that only drives every other day.
2- That RAM and SSD are user upgradable.
3- They remove the touchbar (which should bring down the price by $400).
4- Fix the overheating.

While I don’t fully agree with your reasons, I think Apple has just prioritized it’s largest base of customers instead of Mac users. That doesn’t make it okay and I definitely don’t understand why they can’t do both properly, but that’s how I see it. They need to build laptops and desktops specifically for the Pro market, hitting on your points and then some. Consumers should be pointed to iOS. Unfortunately, iOS is where the money is so it clouds their judgment.

 

[Zdigital2015]

If they make a quad-core 32GB RAM 1TB user replaceable/upgradeable NVME 13" MacBook Pro with a matte screen, scissor-switch based keyboard, physical FN keys, NO T2 (in)security chip, a MagSafe power connector and a USB3.1 type A connector I might be tempted.

You are in absolutely ZERO jeopardy of being tempted, but I think you knew that already when you wrote your post.

 

[nt5672]

Install Intel Power Gadget (https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-power-gadget), it will inform you of the current clock speed of the CPU cores. Using it while the cores are maxed out shows the CPU running at full speed.

Just ran this with the some known workloads and I don't think it shows what you think it does, since I could not find any real documentation. But if it makes you feel good, which seem like the purpose, then good for you.
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I meannnn to me that's just crazy if you would rather keep a 2018 machine over a 2019 for a 20 minute drive. We don't know specifics on how the power will be managed so you're just guessing.

Yep your right, I was just guessing. But guessing based on Apple's recent history of ignoring almost all features that don't add the devices glitter.

 

[Abazigal]

While I don’t fully agree with your reasons, I think Apple has just prioritized it’s largest base of customers instead of Mac users. That doesn’t make it okay and I definitely don’t understand why they can’t do both properly, but that’s how I see it. They need to build laptops and desktops specifically for the Pro market, hitting on your points and then some. Consumers should be pointed to iOS. Unfortunately, iOS is where the money is so it clouds their judgment.

I think the pro market has simply gotten too small for Apple to serve specifically and still find it worthwhile.

Their recent MacBooks strike me as Apple trying to find some sort of middle ground, where they want their products to appeal to both the mass consumer and the pro user (which makes up about 30% of their Mac user base).

At the expense of appealing more to the former than the latter.