Apple Defends Against Microsoft in 'App Store' Trademark Dispute

[twilson]

If Apple had the majority of sales with the OS they would just sit back and relax like they always do.

You mean like they did with the iPod...oh hang on a minute. With the iPod Apple were in the lead and kept kicking ass year on year. Doesn't really support your position does it now?

 

[nonameowns]

Apple will wins this one... they have the most recognition and M$ and other companies missed the train to pick a good name.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

So, could you buy them in something ACTUALLY called an "App Store", if not...it's a moot point, and bears no relevance to this conversation as the word "App" is not being contested.

Read the thread again. The word Apps is being contested. Someone stated Apple calls there "programs" "applications". FYI Microsoft may have "Program Files" but in list view the description has always been "Applications".

 

[bananasquiddly]

So, could you buy them in something ACTUALLY called an "App Store", if not...it's a moot point, and bears no relevance to this conversation as the word "App" is not being contested.

It bears all the relevance in the world. If we concede that "app" is a generic term for "application software" (and, since there are many, many examples of it being used before the iPhone was announced, it would be silly to deny that) then we are forced to conclude that "app store" is a generic term for a place to buy apps.

You can describe the Android Marketplace, the webOS App Catalog, the Blackberry App World, etc. as "app stores." You can't describe Mac OS X, the various flavors of Linux, etc. as "Windows."

 

[Ubuntu]

You mean like they did with the iPod...oh hang on a minute. With the iPod Apple were in the lead and kept kicking ass year on year. Doesn't really support your position does it now?

They were? How come they always ended up adding photos/videos functionality after others while still costing more? And of course they never even added built-in radio. So yeah, it does support my position, ta.

 

[theelysium]

WOW. Ok - just rewrite history to make yourself feel better.

Palm being bought and the company's name being put to rest in 2011 has nothing to do with the discussion. Way to straw man the discussion.

And millions of people used the phrase "apps" long before Apple had the app store. Fact. For DECADES before the iPhone. Also fact.

Not true people say software or programs more then they say Apps. wake up.

 

[Ubuntu]

The original Windows may not have been sold as a GUI, but in reality that is all it was

In reality it was an operating system. Think about what an operating system does (the core basics if you will) and Windows did that.

 

[pmjoe]

Using the term "app store" for selling mobile apps dates back nearly a decade. Maybe I'll go trademark "grocery store".

 

[JGowan]

The way I see it, Apple truly put the word "app" into the world's lexicon with their App Store and their "there's an app for that" tagline. It was only when Apple started using it that all these other competitors started using it on a regular basis.

I feel they have a legitimate case, but the law is iffy and unpredictable.

 

[theelysium]

First of all, let's dismiss this false notion that Apple somehow "invented" the word "app." Here's a 2005 post in MacWorld referring to individual programs in the iWork suite as "apps." Wiktionary has a whole list of uses of the word "app" to mean "application" prior to Apple's introduction of the App Store. The word "app" meant "application" way before the iPhone was even cooking inside Apple HQ.

So, in light of this, it doesn't matter how other platforms refer to their software - they're still apps, because that's what the word means.

Now let's tackle the issue of Microsoft's alleged "hypocrisy" here. Sure, pretty much every desktop operating system has windows - but windows are one small element of a pretty huge picture. You wouldn't describe Windows (or Mac OS X, or any Linux distribution, etc.) as a "window" or "windows," would you? Of course not. You'd refer to it as an operating system.

On the other hand, how would you describe the App Store? It's an "app store" - its name describes exactly what it is. An "app" is an application, and a "store" is a place where you sell things. It's as if someone named their car dealership "Car Dealership" and then tried to trademark the term - there's no creative license being applied, they are just using an generic description as an actual name.

As far as hypocrisy goes, if Microsoft were selling actual windows you could make the argument that "Windows" is a generic term in that context and shouldn't be allowed as a trademark. But they're not - there's a layer of abstraction there that isn't present in Apple's attempt to trademark the term "App Store."

So in light of all that, in the contexts in which the names are used, which is more generic: "Windows" or "App Store?" The answer is clearly and unequivocably "App Store."

I'm not wasting my time reading your gibberish. Apple didn't invent the term App they coined it.... duh. Try to keep up with the rest of us here in this forum.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

You mean like they did with the iPod...oh hang on a minute. With the iPod Apple were in the lead and kept kicking ass year on year. Doesn't really support your position does it now?

Apple hasn't really done anything drastic with any of its products.

Why do you think every article on MR is about the iPhone and iPad. People are waiting for Apple to do something different give us some big changes!

Apple sits on technology a lot longer than anyone. They just make it pretty and magical!

 

[gdbleb]

All these companies try to innovate. Pretty sure people like Jony Ive aren't filing patents, they're trying to design products. Apple has just been more successful lately so now everyone expects them to have great innovations all the time when companies like Microsoft, Nokia, RIM, etc. haven't had anything big in a while.

Actually, Ive has over 300 patents. Check him out in Wikipedia.
Remember patents are for doing stuff which he does.
Trademarks are just names.
This fight is over the name I think.

 

[twilson]

"Home" and "Depot" are two generic terms, insofar as any word in the English language is a generic term. "Home Depot" isn't a description of the store's function, though - if asked to describe the "Home Depot," you'd likely refer to it as a "hardware store."

A term is "generic" when it can be applied to an entire category of products. Could you call Lowe's, Ace Hardware, etc., "home depots?" Of course not - that would sound silly. But you could describe the Android Marketplace, the webOS App Catalog, etc., as "app stores." That's where the difference is.

Apple's attempt to trademark "App Store" is the equivalent of someone opening up a hardware store called "Hardware Store," and then attempting to trademark the term.

If the term is so generic, and descriptive. Why do all these other app selling places seem to be going out of their way to avoid the term "App Store". I'm sure it has a lot to do with brand confusion, this fact alone points to it having trademark potential surely?

 

[StuddedLeather]

But that's not the point. The app store is an app store, right? Windows is an OS, not a collection of physical windows. As the user you quoted said, it'd have to be an OS called "Operating System". Windows isn't a GUI, nor is Mac OSX. They contain/implement GUIs but they're not sold as GUIs.

Just a couple of questions. . .

1) How many stores out there, that sells Applications, on a mobile platform are called App Store specifically (past or present)?

2) Prior to Apple and the App Store, Which companies used that term to sell their Applications with the same name?

My point (and I guess a few others) is What's the big deal with TradeMarking "App Store"?
Apple isn't trying to trademark "Application", "Store" etc.
The Trademark is for Apple, to secure the name, so no other company can sell their apps by using "AppStore"; WHICH is totally fine because prior to the iPhone 3G NO ONE did. What would Microsoft benefit from this win? I just don't get it.

It's like Microsoft mentality is "Well if we can't use that phrase we'll just cock block, because we can't think of any thing better or different"

Why does Microsoft feel the need to use "App Store" in any sense that they just can't move on? Please someone help me understand. . . .

EDIT: And I for one KNOW Apple didn't invent the word "App" or "Application". That's not even what they're trying to Trademark.

 

[fabianjj]

Wow - could you be more wrong? No one said Apps until Apple and the iPhone. You must be young. Very young. Many people for years have used the term Apps. The first PALM had "apps". And the term predates the palm.

But I don't expect someone who is so vehemently against Microsoft to post anything else based on the rest of your post.

I don't think Microsoft (or Nokia, or anyone else) would object if Apple wanted to trademark "Apple App Store" or iTunes App Store

Yep, My old Texas instrument 89 has à button dedicated to apps.

And I'm also a bit sursprised that it's Microsoft complaining about this, google I might understand because theyre having problems getting people to spend alot of money in their store. Microsoft, however, has consistently been using the name 'marketplace' for all of their online stores for over half a decade and it seems weird that they would be interested in using 'App Store'.

 

[Vulpinemac]

"App Store" is not a lame trade mark. No one said "Apps" until Apple started it on the iPhone. They own it. The lamest trademark is "Windows", cuz every OS in the world uses windows. They should have called it "infestation", because that's what your up against when you use their crappy OS.

You need to look back a little farther, as Apple has been using the term "application" since the release of OS X, with the extension of " .app ". That means Apple has been using the term for ten years.

 

[bassfingers]

"App" is Apple's

I can see the controversy because "App Store" is a store for apps. However, whether or not Apple the created the term, Apple definitely popularized the term "app". To the point where my grandparents and techno-deficient parents know what apps are.

Also, android (and others) probably calls their programs "apps" because the term is so well understood -thanks to Apple.

The term may have existed beforehand, but Apple blew it up.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

The way I see it, Apple truly put the word "app" into the world's lexicon with their App Store and their "there's an app for that" tagline. It was only when Apple started using it that all these other competitors started using it on a regular basis.

I feel they have a legitimate case, but the law is iffy and unpredictable.

Maybe for John Doe on the street but anyone who has been in IT or the tech world will call BS and thats what Microsoft is doing. In house "App" developers have been around since before computers where even on 1/4th of the everyday persons desk.

 

[JerzeyLegend]

Interesting. I see they have "Xbox Ring of Light" do they have "Xbox Ring of Death" too?

Windows Media - rather a generic term too, considering what it's for. But hey, let's not get too hung up on them.

What is your point?

Xbox Ring of Light is the logo, which could be found on pre-2010 Xbox 360 media.

Xbox Ring of Death is a term brought up by the gaming community, it is not a term Microsoft uses officially.

Windows Media being a format that plays only (supposed to) in Windows Media player, such as (but not limited too) the sample videos found in new installations of Windows.

This lawsuit is petty. In a market where Apple is gaining momentum, Microsoft is using dirty tactics to hinder progress. From a businessman prospective its almost neccessary to keep ahead in this rollercoaster economy, as a consumer, it takes away from Microsoft's credibility.

App Store is a term that has been in use for sometime. Apple however has made the term mainstream and popular. Does it give them exclusive right to trademark a term that has been thrown around in the past? no. Should it disallow them from trademarking the term, no as well. We will leave that decision up to the proper authorities.

What Microsoft has done in the past is irrelevant to this article.

Perhaps simply tweaking the name will help. It is not just Windows, it is Microsoft Windows XP, Vista, or 7. So name it Apple App Store. This allows it to be used on all platforms. I think the battle may be arising from Apple just trying to simply trademark "App Store". This will be anti-competitive and not allow any others to use the term in any other matter. "Apple App Store" says, we... Apple have an app store, accessible on all of our platforms. Microsoft puts thier name in front of everything. I'm sure battles would arise if Microsoft Office was just called Office. The official term is "Microsoft Office" thus causing no legal constrictions on Oracle from making "Open Office", or any others whom would decide to.

 

[twilson]

Using the term "app store" for selling mobile apps dates back nearly a decade.

Care to back that up with some actual FACTS rather than just your statement, because having used mobile devices (every Palm from the Personal up to Tungsten T2 and Windows Mobile since the Casiopia) covering the past 11 years, I can't ever recall the term "App Store" being used before Apple used it for the iPhone.

 

[Ubuntu]

Just a couple of questions. . .

1) How many stores out there, that sells Applications, on a mobile platform are called App Store specifically (past or present)?

2) Prior to Apple and the App Store, Which companies used that term to sell their Applications with the same name?

My point (and I guess a few others) is What's the big deal with TradeMarking "App Store"?
Apple isn't trying to trademark "Application", "Store" etc.
The Trademark is for Apple, to secure the name, so no other company can sell their apps by using "AppStore"; WHICH is totally fine because prior to the iPhone 3G NO ONE did. What would Microsoft benefit from this win? I just don't get it.

It's like Microsoft mentality is "Well if we can't use that phrase we'll just cock block, because we can't think of any thing better or different"

Why does Microsoft feel the need to use "App Store" in any sense that they just can't move on? Please someone help me understand. . . .

EDIT: And I for one KNOW Apple didn't invent the word "App" or "Application". That's not even what they're trying to Trademark.

I don't really care if they try to trademark it, I was just responding to how people thought an OS called Windows is the same thing so Microsoft's argument is pointless. I see where Microsoft is coming from but the Windows example isn't the same thing.

I don't really see the big deal because the App Store provides app for iOS devices only, so if you have an iOS device you're going to use the app store, right? I'd respond to the rest of your post but it'd be a waste as I don't actually have an issue with the name.

 

[Krevnik]

Apple's attempt to trademark "App Store" is the equivalent of someone opening up a hardware store called "Hardware Store," and then attempting to trademark the term.

Not entirely accurate, here... and that is where the dispute lies I think.

Take Kleenex and Band-Aid for example. They very nearly lost their trademarks through brand dilution and failing to protect them because the terms became generic in the populace. I didn't ask for a bandage anymore, I asked for a band-aid. I don't ask for a nose tissue, I ask for a kleenex.

Now, you can claim Apple went into this with a term that is utterly impossible to protect. But I think what we have here is more a Kleenex/Band-Aid issue than the hardware store called "Hardware Store". The general public didn't really call their local software store the "app store". You didn't hear people
saying "Lemme run down to the local app store to pick up OS X 10.5". You didn't even hear this term in reference to the Windows Marketplace on Vista/Win7. This term came into use with the launch of the App Store on the iPhone. That's when you started hearing "Let me download this off the app store."

It can certainly be argued that the trademark dissolves in water and is already diluted, and therefore generic. But I don't think the term was generic enough a the time it was filed for to warrant a rejection then. Of course, the complaint filed by Microsoft doesn't need to care about then. It's about wether or not the term is generic now.

 

[StuddedLeather]

First of all, let's dismiss this false notion that Apple somehow "invented" the word "app." Here's a 2005 post in MacWorld referring to individual programs in the iWork suite as "apps." Wiktionary has a whole list of uses of the word "app" to mean "application" prior to Apple's introduction of the App Store. The word "app" meant "application" way before the iPhone was even cooking inside Apple HQ.

So, in light of this, it doesn't matter how other platforms refer to their software - they're still apps, because that's what the word means.

Now let's tackle the issue of Microsoft's alleged "hypocrisy" here. Sure, pretty much every desktop operating system has windows - but windows are one small element of a pretty huge picture. You wouldn't describe Windows (or Mac OS X, or any Linux distribution, etc.) as a "window" or "windows," would you? Of course not. You'd refer to it as an operating system.

On the other hand, how would you describe the App Store? It's an "app store" - its name describes exactly what it is. An "app" is an application, and a "store" is a place where you sell things. It's as if someone named their car dealership "Car Dealership" and then tried to trademark the term - there's no creative license being applied, they are just using an generic description as an actual name.

As far as hypocrisy goes, if Microsoft were selling actual windows you could make the argument that "Windows" is a generic term in that context and shouldn't be allowed as a trademark. But they're not - there's a layer of abstraction there that isn't present in Apple's attempt to trademark the term "App Store."

So in light of all that, in the contexts in which the names are used, which is more generic: "Windows" or "App Store?" The answer is clearly and unequivocably "App Store."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

 

[Krevnik]

EDIT: Nuked double post fail.

 

[kwfl]

How so, Google has a "Marketplace" does it not?

Let's not forget that until Apple came along with their app store the term "app store" was unheard of. Apple coined the term, so it should be pretty much theirs to use.

As for Microsoft objecting...this comes from the people with trademarks on:

WINDOWS
OFFICE
WORD

Give me a friggin' break!!! They're having a bloody laugh!

i think, each of those products has the word "microsoft" in front of them. In my opinion, if apple were to say "apple" app store, nobody would disagree. However, when they want to just say the app store, then there is a problem.

And for patents, i think you cant file for a patent for something you already used, showed the public what it is. Apple has been using the app store phrase since 2008, they cannot just file for patent now.