Apple Defends App Store Changes in the Netherlands as Fines Reach €30 Million

[ineedanaccont]

As a developer, I don't think it's unreasonable to request different binaries if they behave differently.

But what I'm surprised that this article doesn't mention that apparently Apple still wants developers that charge outside of the App Store to pay 27%... wasn't the case?? If so it's still really an overreach.

Ya because they provide the platform? The fact that you can say they don’t deserve a dime for creating the world that you make your livelihood from is crazy.

If it wasn’t for them you’d still be creating apps for those hideous Nokia phones or Blackberry phones.

Where do you think road/sewage/street lights come from? Do they just materialize out of thin air? No people pay taxes and they are built, people pay taxes and the roads/sewage/street lights are maintained when they get old.

I understand why Apple won’t give in… they give you an inch you come back and ask for a mile.

Can you imagine if the price of your app your work was dictated by the customers? They are free to pay you what you ask or they are free to pay you less or more…

Would you be ok with that?

I say vote with your wallet… you don’t like the price take your money or in this case your dev skills and build an app on a different platform. Whatever happened to windows mobile? Oh right it collapses because devs wouldn’t build apps for it. Remember Palm OS what happened there oh right again devs wouldn’t build apps for it.

So really who killed off the competition? People complain there are only 2 platform… no at one point there was 4
Apple, Android, Palm OS, Windows Phone but what happened to the other two 2

Devs put their money on the first 2 and the other 2 died off. See you played a part in the world that exists today.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

The App Store is just a feature of iOS devices. As you point out, Apple is in competition with other device manufactures.

I haven't said that Apple devices aren't in direct competition with the ones of other brands. They are.

Just refuted the idea that App Stores the likes of Apple are in competition. I live in Portugal, you live in the US ... our businesses are not in competition unless I open business in your region or you open business in mine. The same for whatever in the region of iOS or Android or whatever device platform.

The reasoning that if the container A is in competition with container B therefore so are its individual components is a logical fallacy.

This farcical reasoning has been played over and over and over by Apple proponents. No matter how many times a lie is repeated it does not become truthful. Just reality might become less authentic if perpetuated and we all know where that leads to ...

Concluding, Devices/OSs are in competition between each other, not necessarily their components individually. Case in case the App Stores.

Corollary: Having the option of not using a container does not percolate as the option of not using one of its components.

For instance, it would be ridiculous for you to say to your customers in the US ... "You have the option of not buying from me ... just move to Portugal". The reason has to do with the fact that other forces are at play that make it not an authentic option. Its creating a false dilemma!

Simple.

 

[sw1tcher]

Android and all of its app stores are a decent competitor to Apple. I wouldn't call that zero.

I didn't know I could get an app for my iPhone from one of the many Android app stores.

Apple has a minority market share. There's plenty of competition for Apple.

Apple has a minority market share for iOS compared to Android OS. Apple does not have a minority market share when it comes to iOS app stores though, and that's the way we should be looking at it. But in order for you to do that, you have to Think Different™

"Here's to the crazy ones... the ones who see things differently"

 

[robco74]

If you don't want to purchase apps from the App Store, then don't buy an iPhone. There are plenty of other devices to choose from.

 

[BaldiMac]

I haven't said that Apple devices aren't in direct competition with the ones of other brands.

I didn't say you did. I was agreeing with you.

Apple has a minority market share for iOS compared to Android OS. Apple does not have a minority market share when it comes to iOS app stores though, and that's the way we should be looking at it. But in order for you to do that, you have to Think Different™

"Here's to the crazy ones... the ones who see things differently"

Apple doesn't sell "iOS app stores". That's just a made up market. Nor does it compete in a mobile OS market. It primarily competes in iOS device markets.

The ACM's argument is that Apple is using its alleged dominance in the smartphone market to limit competition in the market for Dutch dating app payment providers.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The fact that you can say they don’t deserve a dime for creating the world that you make your livelihood from is crazy.

@sherwinzadeh did not say what you are claiming they did.

 

[darngooddesign]

And it wasn't just an Ad. Steve was fully aware of the Orwellian future. From his philosophy all they way down to how he see things. He is very much a libertarian.

Tim Cook, not so much. You can tell by his talks and his philosophy.

You can look at all of the alternative iPhone app stores which proliferated under SJ to see how true that is.

 

[CarlJ]

I don't get the reference. I'm old and or obtuse.

I’m making irrational and unreasonable requests, dammit.

 

[Abazigal]

Frustrating to see Apple continue to destroy their reputation among developers for short-term profits. Even from a purely business perspective, this can't be a good strategy.

Follow a few iOS devs on Twitter if you want to watch their enthusiasm decreasing in real time...

Maybe you can point out who those devs are, because my twitter timeline has been showing nothing but news on Ukraine so far.

 

[mikethemartian]

In 1984 there was little competition to ibm. In 2022 there is plenty of competition to Apple. Apple in 2022 according to global market share is a minority.

There was plenty of competition to IBM in 1984.

 

[sherwinzadeh]

Ya because they provide the platform? The fact that you can say they don’t deserve a dime for creating the world that you make your livelihood from is crazy.

If it wasn’t for them you’d still be creating apps for those hideous Nokia phones or Blackberry phones.

Where do you think road/sewage/street lights come from? Do they just materialize out of thin air? No people pay taxes and they are built, people pay taxes and the roads/sewage/street lights are maintained when they get old.

I understand why Apple won’t give in… they give you an inch you come back and ask for a mile.

Can you imagine if the price of your app your work was dictated by the customers? They are free to pay you what you ask or they are free to pay you less or more…

Would you be ok with that?

I say vote with your wallet… you don’t like the price take your money or in this case your dev skills and build an app on a different platform. Whatever happened to windows mobile? Oh right it collapses because devs wouldn’t build apps for it. Remember Palm OS what happened there oh right again devs wouldn’t build apps for it.

So really who killed off the competition? People complain there are only 2 platform… no at one point there was 4
Apple, Android, Palm OS, Windows Phone but what happened to the other two 2

Devs put their money on the first 2 and the other 2 died off. See you played a part in the world that exists today.

Most of the apps I've written sell on the App Store or use In App Purchase and I have no problem with it and actually love it. But it doesn't make sense for every business model. Take a music app, for example, or any other app that has to give royalty for content anyways and then pay Apple as well. Then given the fact that Apple can come in at any moment and create a competing app without those limitations, then it is unfair competition.

Historically, 3rd party app eco systems have helped platforms grow. Lotus 1-2-3 made the IBM PC. Pagemaker make the Mac a viable alternative and I would argue that 3rd party apps and games are why we use the iPhone we love so much -- unless you just spend all your time in the Calculator app.

And as far as vote with your wallet -- then let's make it fair: let the App Store's payment model stand on it's own feet as a super convenient way to make quick purchases but also don't lock out other ways that may make sense. I would still prefer to use IAP unless I really couldn't.

And counter-point to your argument I'd like to make is the fact that so many apps run for free or ad-based — Apple doesn't make a dime on these apps yet the App Store makes them succeed. Well not ever app wants to be ad-based. There just needs to be more flexibility and right now there is very, very little.

 

[I7guy]

There was plenty of competition to IBM in 1984.

True, if you didn’t want to use ibm software there weee certainly other vendors like DEC. But if you wanted to use ibm software and mvs not a lot of choice. Also not a lot of competion to pc-dos; except for apple.

 

[BaldiMac]

Most of the apps I've written sell on the App Store or use In App Purchase and I have no problem with it and actually love it. But it doesn't make sense for every business model. Take a music app, for example, or any other app that has to give royalty for content anyways and then pay Apple as well. Then given the fact that Apple can come in at any moment and create a competing app without those limitations, then it is unfair competition.

Unfair? If I create a device to sell and play music, than it is certainly fair to charge other companies who want to sell and play music on that device. Making an investment to decrease long terms costs isn't "unfair competition".

 

[BaldiMac]

True, if you didn’t want to use ibm software there weee certainly other vendors like DEC. But if you wanted to use ibm software and mvs not a lot of choice. Also not a lot of competion to pc-dos; except for apple.

IIRC, the Commodore 64 was the market share leader around in the early 80s.

 

[4jasontv]

Most of the apps I've written sell on the App Store or use In App Purchase and I have no problem with it and actually love it. But it doesn't make sense for every business model. Take a music app, for example, or any other app that has to give royalty for content anyways and then pay Apple as well. Then given the fact that Apple can come in at any moment and create a competing app without those limitations, then it is unfair competition.

Apple should do that then. Because last I checked Apple not only saved the music industry with iTunes, they are consistently one the highest paying in streaming.

Historically, 3rd party app eco systems have helped platforms grow. Lotus 1-2-3 made the IBM PC. Pagemaker make the Mac a viable alternative and I would argue that 3rd party apps and games are why we use the iPhone we love so much -- unless you just spend all your time in the Calculator app.

Let's not kid ourselves. Lotus did pretty well for itself considering it struggled hard with OS conversions. But it survived until 2013, so it's not like it has been gone long. I never used PageMaker, but didn't it get a fairly lengthy conversion to InDesign? I assumed it still existed in spirit.

And as far as vote with your wallet -- then let's make it fair: let the App Store's payment model stand on it's own feet as a super convenient way to make quick purchases but also don't lock out other ways that may make sense. I would still prefer to use IAP unless I really couldn't.

When people say 'vote with your wallet' they mean at hardware purchase, not software. You can't vote with your wallet and buy Mac software after purchasing a Dell. You already voted. What you really are saying is, let people vote on laws, not politicians.

And counter-point to your argument I'd like to make is the fact that so many apps run for free or ad-based — Apple doesn't make a dime on these apps yet the App Store makes them succeed. Well not ever app wants to be ad-based. There just needs to be more flexibility and right now there is very, very little.

I always found it strange that Apple can't collect 30% of advertising revenue.

 

[sherwinzadeh]

@4jasontv look your arguments make sense if the iPhone was some random device, or if it was like the iPod use to be. But our phones are more and more becoming our primary computing device... do you really think that two companies should control the future of how software gets distributed and monetized? History hasn't really been good to companies that do that. Microsoft being a case in point -- Linux destroyed them on the server side and Apple destroyed them in mobile. And anyways looks like the trend across the world is for government to interject. It's a matter of time.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

When people say 'vote with your wallet' they mean at hardware purchase, not software. You can't vote with your wallet and buy Mac software after purchasing a Dell. You already voted. What you really are saying is, let people vote on laws, not politicians.

There is no vote through wallet. There are no elections at play to defend consumers or digital businesses interests, no formal group decisions here. People are being brain washed by this abusive use of a concept that is considered a democratic instrument, as a form of proof of the popular acceptance of a specific company policy.

People just buy what they want to buy according to the information provided ... most of the time through marketing messaging. Case in case, the devices that were bought are users property, even though is governed by IP laws , whose only restriction is in making copies or replicas of it or any of its components for commercial purposes. Just that. That is what IP laws safe guard, nothing else. Apple IP and rights is very well protected as well as others are, such is not in question.

 

[BaldiMac]

But our phones are more and more becoming our primary computing device... do you really think that two companies should control the future of how software gets distributed and monetized?

No... but seems to me that Google is the one with horizontal agreements across a large majority of the market. Apple is in second place in most smartphone markets. Big difference.

History hasn't really been good to companies that do that. Microsoft being a case in point -- Linux destroyed them on the server side and Apple destroyed them in mobile. And anyways looks like the trend across the world is for government to interject. It's a matter of time.

And now it has the second biggest market cap in the world. Seems like history's been pretty good.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Why do dating services even need apps, they could run their services through websites and keep 100% of the profit from any fees they charge. 100% is more than 70%.

They know that engagement is higher on the mobile app. And yet they don’t think the creator of that rich environment deserves any compensation. There is your greed.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

If I create a device to sell and play music

True. But such argument becomes far less convincing when you create a device to play music and only later you bake in mechanisms to start charging for the sale of music because lots of people bought you the devices that can play those assets.

Look, Apple did not build the iPhone to sell dating arrangements to game streams, video seminars to remote classes ... people did not buy an App Store to do any of these things, they bought an Smartphone that can run all sorts of apps, something that SJ so well described ... No matter how you wing this, its simply not an authentic description of reality.

Why do people pro Apple stance need to go so deep in creating false dilemas, duplicity, and many illogical patterns of thought, aka fallacies to defend it? If the practice is truthful and authentic no need for that.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Again, the ACM has shown that they don’t understand the technology and aren’t interested in doing so. They probably think “binary” refers to a bisexual canary.

 

[deevey]

Why do dating services even need apps, they could run their services through websites and keep 100% of the profit from any fees they charge. 100% is more than 70%.

One touch Impulse Transactions.

 

[PC_tech]

They just want it for free.

You really like repeating this as if it’s fact don’t you?

 

[anthogag]

If Apple has to "defend" it it probably isn't good enough. ?

 

[robco74]

You really like repeating this as if it’s fact don’t you?

How else would you explain developers, who have made millions, and in some cases billions, off of the platform Apple created, are now whining that they aren't making enough?