Apple Delays Rollout of Controversial Child Safety Features to Make Improvements

[RightsOfBill]

I had planned on downsizing my 15” MBP for a 14” on the upcoming cycle but Apple’s actions have scrapped that. I’ve purchased and received a System76 (Pop_OS! Linux) laptop and am enjoying it with minimal learning curve. Not quite as polished as MacOS but the trade offs look acceptable.

I also am currently test driving GrapheneOS on a Pixel 5. Thus far very impressed with the experience. The obvious hurdle is iMessage with the vast majority of family and friends being in the Apple ecosystem. But once I overcome that I feel the transition should be seamless.

Especially as I reevaluate what I want out of a phone, computer and technology in general. I’m unplugging to a large extent (sold my Apple Watch years ago because I grew tired of constant notifications and distractions). I’ve deleted essentially every app from my iPhone to limit its functionality to telephony, text messaging/iMessage and email (though I’m questioning the need for that on a phone). I keep Signal and ProtonMail as well as a podcast app and third party music player for usage in the car. I don’t need news apps, social media or any of the other numerous types of apps that serve as nothing more than time sucks and turning my usage habits into their monetization.

Likewise, Linux brings back the purity and privacy of computing to the extent possible. Apple has gone so far away from being a hardware builder/software bundled and have evolved into a subscription model based upon iEverything integration. I have no interest in that. I’m beginning to extract myself from Apple’s software ecosystem as well.

Apple has forced me to re-evaluate what I want out of technology. I have decided that the convenience is no longer worth the trade off in either privacy or monetizing my online presence. I will pay to use the products that I choose. I will no longer allow myself to be the product. I thank Tim Cook for that.

It’s liberating.

 

[dk001]

Sending messages child safety part doesn’t have to be delayed as nobody has an issue with that part it’s mainly the iCloud scanning part it’s not clear what is the right approach and some feel it’s too far and it’s is as iCloud photos is basically storing and backing up one’s photos online instead of their own storage like an external HDD or computer so should just be messaging and is optional so don’t see an issue at all if Apple only keeps that feature in iOS 15

Actually a number of parent do have an issue with this especially for children that are possibly gay, homosexual, or transgender as this could out them to their parents.
Then there is the group who feels that Apple should not be defining nor setting the limits on this.

Is there push back? Yes. CSAM though kind of buried everything else.

 

[I7guy]

Actually a number of parent do have an issue with this especially for children that are possibly gay, homosexual, or transgender as this could out them to their parents.
[…]

Are you suggesting gay or transgender underage persons are more likely to receive suggestive or explicit material?

 

[dk001]

Looks like the EFF will stay on top of this https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/...ugh-apple-must-abandon-its-surveillance-plans

For those that read this, EFF is objecting to all three(?) of Apple’s features, not just the CSAM.

 

[Mercury7]

Are you suggesting gay or transgender underage persons are more likely to receive suggestive or explicit material?

What he is saying is transgender kids take transition photos, under apples scheme they would be outed to their parents…. Not something I would have thought about ether but can see the concern…. Most likely some kids would be outed in this way…. I don’t pretend to understand why kids that have not taken drugs or even hit puberty yet would be doing that but if the trans community have an issue with it then who am I to 2nd guess them

 

[Mercury7]

I had planned on downsizing my 15” MBP for a 14” on the upcoming cycle but Apple’s actions have scrapped that. I’ve purchased and received a System76 (Pop_OS! Linux) laptop and am enjoying it with minimal learning curve. Not quite as polished as MacOS but the trade offs look acceptable.

I also am currently test driving GrapheneOS on a Pixel 5. Thus far very impressed with the experience. The obvious hurdle is iMessage with the vast majority of family and friends being in the Apple ecosystem. But once I overcome that I feel the transition should be seamless.

Especially as I reevaluate what I want out of a phone, computer and technology in general. I’m unplugging to a large extent (sold my Apple Watch years ago because I grew tired of constant notifications and distractions). I’ve deleted essentially every app from my iPhone to limit its functionality to telephony, text messaging/iMessage and email (though I’m questioning the need for that on a phone). I keep Signal and ProtonMail as well as a podcast app and third party music player for usage in the car. I don’t need news apps, social media or any of the other numerous types of apps that serve as nothing more than time sucks and turning my usage habits into their monetization.

Likewise, Linux brings back the purity and privacy of computing to the extent possible. Apple has gone so far away from being a hardware builder/software bundled and have evolved into a subscription model based upon iEverything integration. I have no interest in that. I’m beginning to extract myself from Apple’s software ecosystem as well.

Apple has forced me to re-evaluate what I want out of technology. I have decided that the convenience is no longer worth the trade off in either privacy or monetizing my online presence. I will pay to use the products that I choose. I will no longer allow myself to be the product. I thank Tim Cook for that.

It’s liberating.

No doubt there are many who never thought about switching before that have gone down the research road over the last month…. And now will continue….. for me if this ends up being the reversal then Apple will still have me…. Just watching still, the pause is a good sign but the proof Is yet to come…. I still won’t be downloading ios15 or resubscribing to iCloud til I know this is dead

 

[I7guy]

What he is saying is transgender kids take transition photos, under apples scheme they would be outed to their parents…. Not something I would have thought about ether but can see the concern…. Most likely some kids would be outed in this way…. I don’t pretend to understand why kids that have not taken drugs or even hit puberty yet would be doing that but if the trans community have an issue with it then who am I to 2nd guess them

For persons under 18 sounds like a family matter and not one for the trans community to judge at large. Not that I’m for any of this.

 

[hashbreaker2021]

Are there any good threads here on MacRumors for Mac users switching off platform?

@Dionte and others have mentioned making changes. I'm moving off Apple and switching to Linux.

I am not certain if there are good threads for that.

However, if you are looking to move off of Apple, instead of Linux, might I recommend a BSD?

macOS is derived pretty heavily from FreeBSD and to a lesser extent, OpenBSD. The BSD ports system, will seem very familiar if you use macports for example. Similarly, ^t (control t) in a terminal on FreeBSD, will give you realtime process information, just as it does on macOS. In a Linux terminal? Not so much. BSDs, like macOS are derived from real honest to gosh 1970s vintage Unix. Linux is a 1990s re-imagining of a Unix-like operating system, from a guy who didn't understand why the author of Minix, who at the time was one of the preeminent Operating System researchers and professors on Earth, was chastising Torvalds for re-implementing a monolithic kernel design in the 1990s when better examples already existed on the commercial market with microkernels (such as the fantastic Amiga Workbench, and to a lesser extent NeXT) which did not reinvent that flat tire.

BSDs also tend to be more cohesive, Linux is "just a kernel" and distros are a mish-mash of tools and code branches and forks and incompatibilities, what may work on RHEL, won't work on Ubuntu, and in turn neither of those will be of much help with Arch or Manjaro. With a BSD, a kernel and a userland are kept consistent, so you can focus on tracking releases, /usr/src tends to be consistent for base operating source code and /usr/ports tends to be consistent for 3rd party port source code storage not tracked as assiduously as the base source code, but still often contains ports of things you might otherwise need to build from source obtained from elsewhere such as github. If you enjoy working with source code (and I know I do) it is refreshingly pleasant to cd /usr/src and sync to a current source code repository, and then make buildkernel && make buildworld && make installkernel && make installworld on FreeBSD for example. Tools such as portmaster on FreeBSD, also can help a lot with simplifying and automating refreshing ports.

For super user-friendly BSDs, for new users I used to recommend PC-BSD, which later became TrueOS, but that seems that seems to have been discontinued publicly. The three main BSD branches these days are FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD, but there are a variety of specific offshoots of each (technically, OpenBSD branched from NetBSD in the 1990s, and really all of them still trace their provenance back to 1970s era UC Berkeley code).

You should be able to install OpenBSD or FreeBSD on a PineBook Pro without too much hassle, though for a more performant experience, a lot of laptop users in both those camps seem to tend to prefer ThinkPads. If you are building your own workstation, regardless of choosing Linux or a BSD, paying particular attention to chip sets and component choices is important to make sure that they are well supported. Despite the additional effort, I think it is worth it. Albeit, I don't use any singular OS nor hardware platform exclusively, and enjoy keeping up with various OS developments by tracking -CURRENT code branches. I know I am not alone in that, but it is a bit of a departure from consumer oriented computing where others compile OSes and binaries (not to suggest libre/free open source operating systems do not also offer pre-built binaries, but I actually enjoy working with source code and making my own modifications rather than relying on others' build infrastructure). Albeit, I began formal instruction in programming before Macs or Windows existed, and so for me, computers were always predominantly about programming, rather than merely using what others had written.

 

[dk001]

Their job is to listen to cell phone conversations the taliban are having. Not to listen to Americans.

They changed that to terrorist. Then the expanded that to all terrorists including domestic. Then they expanded the definition of terrorist.

 

[Mercury7]

Not sure what’s your point. Apple is required to report CSAM contents stored in their servers if they knew about it. This is US law as far as I know. Apple proposed a way to do what’s required of said law, and shared what they intend to do with their customers.

If you have problem with said law and if you’re a US citizen, take it up with your local rep. My take is that Apple is planning E2EE for iCloud Photo. When that’s done, even Apple cannot provide any photos stored in iCloud Photo to anyone, because Apple just do not have the keys to decrypt the photos.

Btw, if your country’s law hypothetically requires your landlord to randomly search your flat, would you deny it and risks getting into trouble? I think we should all stop such silly hypothetical scenarios.

Lastly Apple only said they will hash photos that will be uploaded into iCloud Photos. If it’s not uploaded, there will be no hashing done. AFAIK there’s no scanning of device contents. It is up to you to believe what they say. I for one believe them. What does Apple have to gain by lying?

it surprises me people are still missing the point, we don’t want the hash database on our devices, it’s just spyware no matter Whether it’s looking for stuff we agree with or not…. It’s just a principle thing, people keep having discussions about other stuff and Apple trust etc, it’s not the issue. Apple will move forward after they figure a way to do the same thing without our devices being in the loop… and that is something we will all support

 

[Mercury7]

For persons under 18 sounds like a family matter and not one for the trans community to judge at large. Not that I’m for any of this.

Well every rights group tries to protect their own…. The whole problem with parental notification about anything is it assumes parents are good people and want the best for their children…. Unfortunately that delusional on its best day

 

[Jayson A]

Well every rights group tries to protect their own…. The whole problem with parental notification about anything is it assumes parents are good people and want the best for their children…. Unfortunately that delusional on its best day

Parental control has been around for a long time and Apple can’t control the actions of the parent. If they want to use this feature, they should be free to do that.

 

[AndrewStra]

Likewise, Linux brings back the purity and privacy of computing to the extent possible. Apple has gone so far away from being a hardware builder/software bundled and have evolved into a subscription model based upon iEverything integration. I have no interest in that. I’m beginning to extract myself from Apple’s software ecosystem as well.

Apple has forced me to re-evaluate what I want out of technology. I have decided that the convenience is no longer worth the trade off in either privacy or monetizing my online presence. I will pay to use the products that I choose. I will no longer allow myself to be the product. I thank Tim Cook for that.

It’s liberating.

Congratulations. I'm on a similar path. I already phased out macOS and replaced it by Linux. It feels realy great to have a lean system that I can control like I want. I've already bought a midrange Android Phone to get used to it. I've yet to do the switch. It has some downsides, when you try to use it without coupling it to a Google account, but it is possible. Also, it is great to have the possiblity to install applications without an app store. I've yet to decide what will replace my iPads or if I'll keep them for now.

 

[CthuluLemon]

Apropos to the current discussions, nonetheless, don't you think? Some people are (were?) willing to just go along with whatever Apple wants to do, despite the fact they don't like the idea, simply because it's too much effort to do otherwise or because Apple's stuff is too cool/handy to do without.

Definitely apropos, just not in how many here are framing it.

 

[RightsOfBill]

No doubt there are many who never thought about switching before that have gone down the research road over the last month…. And now will continue….. for me if this ends up being the reversal then Apple will still have me…. Just watching still, the pause is a good sign but the proof Is yet to come…. I still won’t be downloading ios15 or resubscribing to iCloud til I know this is dead

I get that and respect your position. For me, the immediate issue is Apple’s policy shift and the privacy implications it introduces. However, it’s that immediate concern that led to my own questioning the role and reliance on technology in my personal life.

That answer is no longer Apple.

 

[Mercury7]

Parental control has been around for a long time and Apple can’t control the actions of the parent. If they want to use this feature, they should be free to do that.

I think it might cross the line to be sending naked photo notifications… it’s a can of worms best left unopened in my opinion regardless of the intent, i Suppose in a perfect world parents are perfect and kids don’t sext, but we don’t live in a perfect world, many kids would be out on the street if a parent discovered they were gay or did something they freaked out about. The number of kids you protect may end up being equal to the number you destroy

——
edit … very easy to destroy trust between parents and kids even normally… happens a good bit by the time you get your kids out of high school, installing spyware can be done by parents if they really want to know, Apple should stay out of it, I personally think you should just pass on your values to your children the best you can and trust them…

 

[RightsOfBill]

Congratulations. I'm on a similar path. I already phased out macOS and replaced it by Linux. It feels realy great to have a lean system that I can control like I want. I've already bought a midrange Android Phone to get used to it. I've yet to do the switch. It has some downsides, when you try to use it without coupling it to a Google account, but it is possible. Also, it is great to have the possiblity to install applications without an app store. I've yet to decide what will replace my iPads or if I'll keep them for now.

I didn’t touch on my iPad Pro. That had largely replaced my MBP as a mobile device and I used it extensively with Notability for essentially a digital file cabinet.

I will be selling the iPad. Whether it gets replaced with another eInk device is undetermined. But I may enjoy a bound notepad and pen for a while.

More analog. Less digital.

 

[I7guy]

Well every rights group tries to protect their own…. The whole problem with parental notification about anything is it assumes parents are good people and want the best for their children…. Unfortunately that delusional on its best day

Still, persons under 18 are minors.

 

[hans1972]

Countries like S. Korea already forced Apple to allow third party payments on the app store by law. All China needed to do is make some law about it and Apple will have no choice to concede if they want to continue doing business in China. And Apple will have no recourse as they set up the system in place themselves to be exploited.

That's still true with or without the CSAM Detection System.

Every country in the world can make laws forcing Apple to change their system or abandon the market. It's been this way for ever.

 

[jseymour]

Parental control has been around for a long time and Apple can’t control the actions of the parent. If they want to use this feature, they should be free to do that.

I find myself in rare agreement with @Jayson A . My reasoning goes something like this:

• Minor children are generally regarded by the law as being the responsibility of their parents or guardians.
• Likewise: Many Constitutional protections do not apply to minor children.
• Those opposed to the "nanny state" and big tech substituting for good parenting can hardly make that complaint while, at the same time, urging parents be deprived of tools to help them do just that. See also my first point.
• Lastly: "My house, my rules." If parents of a minor child are paying for the mobile device(s) and service(s), those parents ought to have rights to determine when and how they're used.

Mind you: I was raised in a day and age where parents' word, as regards minor children, was law. Period. End of story.

 

[dk001]

Are you suggesting gay or transgender underage persons are more likely to receive suggestive or explicit material?

No.
What I have seen about this was about outing to family.

Personally I feel Apple should leave this feature off. My kids are all grown and out of the house 👍 but I do deal with foster teens. That is a whole different level of legallity.

 

[hans1972]

All a totalitarian government would have to do is quietly demand that Apple add some additional hashes to the algorithm and report any matches back to the government. No one would detect it because the hash files are hidden from examination. That's how easy it would be.

Except the CSAM Detection system would be poor to catch dissidents.

It can't recognise images in the same category. You can provide hashes of "illegal protests", "doing drugs", "having guns", "wearing MAGA hats".

The algorithm is only good for finding exact copies of an image or close derivatives, not similar images.

 

[Mercury7]

I get that and respect your position. For me, the immediate issue is Apple’s policy shift and the privacy implications it introduces. However, it’s that immediate concern that led to my own questioning the role and reliance on technology in my personal life.

That answer is no longer Apple.

I certainly understand that, I have been mostly happy in the ecosystem before all this happened so it was always my position if they stopped it I would stay….. but the jury is still out, all they said is they would think about it, that’s hardly a victory yet

 

[I7guy]

[…]. I will no longer allow myself to be the product. I thank Tim Cook for that.

It’s liberating.

Linux will never have embedded, hidden code. But store your data on the public cloud or believe your android phone won’t have similar scans is not a reasonable assumption, imo.

 

[jntdroid]

That's still true with or without the CSAM Detection System.

Every country in the world can make laws forcing Apple to change their system or abandon the market. It's been this way for ever.

Are you sure that was me that said that? It shows my name in your quote but I have zero recollection of that comment lol

edit: looks like you grabbed someone else and had it under my name by mistake - when I click the redirect next to my name in your quote above, it goes here: https://forums.macrumors.com/goto/post?id=30232943