You should read the article. The app's functionality was removed from the same OS he had been using.
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Apple Denied Motion to Dismiss Lawsuit Related to Disabling FaceTime on iOS 6 and Earlier
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You should read the article. The app's functionality was removed from the same OS he had been using.
On its face, the suit seems almost silly. Even if they win, just what is the cash value of losing FaceTime after several years of "beneficial use" of the feature, relative to the value of the entire phone (especially after the lawyers get their cut of the settlement)? I think there's a deeper desire here on the part of the plaintiffs... some sort of precedent that might require OS and software developers to support and update their products in perpetuity, without requiring an updated OS. Some people would applaud such a decision, but the industry as a whole would fight it tooth and nail.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. If you buy a product with a feature advertised as working on a device with the sold firmware, you should expect it to work and not be disabled by the manufacturer.
Pbrutto
macrumors 6502a
shareef777
Suspended
iOS7 makes the iPhone 4 unusable. I can see both sides of the argument, but it'll be up the judge/lawyers to determine what Apple's motives were behind the decision to cut FaceTime and wether it's against the EULA.
Mobile_Suit_GUNDAM
macrumors newbie
i have x3 iPod Touch 4 sitting iOS6 , facetime can not login any more 🙁
Swift
macrumors 68000
Yes, Apple should still be doing what brought Windows down, staying compatible with every upgrade from the past even if they have changed processors, or adopted a new codec which benefits 95% of Apple's customers, but forces the remaining customers to update their software. The iPhone 4 came out on June 10, 2010, with FaceTime and iOS 4 (just named iOS!). iOS 7 was released in September, 2013. I remember some complaints that the upgrade made the iPhone 4 slower. I also remember people saying later upgrades made it faster. The resolution of FaceTime improved greatly in the iPhone 4s/iOS6 upgrade, which did work with the iPhone 4. Not sure what the difference was in the iPhone 5/iOS 7 upgrade. This was the first OS that had the new, flatter design. Possibly a greater need for RAM or GPU. The phone still functioned. So I suppose the one real issue would be, did Apple intentionally, maliciously, sabotage all those poor people with a three-year-old phone?
This has to be one of the few completely valid lawsuits against Apple. So many people defending Apple right off the bat simply don't understand that under an iOS6 update, Facetime functionality was REMOVED due to the cost of the relay. It was re-introduced with Apples peer-to-peer fix in iOS7, but having had an iPhone4, upgrading to iOS7 was a HUGE mistake. Made my phone pretty unusable and it didn't get any better with iOS7.1 but of course you can't downgrade at that point.
People need to stop and actually read the article not only here, but on other sites that give the full story to really gauge what's going on, but of course that's asking many people to do something that's hard for most, critical thinking.
People need to stop and actually read the article not only here, but on other sites that give the full story to really gauge what's going on, but of course that's asking many people to do something that's hard for most, critical thinking.
WatchFromAfar
Suspended
No this is why they didn't want to upgrade:
"Updating to iOS 7 could be seen as the simple solution in this situation. But the plaintiffs owned an iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s, and cited internet articles that claim updating to iOS 7 significantly impairs the performance and functionality of those smartphones."
It's right in the article.
timborama
Suspended
1, clearly they have a valid case, otherwise Apple wouldn't have jumped so easily (and the courts clearly see that as well)
2. constant nagging basically forces yo to update, otherwise you ARE losing storage to the auto downloaded update, and screen nagging
3. How does hardware "age"?!? Apple does force obsolescence with each update though
4. disagree. Ever since THAT forced update, my FaceTime constantly has "Reconnecting..." issues. Never had them BEFORE that update. Just have to look back at Apple community pages to see many, many people started seeing the same.
5. If you're sold a device with a "FaceTime" camera, it should continue to work with FaceTime. Apple said it was a certificate "issue" to skirt the issue, which it clearly was not.
Looking forward to see Apple losing this one. Hopefully with double-damages awarded
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goobot
macrumors 604
So where is the evidence that Apple intentionally broke FaceTime for iOS 6?
How are they going to prove that??
Did they get a hold of some internal memo that states: “iOS devs... the company has decided to force users to upgrade to ios7 by breaking FaceTime for iOS 6...”
Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true.
How are they going to prove that??
Did they get a hold of some internal memo that states: “iOS devs... the company has decided to force users to upgrade to ios7 by breaking FaceTime for iOS 6...”
Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true.
That's known as the "I Read It on the Internet Defense." Works every time! 😉
Apple will cite the percentage of iPhone 4 and 4s users who successfully upgraded, they'll bring in reams of anonymized user data. It'll be up to the plaintiffs to successfully challenge the validity of those tests, and to provide their own data that proves the contrary. It's not likely to be a replay of "My Cousin Vinny."
You make some good points, but there is one aspect of the discussion that needs to be addressed - security. Apple should be able to drop support for an operating system that is obsolete. We're on iOS 10 now (very soon to be 11). This is now 4-5 generations behind. It costs money to continually update old software to deliver security enhancements. At some point, you have to start dropping support for the old versions to redeploy those resources elsewhere.
iPhone 4 is eligible for an update. That should be the prevailing point here. These people are not left with an absolute device. They are left with a device that runs software that is no longer being supported. That software can be updated. There is a difference.
Apple may not be honest about what's happening. They should be, I agree there. Just my two cents.
"hardware ages" is because its not exactly an iPhone 7 either.... its more than a year old.... It's showing it's "age"
Stromos
macrumors 65816
Dusts off PS3. So I guess if this is okay for a lawsuit Sony will be sending me my check for removing Linux support from my PS3. I spent a good month tweaking that and making it work properly. Then was given the ultimatum not to update and lose all access to PSN or update and lose my linux partition.
Law suit got thrown out saying Sony can remove features at will. Well if Apple can't Sony can't either.
Law suit got thrown out saying Sony can remove features at will. Well if Apple can't Sony can't either.
If you do upgrade (to iOS 11) you can expect lots of things to stop continuing to work. Like 32-bit apps that people still depend on.
Point is, Apple has done lots of things in upgrades that annoy people (like changing the entire UI in iOS 7). I still do not get why companies don't let you skin the OS - I think XP users would have been far less resistive if there was an XP skin for Windows 7 or even Windows 10. And I think some of the iOS 6 users would have gladly updated as long as the UI looked the same.
Maybe that's why some people choose not to upgrade. The user experience of that upgrade sours people.
maverick28
macrumors 6502a
- Good move on the part of the plaintiffs and the judge as well. Applauding.
- I'd suggest to tail to that lawsuits considering expiration of Apple-Google deal relating to Google providing mapping service to such Apple's software as iPhoto/Aperture (expired on June 30/31, 2015), QuickTime 10.1, iMovie 9.0.9 lost ability to share to YouTube, Facebook (exp. date Dec. 31, 2016), Keynote to YouTube (expiration date N/A). I see clear financial strategy prioritizing over customer interests. Don't make a fuss with Apple or another big Corporation.
- Upgrade to the next iOS or any other operating system should be voluntary not forced. If a customer finds that upgrading slowdowns his/her device he/she is in full right to demand that all services available for that version of software on the day of the purchase of the said device may not be terminated or cancelled in any other way and that in the event of such occurrence Apple used all endeavors to provide and maintain the services uninterrupted.
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AZ63
macrumors 6502
I like Apple products and their software but they are a company run by people who are fallible just like every other human. That is why I don't blindly run updates immediately but I wait a couple of weeks and do a little reading about the update. I also do a sync of my phone to my computer before I run the update. That way I can restore to a previous state if need be. So, in essence, there is a way to downgrade.
mikecorp
Suspended
It is not your job to wait and update especially if you receive push notification. Testing should be done prior any release on all devices.
My conclusion, your idea is absolutely stupid and with destroy financial incentive for developers to create companies thus killing startup culture in the United States. The effect of this would kill small businesses and allow and reward large companies for stealing code from small companies.
If you're solution to fix copyright and patent legislation can be summed up in a sentence, the idea is stupid and useless and should be outright dismissed. Further, that kind of stupidity should ban you from voting because people who say stupid crap like that vote idiots into public office.
jmgregory1
macrumors 68040
Well reading the article and getting "The app's functionality was removed from the OS" out of it suggests you are either promoting the lawsuit or completely missing the fact that Apple maintained the feature in subsequent FREE updates to iOS. This is a frivolous lawsuit, at best.
Apple SHOULD be sued for allowing 4 and 4S users the ability to upgrade to iOS7 because it all but breaks their device. They knew it would ruin those phones and knowingly allowed them to be upgraded anyway. At the very least, they should have said "Upgrading to iOS7 will severely hinder the performance of your device and cause serious issues that may become bothersome."
In the plaintiff's case, this is equivalent to Ford REMOVING a working part from your three-year old car, and telling you to install a different engine if you want the part--and its function--restored. Unfortunately, the new engine wasn't optimized for your car, so you'll probably experience a performance hit in general.
We need more lawsuits like this to counter the expensive, forced obsolescence that occurs at an unnatural pace with consumer electronics. If anything, manufacturers should leave existing products alone when they introduce new ones--not handicap the former. Ultimately, consumers need a guarantee of the minimum mileage they can expect from the services that are bundled with the hardware. If a manufacturer can't deliver on that guarantee, then they should be obligated to replace unsupported hardware with new.