Apple Denied Motion to Dismiss Lawsuit Related to Disabling FaceTime on iOS 6 and Earlier

[iMi]

In the plaintiff's case, this is equivalent to Ford REMOVING a working part from your three-year old car, and telling you to install a different engine if you want the part--and its function--restored. Unfortunately, the new engine wasn't optimized for your car, so you'll probably experience a performance hit in general.

We need more lawsuits like this to counter the expensive, forced obsolescence that occurs at an unnatural pace with consumer electronics. If anything, manufacturers should leave existing products alone when they introduce new ones--not handicap the former. Ultimately, consumers need a guarantee of the minimum mileage they can expect from the services that are bundled with the hardware. If a manufacturer can't deliver on that guarantee, then they should be obligated to replace unsupported hardware with new.

Apple is not asking the user to remove anything from the device. This is not an apt comparison. A better comparison would be Ford asking you to install an updated software that may or may not change the performance of the vehicle. Everything I've seen at this point in the debate says that the alleged performance issues are not substantiated. It certainly has not been subjectively measured. It's an aging hardware, too.

I understand the sentiment, but don't agree with you about requiring support for old hardware or software. It costs money and ties up resources. I would much prefer to have Apple make a few years-old hardware obsolete and re-depoloy those resources to the development of new products.

We can't complain on one hand that the hardware is too expensive and that it takes Apple too long to develop new products and at the same time bitch that they don't spend more time and money supporting phones from five years ago. These lawsuits just cost the company more - a cost they pass onto you, the consumer. No, thank you. Update your phone and move on already. If it no longer works the way you want it, buy a new one.

An iPhone purchased five years ago at $750 would have cost the user average of about 41 cents a day or $12.71 a month if they retired the device today. That's two cups of coffee a month. Stop being a cheap bastard and buy a new phone already. You got your money's worth. That's what I would say to the people suing Apple over this ******** claim.

 

[rjohnstone]

It's not a legitimate claim. Just update the software. If the performance of the phone no longer meets your needs, get a new phone. It's that simple. Besides, 4-5 years is a reasonable useful lifespan for a consumer electronics device - especially a smartphone.

The phones were less than 3 years old when Apple broke FaceTime on iOS6.
The phones worked fine until Apple broke them, so the "performance" issue was created by the company that would financially benefit from the diminished functionality of an older product.

10 years, by the way, is a decade. June 2007 to July 2017 would indeed be "over a decade" ago.

And your point is?
The iPhone 4/4S were not released in 2007. They were released in 2010 and 2011 respectively. iOS7 was released in 2013.

 

[iMi]

The phones were less than 3 years old when Apple broke FaceTime on iOS6.
The phones worked fine until Apple broke them, so the "performance" issue was created by the company that would financially benefit from the diminished functionality of an older product.


And your point is?
The iPhone 4/4S were not released in 2007. They were released in 2010 and 2011 respectively. iOS7 was released in 2013.

You are right about the timeline. I was confused for a moment, thinking that we were talking about the original iPhone. Three years is a little short, I agree. If the "performance" issue can be verified and substantiated, then perhaps there is a merit to this claim.

Honestly - even three years is a long time for a smart phone. I am not just saying that to justify my point of view. It's problematic. But a full-blown lawsuit is a little much. Most people would just buy a new phone, I think. That's my opinion.

One part of the story that I don't understand and maybe you can clarify - did Apple force the update to iOS 7 or did the user updated on their own? I don't remember seeing anything about that part.

 

[Juicy Box]

Apple doesn't "force" you to install an update

There could be a situation that they force an update on you.

If Apple supports determines your device is defective, and they replace it, you might end up with a different OS on your replacement.

 

[0924487]

People were happy to keep the old iOS, but Apple decided to kill a feature out from under them. People paid for that feature when they purchased the phone. So rather than actually fix their issue with VirnetX, they killed it. Every update Apple forces upon older models cripples the device further and further. It's been shown time and time again that every update makes your device run slower and slower. I for one am looking forward to my piece of the settlement.

Your iPhone will not become slower within 2 years of original release, or 3 years for iPad and 4 years for Mac, which is the optimal lifespan they are rated for. After that, performance problems and compromises are expected, which can be solved by upgrading or recycling your devices.

 

[lec0rsaire]

There’s the rub. Apple’s ecosystem is proprietary. Some features/abilities, it limits to its own apps. Those abilities are often highlighted in their marketing.

Facetime was so integral to Apple’s early iPhone marketing boasts, that not only was it preinstalled, it couldn’t be deleted. That implies that the service was inseparable from the hardware.

Judging from Apple’s eventual concession to allow users to omit or delete many of Apple’s stock apps, Apple is probably avoiding future lawsuits like this one.

I agree but it was also a longtime request from millions of iOS users. I always liked that Apple stood their ground in terms of not allowing carriers to install their bloatware not label the front or back of handsets with tacky carrier logos. Jobs even negotitated with Intel not to ruin their beautiful macs with those gaudy Intel Inside stickers.

 

[dk001]

Your iPhone will not become slower within 2 years of original release, or 3 years for iPad and 4 years for Mac, which is the optimal lifespan they are rated for. After that, performance problems and compromises are expected, which can be solved by upgrading or recycling your devices.

Since when?
In comparison to a newer device yes. But an iPhone should not become slower by design. It may have difficulty with newer software or an inability to connect to newer peripherals.
These may be the expected lifespan based on Apple's "want" to ensure a level of recycle buying.
Unless Apple is deliberately engineering in a hardware, software, or both factor.

 

[rjohnstone]

One part of the story that I don't understand and maybe you can clarify - did Apple force the update to iOS 7 or did the user updated on their own? I don't remember seeing anything about that part.

They were forced in the sense that if they wanted a functional FaceTime app, they had to upgrade to iOS7.
Plus the phone nags you anyway when an update is available.

Not sure if it did it with iOS6/7, but currently the phone will download the update automatically in the background when on WiFi. This consumes storage space and you have no option to delete it if you don't want to upgrade. So you basically lose 1-1.5GB of storage space to an update you might not want.
But that's a whole other issue.

And for the record, I rarely keep a phone longer than a year.

 

[Defthand]

Apple is not asking the user to remove anything from the device. This is not an apt comparison.

I understand the sentiment, but don't agree with you about requiring support for old hardware or software.

Of course they removed it! They nullified the existing software so that it no longer functioned. Users were required to change the operating system in order to use a different iteration of FaceTime. Users were reluctant, because the newer OS wasn’t optimized for their hardware.

No one is advocating that Apple should support older hardware and software indefinitely. However, it’s equally unreasonable, and foolish, to dispose of working phones every two years if you have no need for the latest improvements. In that short time, the battery is the only casualty. What cripples an older phone is newer software that needs the latest hardware to work efficiently.

I have a 2008? MacBook Pro that still runs like new. Why? Because the installed OS and third party apps are ones that the hardware supported. I actually reverted to an earlier OS when a newer one performed sluggishly.

Add to that, a click wheel iPod that still plays fine. Replaced its battery four times over the years.

I’ve owned a lot of Apple products over the decades, beginning with an Apple LC, so I don’t qualify as a “cheap bastard”. At the same time, I baby my toys and tools, and don’t like to buy the same sh** again and again. Using your reasoning, I should throw away an $800 stereo receiver after two or three years of use!

 

[B4U]

I knew the coffee was hot, but I chose to drink it right away anyways. Now I'm rich. 'Murica

Wait, what?
How is that even relevant?
[doublepost=1501638598][/doublepost]

Exactly, this is about expectations.

If it's a bug then user needs to upgrade OS, As far as I can tell no device is stuck on ios6 as such.

http://www.everyi.com/by-capability/maximum-supported-ios-version-for-ipod-iphone-ipad.html

I see this as a landmark case that if won would mean payouts for any version of any software where features were broken regardless of if there was an update. Thats just not acceptable and can't see this ever winning ever.

Apple did release 6.1.6 for the 4th gen iPod touch where it is stuck with iOS 6, which (surprise!) also did fix the FaceTime for said device, but decided not to let 6.1.6 go out to iPhone 4 or 4S.
[doublepost=1501639234][/doublepost]

It's not a legitimate claim. Just update the software. If the performance of the phone no longer meets your needs, get a new phone. It's that simple. Besides, 4-5 years is a reasonable useful lifespan for a consumer electronics device - especially a smartphone.

10 years, by the way, is a decade. June 2007 to July 2017 would indeed be "over a decade" ago.

4S came out in 2011 and was discontinued in 2014, while iOS 7 came out in 2013 which would be the latest date where consumers would be able to buy the 4S brand new with iOS 6.
I am no mathematics major, but there is no 4-5 years no matter how we cut it.
[doublepost=1501639466][/doublepost]

There could be a situation that they force an update on you.

If Apple supports determines your device is defective, and they replace it, you might end up with a different OS on your replacement.

Exactly what Apple is trying to pull on me when they sold me the first batch of 6s with the defective battery. They claim that "upgrading" (debatable, but I will leave that aside for now) to iOS10 shall fix the battery issue.
How does getting the new software fixes a defective hardware is simply beyond BS to me.

 

[MH01]

Your analogy Does not work for this case. Apple fix a SOFTWARE issue with iOS 7. The person in this suit claims upgrading is bad for her iPhone 4/4s. Which is bogus as Apple fixed any issue relating to performance.

Your analogy would be better suited if you stated it like this:

You bought a Ford with kumho tyres. Later ford cannot supply said tyres because of contractual issues. They switch to Goodyears on all their existing and future models. You heard Goodyears make your Ford a little slower. Ford has made sure these tyres for your older model, have been custom made to address that specific issue.

But you still want them to supply Kumhos.

Sorry wrong analogy. Choose any other part of your ford that has perfectly working hardware, that is disabled when you take your car in for a service cause ford is too lazy to support your car anymore. And when you complain they show you a new model.....all along the hardware in your car is fine, just disabled due to your last service, which you did not know was going to happen, but under the conditions of the service its fords right to install the software on the car you bought.....

 

[0924487]

Since when?
In comparison to a newer device yes. But an iPhone should not become slower by design. It may have difficulty with newer software or an inability to connect to newer peripherals.
These may be the expected lifespan based on Apple's "want" to ensure a level of recycle buying.
Unless Apple is deliberately engineering in a hardware, software, or both factor.

Because of the normal course of wear and tear.

Also, you have to upgrade your OS to get all the patches security or service, there is no way around that. Apple will only independently develop new sub-variants of an older OS for those devices that cannot upgrade to the latest OS at all. For example, iPhone 4 is not able to run IOS 10, so Apple is forced to update IOS 7 for iPhone 4 users if there are critical security issues for a period of time, which is until when a device becomes ventage and obsolete. It cost a company tremendous amount of money to maintain all versions of an OS across all devices. Developers would have to use a lower API level to accommodate for those of who are on an older OS, which hurts the new buyers and innovation. We never use the highest or most current and updated API level on Android, we really want to, but no one is on it to make it worth a while, as it will break the app for people who are running an OS below the API level. Apple knows that and they want us to prioritize development for the newest users only and expand support for older OS and hardware whenever possible and convenient. That is why once you upgrade, you cannot downgrade after Apple considers the OS to be stable enough and stops signing the old OS.

Regarding why your devices slow after upgrading, it is not that Apple or the developers are writing code like if running on old devices, delay 300 milliseconds here and there... No, we optimize the OS and apps based on the latest hardware, then we see what we broke on older devices and patch the holes. Since they are afterthoughts... you will feel that they are an afterthought.

When you buy an iPhone, you are using the latest technology and highly optimized software on every level of your experience. Years later, you are using an afterthought on every level of your experience. I think that makes a difference.

 

[dk001]

Because of the normal course of wear and tear.

Also, you have to upgrade your OS to get all the patches security or service, there is no way around that. Apple will only independently develop new sub-variants of an older OS for those devices that cannot upgrade to the latest OS at all. For example, iPhone 4 is not able to run IOS 10, so Apple is forced to update IOS 7 for iPhone 4 users if there are critical security issues for a period of time, which is until when a device becomes ventage and obsolete. It cost a company tremendous amount of money to maintain all versions of an OS across all devices. Developers would have to use a lower API level to accommodate for those of who are on an older OS, which hurts the new buyers and innovation. We never use the highest or most current and updated API level on Android, we really want to, but no one is on it to make it worth a while, as it will break the app for people who are running an OS below the API level. Apple knows that and they want us to prioritize development for the newest users only and expand support for older OS and hardware whenever possible and convenient. That is why once you upgrade, you cannot downgrade after Apple considers the OS to be stable enough and stops signing the old OS.

Regarding why your devices slow after upgrading, it is not that Apple or the developers are writing code like if running on old devices, delay 300 milliseconds here and there... No, we optimize the OS and apps based on the latest hardware, then we see what we broke on older devices and patch the holes. Since they are afterthoughts... you will feel that they are an afterthought.

When you buy an iPhone, you are using the latest technology and highly optimized software on every level of your experience. Years later, you are using an afterthought on every level of your experience. I think that makes a difference.

Everything you said is true. Still, Apple apparently did this as a cost saving measure and lied to those who inquired about it. Like I mentioned earlier, if they had just come out and said "here is what we are doing" and "why", there would have been no lawsuit. That iOS7 borked the i4/i4S was fuel on the fire.

 

[AZ63]

It is not your job to wait and update especially if you receive push notification. Testing should be done prior any release on all devices.

Yes, and when the light turns green I should be able to go without fear of someone running a red light, but I still look before I start. Don't you? Same idea here. It is my job to look out for me.

 

[mikecorp]

Yes, and when the light turns green I should be able to go without fear of someone running a red light, but I still look before I start. Don't you? Same idea here. It is my job to look out for me.

If you are slow to follow do not reply.

 

[AZ63]

If you are slow to follow do not reply.

I didn't know we were having a conversation. Funny that you choose not to address what I said but attack me. That is what people do when they are losing.
But good times.

 

[tripmusic]

Wait, what?
How is that even relevant?

People suing companies over ridiculous things and user stupidity?

 

[B4U]

People suing companies over ridiculous things and user stupidity?

Ridiculous thing is a phone's feature was deliberately disabled by Apple.
I do not see any user stupidity in this case at all.