Wouldn't Windows Update have required a reboot by this time? Or is it just the desktop OS that insists on rebooting after applying updates?
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Apple Details Lion Purchase Process for Business and Education
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Wouldn't Windows Update have required a reboot by this time? Or is it just the desktop OS that insists on rebooting after applying updates?
It's dead easy to create a bootable flash drive or DVD. It is literally no more complicated than say, creating an audio CD in iTunes, or burning a disk in disk utility.
You can install the single download to all machines with the same iTunes account. The which is current App Store practice.
And, as mentioned in the article above: "...volume license customers will receive one redemption code for each contract... This Lion installer is used to install Lion on other systems. Download once, install many times."
So so so wrong.
Haha wow. Um no? Coming from someone who's actually in the IT world proffesionaly, specifically someone who works with your typical home and small business user, you couldn't be more wrong. I could even go so far as to say that's patently idiotic. Some people specifically don't update every release because it's too much of a pain. It makes a lot more sense for your average user to wait a couple years because it's kind of a pain to transition their stuff every year. When I run into clients running Leopard I don't really make a big deal about upgrading to Snow Leopard, but I will insist on upgrading to Lion.
As far as the Mac App store only installation method, I have to admit I'm not in love with it yet. I'm HOPING I just haven't read all the details on it yet, because according to what I've read so far it sounds like it's going to make the whole process much more difficult. I guess we'll see.
Haha wow. Um no? Coming from someone who's actually in the IT world proffesionaly, specifically someone who works with your typical home and small business user, you couldn't be more wrong. I could even go so far as to say that's patently idiotic. Some people specifically don't update every release because it's too much of a pain. It makes a lot more sense for your average user to wait a couple years because it's kind of a pain to transition their stuff every year. When I run into clients running Leopard I don't really make a big deal about upgrading to Snow Leopard, but I will insist on upgrading to Lion.
As far as the Mac App store only installation method, I have to admit I'm not in love with it yet. I'm HOPING I just haven't read all the details on it yet, because according to what I've read so far it sounds like it's going to make the whole process much more difficult. I guess we'll see.
Not really, because they have the dmg hidden inside an installer package. The average user is not going to know that they can use "show package contents" to get it.
That's why you restore it to a partition or flash drive instead.
As to your first concern, the Apple Way works. It's an effective system whereby developers make money and users get great apps. No complaints so far, All we're seeing is PROFIT. The market has spoken and they have said YES to Apple's "walled garden", which is currently the only truly successful hardware/software ecosystem. Curiously the average consumer is perfectly fine with this. It's the IT/geek contingent on tech forums that whine about it constantly and make it seem like the sky is falling. Because they want to mix Apple's business model with elements of the Wintel business model. Except it doesn't work that way.
Time to get with reality, poindexter. In some circles the regular IT establishment *does not* dictate the course of tech.
Solution? Tell consumers to quit giving their money to Apple. Tell them to quit being satisfied with Apple's ecosystem. Tell them to stop handing Apple record quarters in nearly all their key areas.
Good luck with that.
If you don't like Apple's business model personally, you can leave it. It makes more sense to leave and use something else than bellyache about it constantly on MR. You complain about the same things, yet they never change.
As to your second concern: one company makes desirable products that consumers love. The other can't even get a basic smartphone update right, for a device that might have been relevant like two years ago. In other words, one's got the consumer tech game absolutely nailed, while the other is still trying to find their bearings.
These issues are invariably expressed in each company's products.
iPad 2 vs. a concept video on YouTube.
Enjoy Lion.
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Sadly the server requires reboots when applying (security) updates. Much like OS X.
Yeah, that's why I would be surprised to find a Windows server with an uptime of more than a couple of months. I worked on a Unix server with an uptime of 4 years (until a hardware fault took it down).
The only time we ever had to reboot our Linux servers was when something went wrong with likewise open.
very good analysis Winni! i agree 100%
thank God there will always be linux, which actually respects its user, is highly customizable and don't force things on the user.
i'm a mac user for almost 3 years now and i really like mac os x, but the recent development -the ios -ification of lion and the fact that it's so tied to the app store- doesn't feel right, to put it in nice words .
but people like you and me are the minority in the apple universe, sad but true
i'm sure that people who applaud apple for this move, call them fanboys, call them whatever you like, won't do the same for google ..(which actually did the same thing, tie a whole os to an account .)
Until your HD dies and you need to do a clean install onto a blank drive.... Or you sell you computer and want to wipe the disk and do a clean install, or... etc
the walled garden works great for mobile devices, at least for now, but on the desktop and notebook market it doesn't work so well, as it seems. maybe you can remind me the marketshare of apple in that categories compared to the wintel machines oh wait! i think it's under 10% .
apple shouldn't be so arrogant or they will end up just like in the 90's, eventually
the higher they get, the deeper they fall .
Of course it depends on the nature of the patch - some require reboots, many don't. My HP servers can update disk drivers, network drivers, NIC firmware, RAID software, CPU firmware and similar stuff *without* a reboot needed. Windows has the ability to hot replace kernel software without rebooting - although consumer level drivers seldom use the feature.
Also note that production servers are rarely running automatic updates. For a server with no one logging in directly except an occasional admin, with a limited set of applications and services running - many of the patches are irrelevant. Admins will choose which patches to apply, and choose maintenance windows to apply them. Patches that fix problems that don't apply to the server are ignored.
Windows Server 2008 and later have a configuration feature called "roles". The base system contains the kernel, filesystem, basic network stack and little else. If you want a domain controller, you add the "domain controller role". If you want a DNS server, you add that role. If you want a virtual machine host, you add the Hyper-V role.
A recommended practice is to install the Hyper-V role on the hardware, and create multiple VMs to run the various roles.
When it's patch time - any patches for roles that haven't been configured are ignored. A DNS patch that requires a reboot isn't a problem if you haven't activated the DNS role (or requires a reboot for the VM running the DNS role without affecting other VMs).
Doing a clean install is nice but not as necessary as people are making it out to be. If I lose a drive I'll restore from a time machine backup. If I'm going to sell the computer I'll just use the restore dvd's that came with it. It I want to install it on my multiple macs I'll download it once and copy it to the other macs through sharing...
Still I would gave liked the carrot approach to pushing digital download updates rather than the stick approach. Say $29.99 digital download or say $79.99 for it on a USB. Of course people would complain about that then too... Heck if Apple gave out free ice cream the people who are lactose intolerant would complain.
You have some serious delusions about what works for consumers and what works for enterprises. I think a big part of that is you yourself produce nothing in either space. Software companies that develop for the enterprise market will never be able to hock their wares on any app store model, as they will undoubtedly have their own licensing scheme, and that will not work hand in hand with the App store licensing model. Also factor in enterprises want one on one licensing not to have to deal with two parties at once: Apple and the company that produces the software.
The enterprise pc hardware and software market dwarfs the consumer market in terms income from hardware sales, software seats and Apple is virtually nil in that space. That's a fact! Maybe not here on Macrumors, but it's a fact in the real world! You may have drank the kool-aid, "post pc world" BS, and that's fine because you probably don't need to be any more than a dumb terminal user, but it makes you looking like a flailing idiot when you try to lump enterprises into that segment of the market.
Apple is fast becoming the de-facto dominant player in the mobile market, but I would wager that would not be the case if it wasn't for the options afforded by the enterprise distribution model. If we are a company we can bypass the App Store model and distribute application internally with our own system.
This still is only half the battle. Enterprises should be able to create enterprise software for sale or licensing to third parties which they do not want on the App Store. This isn't possible at this moment in time under current licensing agreements, but I would imagine will be a matter of a contentious court debate in the future.
Why do you continue to post nonsense at every turn when it's obvious you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?
I was never talking about the enterprise. The IT dept. mentality extends even to the consumer market. That's what I was referring to.
Apple has never been a major player in the enterprise, and they aren't now. There are others that fill that role. As far as I'm concerned others can continue to fill that role forever. Obviously, I'm just thinking as a consumer here. Apple addresses Joe Average's concerns, so fair enough. I'm pretty sure what enterprise presence they do have it well looked after, but I have little to no experience in that area.
Apple plays in the consumer market. They're currently worth more than Microsoft and Intel put together, and have $70 billion or so burning a hole in their pocket. They sell record numbers of nearly everything they make, quarter for quarter. Their Mac business has outpaced the PC market for more quarters than most people can remember.
(Where iPads are already making an impression.)
You're trying to create a problem which doesn't actually exist, but more likely we simply had a misunderstanding, probably because I wasn't being clear.
Have you asked Apple?
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Took Windows Server long enough to catch up to what *nix admins have been doing ever since VMs were suitable for business use.
I love these debates.
From what I've seen, there is a bootable .dmg in the installer package. While an average user won't know where to find that, an IT professional will be able to figure that out and put in on a USB for later use. The average user doesn't need it, they can download from the App Store and run the install. If they need to restore their system, they can do it from a Time Machine backup. Really no big deal.
As an individual user, I'm thrilled with the new model. Pressing DVD's to include with every machine is a waste of money. They get lost or damaged so when they're actually needed they're no help.
Some say that downloading is inconvenient and time consuming. So let me get this straight, it takes 6 hours, 8 hours, 24 hours whatever to download the file. OK I get that, but how is that worse than waiting several days for a package to ship, or spending time driving to an Apple Store to pick up a DVD? If you're in a dial up only area, chances are there isn't an Apple store right around the corner.
Some don't want to be "locked in" to the App Store. How exactly are you locked in? Even if it was available in a physical format, you'd still be giving your money to Apple. It's not like you're going to buy the disc from Microsoft. If you don't want to log a credit card in an iTunes account you don't have to, go to the nearest gas station or grocery store and grab a $30 iTunes prepaid card. Apple doesn't require you to have a credit card on file. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth to me, but hey, to each their own.
Personally, I've never met a Mac user who doesn't have an Apple ID, it's pretty much a given at this point. If you are in that small minority, then you're not taking advantage of the vast majority of the services that Lion has to offer anyway, so why even bother upgrading.
For large enterprise accounts, I'm sure that Apple will make sure you're taken care of. It's just good business sense and is likely better handled on a case by case basis anyway. My business is small, we use only a couple of Macs, but we've never had any trouble getting service from Apple. A lot of our questions have been pretty stupid too.
The bottom line here is that some people just aren't comfortable with change. That's just the way it is. Others just like to complain and dump negativity all over everything no matter what. One poster mentioned that Apple could give away free ice cream and people would still complain, he's obviously right.
The Lion upgrade looks like it's got some tools that are going to be really helpful for my small business. We've got only one truly company owned machine with its own iTunes account. The rest are personal machines that get brought in from time to time. Maybe we don't have to worry about all of this as much as some do, but it just seems like a lot of stress and worry over nothing.
From what I've seen, there is a bootable .dmg in the installer package. While an average user won't know where to find that, an IT professional will be able to figure that out and put in on a USB for later use. The average user doesn't need it, they can download from the App Store and run the install. If they need to restore their system, they can do it from a Time Machine backup. Really no big deal.
As an individual user, I'm thrilled with the new model. Pressing DVD's to include with every machine is a waste of money. They get lost or damaged so when they're actually needed they're no help.
Some say that downloading is inconvenient and time consuming. So let me get this straight, it takes 6 hours, 8 hours, 24 hours whatever to download the file. OK I get that, but how is that worse than waiting several days for a package to ship, or spending time driving to an Apple Store to pick up a DVD? If you're in a dial up only area, chances are there isn't an Apple store right around the corner.
Some don't want to be "locked in" to the App Store. How exactly are you locked in? Even if it was available in a physical format, you'd still be giving your money to Apple. It's not like you're going to buy the disc from Microsoft. If you don't want to log a credit card in an iTunes account you don't have to, go to the nearest gas station or grocery store and grab a $30 iTunes prepaid card. Apple doesn't require you to have a credit card on file. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth to me, but hey, to each their own.
Personally, I've never met a Mac user who doesn't have an Apple ID, it's pretty much a given at this point. If you are in that small minority, then you're not taking advantage of the vast majority of the services that Lion has to offer anyway, so why even bother upgrading.
For large enterprise accounts, I'm sure that Apple will make sure you're taken care of. It's just good business sense and is likely better handled on a case by case basis anyway. My business is small, we use only a couple of Macs, but we've never had any trouble getting service from Apple. A lot of our questions have been pretty stupid too.
The bottom line here is that some people just aren't comfortable with change. That's just the way it is. Others just like to complain and dump negativity all over everything no matter what. One poster mentioned that Apple could give away free ice cream and people would still complain, he's obviously right.
The Lion upgrade looks like it's got some tools that are going to be really helpful for my small business. We've got only one truly company owned machine with its own iTunes account. The rest are personal machines that get brought in from time to time. Maybe we don't have to worry about all of this as much as some do, but it just seems like a lot of stress and worry over nothing.
catch up - and surpass
But Windows changed it from admin voodoo about which cryptically named packages to install to easily understandable and configurable roles.
Off the top of your head, tell me which packages need to be installed to make an RHEL 5 DNS server.... On Win2008, you check the "DNS Server Role" box.
Took Windows Server long enough to catch up to what *nix admins have been doing ever since VMs were suitable for business use.
But Windows changed it from admin voodoo about which cryptically named packages to install to easily understandable and configurable roles.
Off the top of your head, tell me which packages need to be installed to make an RHEL 5 DNS server.... On Win2008, you check the "DNS Server Role" box.
Code:
yum install bind
or for extra security
yum install bind-chrootor select DNS Server in software configuration. Use up2date if you still use it instead of yum.
Hardly voodoo, don't make excuses for ignorance and incompetence.
And don't defend obscurity and obfuscation....
If you can type the "yum" command, you already have a running Linux system - with Gord only knows how many packages unnecessary for a DNS server are running.
Since I was talking about "roles" and minimal systems, it should have been obvious in context that my question wasn't
Off the top of your head, tell me which packages need to be installed to make an RHEL 5 DNS server....
but was
Off the top of your head, tell me which packages need to be installed to make an RHEL 5 system which is only a DNS server....
"yum"ing a bit of bind on top of the standard installation doesn't meet that goal.
Word your questions better.
On top of ANY Linux kernel, the only package you need to install is BIND to make it a DNS Server as BIND has no dependencies. You will need a build environment if you are building it form scratch however.
Though on a minimal RHEL install, you would just need bind.
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