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Apple Details Lion Purchase Process for Business and Education

MorphingDragon said:
How so and in what way? XCode 4 was an improvement over 3 and distribution methods was a complete non-issue.
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Actually, it has been a bit of an issue, particularly for schools and other organizations that would like to offer the dev tools to multiple users.

The two ways to get XCode 4 are either to pay $99 and get it through the Developer Program, or buy it through the Mac App Store. Getting it through the Developer Program clearly indicates it is not for further distribution... and getting it through the Mac App Store also limits redistribution.

As of right now, there is no way that I'm aware of to get XCode 4 and legally place it onto machines in a computer lab, for instance.
 
Nermal said:
According to the linked PDF you need to buy 20 copies for the business licence, and the original question was about installing it on 10 machines. not 20.

As far as I'm aware, you're not allowed to use the "home version" in a commercial environment, but apologies if I'm mistaken. (Edit: See below).
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So you but the license for 20 and use 10. You are still not paying $129 or more each. If you clinic grows, you'll have extra seats. Total cost is $580. Compare this to 10 seats for Windows 7.
 
Apple's "real" solution to all this upgrade drama is for everyone to buy all new systems when Lion is out and pre-installed. Do you think they will include system software on USB key or DVD then?

On my Mac Pro I switched my boot drive to a SSD and installed Snow Leopard from the DVD, so for Lion there is no solution for doing that... for now... so either there will be physical media OR Apple doesn't ever want you to upgrade or repair your boot drive (very likely) without bringing it in for service.
 
alfonsog said:
Apple's "real" solution to all this upgrade drama is for everyone to buy all new systems when Lion is out and pre-installed. Do you think they will include system software on USB key or DVD then?
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Nope.

On my Mac Pro I switched my boot drive to a SSD and installed Snow Leopard from the DVD, so for Lion there is no solution for doing that... for now... so either there will be physical media OR Apple doesn't ever want you to upgrade or repair your boot drive (very likely) without bringing it in for service.
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You got it. (Though you can do maintenance and repair via the restore partition.)
 
Stella said:
Except having to re-download 4 gigs every time an update came out.
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And except for the fact that it isn't free anymore, not matter how much the cheerleaders try to justify it is "cheaper". A guy with a Mac can't just say "Hey, I want to try to write code for this thing using Apple's tools" anymore without forking over the cash.
 
KnightWRX said:
As a department, IT needs clear guidelines and needs to draw lines. You can't just support a big mess and free-for-all and you can't make your users force upgrades that might or might not require tons of infrastructure upgrades along the way.
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It's unfortunately not my call, and there's a deeply-embedded cultural issue that we've been fighting for years. That said, you're absolutely right on this point, and I quite agree with you.


However, the issue with new hardware remains out of our control. We can't stop buying new hardware to replace old/broken college-owned equipment, we can't forbid students to purchase new Macs, and Mac OS (unlike most Windows variants) flat-out refuses to boot on hardware newer than itself. This means I'm in the Lion business come August/September, IT guidelines be damned. Apple could make this easier on the enterprise, but they seem to be uninterested at the moment.
 
KnightWRX said:
And except for the fact that it isn't free anymore, not matter how much the cheerleaders try to justify it is "cheaper". A guy with a Mac can't just say "Hey, I want to try to write code for this thing using Apple's tools" anymore without forking over the cash.
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Technically true, but you're being melodramatic. "Forking over the cash?" It's $5.
 
Cougarcat said:
Nope.



You got it. (Though you can do maintenance and repair via the restore partition.)
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I agree 100% Apple is following the lead of PC manufactures with regards to not shipping DVD's anymore with the system. It sucks for us "IT Guru's" but that is the way it is.

I hope though that I can make my own DVD in much the same way you can make your own "Recovery DVD" with many PC's.
 
 
Cougarcat said:
What? You would be buying a business license, you are allowed to do this.

Anyway, for home users, you can also install it on any mac that uses your AppleID.
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But there's a 20 license minimum to qualify for the business price though, right?
 
krzyglue said:
But there's a 20 license minimum to qualify for the business price though, right?
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Yes, but even if you only utilized ten licenses, it would end up costing you $90 each, which is still less than full OS upgrades have been in the past. And you'd have licenses left over if you needed them, of course.
 
DannySmurf said:
Technically true, but you're being melodramatic. "Forking over the cash?" It's $5.
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I think it also remains to be seen if buying the release version Lion will entitle you to a free copy of Xcode 4 or not. (This will be the case for FaceTime, $1 Mac App Store for Snow Leopard, but included with Lion.)

B
 
GFLPraxis said:
Crap how? (seriously asking, never used it)

Like, worse than a free LAMP setup?
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I've never used OS X Server myself either, but it speaks volumes that Apple always ran Solaris on Sun hardware in their data centers instead of their own Xserves and OS X server. The also use Java for their server side software (not Objective-C). If Apple don't eat their own dog food, why should anybody else?

The free LAMP stack on the other hand is battle-tested and the de facto Internet server standard for a reason.
 
Kwill said:
So you but the license for 20 and use 10. You are still not paying $129 or more each. If you clinic grows, you'll have extra seats. Total cost is $580. Compare this to 10 seats for Windows 7.
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If you want to make this comparison from a business perspective, prepare yourself to discover that Windows is well worth the money and that OS X still is not viable platform for most businesses. There's more to being a business platform than just being able to open Microsoft Office documents - that's just where it begins.
 
DannySmurf said:
They can. Or, as enough people have said now, they can download once and create bootable media from what they've downloaded.
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Sorry if this is a dumb question, I don't have access to the DP or anything.

How easy is this process? I mean *easy*, as in virtually idiot proof...


Cougarcat said:
Yes, but even if you only utilized ten licenses, it would end up costing you $90 each, which is still less than full OS upgrades have been in the past. And you'd have licenses left over if you needed them, of course.
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Hmm, still seems a bit wasteful.
 
MCIowaRulz said:
I agree 100% Apple is following the lead of PC manufactures with regards to not shipping DVD's anymore with the system. It sucks for us "IT Guru's" but that is the way it is.

I hope though that I can make my own DVD in much the same way you can make your own "Recovery DVD" with many PC's.
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Personally, I don't want a Recovery DVD or Recovery partition at all. I don't care if Apple still sells the OS on an installation medium, I only care if I can either burn a "real" OS installation DVD and/or a USB stick with the OS on it. And I want to be able to entirely wipe out the hard disk and install the system from scratch.

But my greatest concern with this whole thing is: I don't want to be locked into Apple's AppStore. But with this step, they effectively force all their customers into the AppStore - they're creating the same walled garden of OS X that they've created for iOS.

Imagine if Microsoft did the same thing with Windows. MS would drown in lawsuits, and they would lose every single one of them.

I never understood how people could love Apple and at the same time hate Microsoft, although both companies are basically using the same anti-competitive, monopolistic and evil business practices. The only difference is that Apple manages to seduce people into buying their poison or lures them with lies and false promises into their digital prision, while Microsoft uses a club to push their customers into staying with them.

In any case, Lion is a cleverly placed trap. You won't be able to use it without a valid AppStore accont. Since the AppStore still shows a significant lack of quality or professional software, Apple had to do something to make sure that ALL of their customers HAVE TO use the AppStore. So they pulled a typical Microsoft stunt and announced that henceforth OS X will only be sold through their AppStore.

I don't know about you guys, but I really don't like where this is going, and if you value your independence, I think it's time to jump ship. Macs are no longer luxury liners. Under their beautiful skin, they are becoming slave galleys.
 
germinator said:
Why? Does the installation require an AppleID? Or is it only the DOWNLOAD that requires the AppleID?
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krzyglue said:
Sorry if this is a dumb question, I don't have access to the DP or anything.

How easy is this process? I mean *easy*, as in virtually idiot proof.
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It's not idiot proof. You have to right click on the installer and select show package contents to find the dmg. It's obviously not something intended by Apple.
 
Winni said:
I've never used OS X Server myself either, but it speaks volumes that Apple always ran Solaris on Sun hardware in their data centers instead of their own Xserves and OS X server. The also use Java for their server side software (not Objective-C). If Apple don't eat their own dog food, why should anybody else?

The free LAMP stack on the other hand is battle-tested and the de facto Internet server standard for a reason.
Click to expand...

LAMP? LNMP is where it's at right now ;)
 
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KnightWRX said:
And except for the fact that it isn't free anymore, not matter how much the cheerleaders try to justify it is "cheaper". A guy with a Mac can't just say "Hey, I want to try to write code for this thing using Apple's tools" anymore without forking over the cash.
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Actually XCode 3.2 is still available so they can. Come July, they won't be able to, only if they want to develop on Lion. If people want to keep "hobby development" on Snow Leopard, they still can keep using 3.2 for free even after they buy Lion. And 3.2 produced software will run on Lion, just the tools won't run on Lion.
 
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Cougarcat said:
It's not idiot proof. You have to right click on the installer and select show package contents to find the dmg. It's obviously not something intended by Apple.
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Then again, if Apple really didn't want people to do something like that, they easily could have not put a bootable .dmg directly inside the installer and make it much more complicated. The only issue with installing like that is that for some reason, if you burn the .dmg onto a DVD, it takes forever for the DVD to boot, much longer than a regular Apple Install DVD.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
This is a freaking disaster. How are enterprises suppose to develop images without the media. This is not good.
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Enterprises shouldn't be using Macs. Apple's all about accommodating "the kids, old folks, and computer illiterate". It's why they are making "the experience" more iOS like.

Why do you think they criticize Android? You actually have something different with a little learning to do. Personal responsibly? Surely you jest!

Just ask the Apple Faithful, they'd throw a tantrum if they had to tell their grandparents that Macs are a wee bit harder to operate, than flipping the switch to turn on the lights. :rolleyes:
 
Winni said:
I've never used OS X Server myself either, but it speaks volumes that Apple always ran Solaris on Sun hardware in their data centers instead of their own Xserves and OS X server. The also use Java for their server side software (not Objective-C). If Apple don't eat their own dog food, why should anybody else?

The free LAMP stack on the other hand is battle-tested and the de facto Internet server standard for a reason.
Click to expand...

Which for all intents and purposes is extremely sad. Because the graphical shell that sits upon Darwin and their version of Mach kernel is written in Objective-C and in my opinion is a much better graphical environment than Windows. The networking stack and their vfs are all BSD implementations. The operating system is itself is POSIX compliant.

It's far from the truth that the operating system as a whole would not be great as a server class operating system - it's that the current management structure could care less about bringing it up to snuff and using their own IP.

For web applications such as MobilMe Apple's visual framework is provides by SproutCore. If you are looking for a more Objective-C feel on the web you can go with the proven Objective-J (Cappuccino Framework). Apple in my opinion should buy the founding company 280 North and roll Objective-J into their own frameworks.
 
longofest said:
Yes... I have used multiple versions of Mac OS X Server (10.3 and 10.4 server), and abandoned it because they were so buggy.

Windows Server is extremely stable. Sorry you had issues, but at my work, we run a ton of them and don't experience the kind of downtime you're speaking of.
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Windows Server stable ? Yes if you reboot the things from time to time. But I have not seen a windows server running uninterrupted for more then 1y. For some reason they seem to start degrading after a while.

Much better experience with some enterprise linux versions. Currently 3 machines running Oracle for almost 2 years without any intervention needed.

Or even one other. 3 very old sun machines (1998) which will be shut down within a month. One of them is already running for more then 5y without reboot. All three have still the same original disks and HW !!!! These things run almost continously full load and have never been shut down (cold) since operation.
Maybe we keep them running and see how long that they can survive :)
 
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