Thankfully there's no reason to think this is actually in the works. Just a throwaway news piece. But if it did happen, I am positive it would make overseas travel with the iPhone harder.
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Apple Developing Custom Built-In SIM Card for iPhone?
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The new technology has nothing to do with freedom. Apple simply approached the fact from the why-is-a-SIM-needed-at-all perspective. Having a SIM tray occupies a lot of space and having it built-in has MASSIVE consequences from an industrial design point of view.
SIM is not always portable. There a plenty of SIM locked phones out there too.
No. The core problem is that you don't have the right allocation of SIM card production. The retailers can be out of SIM card because the service provider didn't order enough while at the same time ordered too many pre-paid ones (that are shipped out to wide variety of mom-n-pop stores and places where don't have phones).
If the primary reason people are buying huge stacks of pre-paid cards is to move from country to country then solve that problem. The core problem in that case is flipping SIM IDs. This solution does exactly that.
And you don't need to keep and drag around a container full of SIM cards to do it.
All my SIM cards are the size of a fingernail. My container for them does not require dragging around. Exaggerating the inconvenience of carrying multiple SIMs doesn't convince anyone. All the people on this thread who actually DO carry around multiple SIMs seem to prefer that to this hypothetical favor Apple is trying to do us. What does that tell you? Maybe that SIM cards aren't as heavy or bulky as you think?
In the European Union, you can keep your number when switching networks (within a country). The numbers are ported to the new network.
You do get a new SIM card but when it's activated, it will have the same number. (Your old SIM card is deactivated, of course.)
Mobile Number Portability actually uses a central database to route the calls directly. Calls from abroad might use forwarding.
o2 Germany offers an plan where you pay 63,75 EUR for 5 GB data and unlimited calling/texting (except calls to foreign numbers and premium-rate numbers)…
Actually, that's not the whole story:
The calling and texting plan actually does come without a monthly fee but with a cap at 42,50 EUR. So they actually charge 0 EUR to 42,50 EUR, depending on usage.
The data plan for 21,25 EUR is on top of that. If you exceed 5 GB, you're throttled but not charged.
Up to three SIM cards (iPhone, iPad, ...) can share a single plan with no recurring fee.
I just ordered a micro SIM from o2. It is the third SIM on my plan.
You nearly got me there. I nearly missed the sarcasm.
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If apple was to do so, it would be announced along with at least ONE other thing, Apple hasn't had any announcements alone for at least a while, so I believe it woul be around the time of: iOS 4.2, new iPad, Mac App store, or nearing Mac OS X Lion. This would mean either in November/December, April/May, or June/July (summer), so that would mean not in Jan., Feb., or March.
If apple was to do so, it would be announced along with at least ONE other thing, Apple hasn't had any announcements alone for at least a while, so I believe it woul be around the time of: iOS 4.2, new iPad, Mac App store, or nearing Mac OS X Lion. This would mean either in November/December, April/May, or June/July (summer), so that would mean not in Jan., Feb., or March.
Then switch before get on the plane ( or hit the border on the train). You don't need your 3G data service while flying anyway. You bought the plane/train ticket before you hit the new country..... why can't you get the pre-paid ID ?
The blocker here would be for folks who want to hide getting the SIM cards with cash. Or the sale being blocked across borders.
That is how it works in the United States, but that is for moving from one carrier to another. When you do this, you cancel your plan with one company, start one with the next, If you have not completed your contract, you are automatically charged a penalty. This is a complex operation that has a high accounting cost. I am talking about something that could be used for causal transfers. Something like Google Voice would be great, but GV does not forward out of your country.
this kinda hampers the ability to use your iPhone abroad when other carriers don't support this feature. at least with the current iphone (not that it's good) you can do away with cutting up a regular sim card.
edit: I guess the best they they would do this is that you get the sim card from whichever carrier you want, then you have the ability to input the ICC-ID number (which is printed on the sim card) into your phone without physically inserting the sim. I don't know if you can actually use it like that
but this would be the most convenient way if they want to go simfree. but then again you can put in anyone's ICC-ID unless they ask for something like the PIN as well.
edit: I guess the best they they would do this is that you get the sim card from whichever carrier you want, then you have the ability to input the ICC-ID number (which is printed on the sim card) into your phone without physically inserting the sim. I don't know if you can actually use it like that
but this would be the most convenient way if they want to go simfree. but then again you can put in anyone's ICC-ID unless they ask for something like the PIN as well.People forget toothbrushes, hair brush , phone chargers , etc. all the time. That doesn't mean they are a burden to carry it just means they are just one more thing to put in the bag and bring with you. Almost any major hotel will have a store or these kinds of small items because people forget them all the time.
prefer .... versus what? It is only one option. ( leaving roaming off the table ). There is only one mechanism. Second there are folks who have dual-ID SIM cards. If primairly flipping back/forth between two country folks prefer a single card that allows them to flip (and only occassionally getting another card). Those folks don't prefer two cards.
This is only an extension of the two-ID solution to multiple IDs with single card.
No it tells me you are narrow mindedly fixated on the only solution that you know. My comments have absolutely nothing to do with bulk.
While you apparently get it, or most of it, it is very clear from many of the comments that the majority of people here do not.
Nearly half of them are complaining that they can't switch carriers when they travel within Europe, whereas they can now, as if there's some sort of design flaw that would prevent this from happening. I agree that it COULD happen that way, but it would be insane of Apple to do it (and involve billion-dollar class-action suits, losses of huge amounts of revenue, and so forth) so I think we can safely assume that that's not going to happen. Last I checked, Apple didn't do things that caused them to lose enormous amounts of money.
And several of the other arguments are equally clueless.
Your arguments are less easily dismissible, although it seems to me that keeping around a prepaid cell phone in case of emergencies is a lot more reliable and useful than keeping around a cell phone with an empty SIM slot. That way you can use it: 1) if you lose your iPhone. 2) If what goes wrong with your iPhone turns out to be the SIM card, which has happened to me twice now. 3) If you need to lend a phone to a friend and keep yours. 4) (If you get a Verizon pre-paid phone) it in places where your AT&T iPhone won't work, and vice versa.
Sounds like crap to me.
Scenario: I buy an iPhone outright - contract free.
I go abroad and want to switch sims for my vacation / extended stay. Unfortunately there are none of those customized SIMs available....?
I have to use my existing cell phone provider - which means rip off long distance charges?
Is this what is going to happen?
This scenario won't happen much in the u.s because they don't like to travel outside their borders, but the rest of the world / Europe - this is very common.
Scenario: I buy an iPhone outright - contract free.
I go abroad and want to switch sims for my vacation / extended stay. Unfortunately there are none of those customized SIMs available....?
I have to use my existing cell phone provider - which means rip off long distance charges?
Is this what is going to happen?
This scenario won't happen much in the u.s because they don't like to travel outside their borders, but the rest of the world / Europe - this is very common.
Ya think?
Really? You really think that Apple hates the literally millions of iPhones that were bought in once place and are used in another? That they would intentionally spike those sales just for... just... uh, what advantage would it buy them again? Especially since even in the US they're going off of carrier exclusivity soon? They LOVE you guys... hundreds of thousands of sales to people that they don't have to support, that the major carriers in other countries would LOVE to totally eliminate (and thus eliminate a good-sized chunk of Apple's profits) but which they can't.
Do you seriously think Apple is dumb enough to give up a HUGE chunk of their revenue for something that brings them no corresponding advantage?
If I were them, I'd include a dock with every iPhone with a little SIM slot, just so that there's an alternate way of getting that info into the phone. Fortunately, at least some of the people at Apple are smarter than me, so I expect to see a better answer than that to your problem, if and when this is actually implemented.
Look, I understand the temptation to hate Apple because of their desire for control. But they are still a business, they're still in this to make a profit, and assuming that they will do all they can to screw you when it's not in their best interests to do so? Don't you think that's just a bit much?
-fred
Really? You really think that Apple hates the literally millions of iPhones that were bought in once place and are used in another? That they would intentionally spike those sales just for... just... uh, what advantage would it buy them again? Especially since even in the US they're going off of carrier exclusivity soon? They LOVE you guys... hundreds of thousands of sales to people that they don't have to support, that the major carriers in other countries would LOVE to totally eliminate (and thus eliminate a good-sized chunk of Apple's profits) but which they can't.
Do you seriously think Apple is dumb enough to give up a HUGE chunk of their revenue for something that brings them no corresponding advantage?
If I were them, I'd include a dock with every iPhone with a little SIM slot, just so that there's an alternate way of getting that info into the phone. Fortunately, at least some of the people at Apple are smarter than me, so I expect to see a better answer than that to your problem, if and when this is actually implemented.
Look, I understand the temptation to hate Apple because of their desire for control. But they are still a business, they're still in this to make a profit, and assuming that they will do all they can to screw you when it's not in their best interests to do so? Don't you think that's just a bit much?
-fred
ok, maybe someone can straighten things out. i dont understand why people think this is a GOOD idea.
Here is why it is a bad idea: In my experience a SIM card is used for two things:
1. Transfer my phone information (ie contacts) to a new phone
2. Transfer local phone access to my current phone.
The first is less of a priority given cloud based information access for a lot of my stuff. But without internet or cell access (when I have a new phone), it is easier to transfer phone information/ID using a physical SIM than trying to get a carrier to do so over the air, which requires phone/internet access to tell the carrier and relies on the carrier to complete the task. Also, what if your phone breaks and you just have SIM you bum around to your friends phones? I've done that.
The second priority is simple enough now; get off a plane, find a shop, buy a SIM. Given Apple's new system, how would I reprogram a German phone in Japan anyways? I don't get reception there. I'd have to do it ahead of time, which is stupid (find a Japanese carrier in Germany online?), and if I forget, I have to go find a computer or internet access (in a foreign language). Its far easier just to walk into a store, point to your phone, give some cash, and get a prepaid SIM. And what if the carrier doesn't want me to transfer, for whatever reason, like a lack of corporate agreement? What if I want to swap SIMs in my phone so I can use one SIM for business and one for fun?
A remotely programmable SIM would essentially function the same as how CDMA networks work. Which is....not using a SIM card. This will not be a magic cloud SIM card that just swaps for you.
This idea is being proposed by Apple and cell carriers because its easier to lock people into phones and contracts if it is more difficult to transfer phone numbers and data between phones. The only way this would work is if it was a standard system, where your SIM card is a file that can be transferred over the air, on an SD card, bluetooth, or storing multiple SIMs you can load at will on one phone. I doubt this is what they are going for.
Here is why it is a bad idea: In my experience a SIM card is used for two things:
1. Transfer my phone information (ie contacts) to a new phone
2. Transfer local phone access to my current phone.
The first is less of a priority given cloud based information access for a lot of my stuff. But without internet or cell access (when I have a new phone), it is easier to transfer phone information/ID using a physical SIM than trying to get a carrier to do so over the air, which requires phone/internet access to tell the carrier and relies on the carrier to complete the task. Also, what if your phone breaks and you just have SIM you bum around to your friends phones? I've done that.
The second priority is simple enough now; get off a plane, find a shop, buy a SIM. Given Apple's new system, how would I reprogram a German phone in Japan anyways? I don't get reception there. I'd have to do it ahead of time, which is stupid (find a Japanese carrier in Germany online?), and if I forget, I have to go find a computer or internet access (in a foreign language). Its far easier just to walk into a store, point to your phone, give some cash, and get a prepaid SIM. And what if the carrier doesn't want me to transfer, for whatever reason, like a lack of corporate agreement? What if I want to swap SIMs in my phone so I can use one SIM for business and one for fun?
A remotely programmable SIM would essentially function the same as how CDMA networks work. Which is....not using a SIM card. This will not be a magic cloud SIM card that just swaps for you.
This idea is being proposed by Apple and cell carriers because its easier to lock people into phones and contracts if it is more difficult to transfer phone numbers and data between phones. The only way this would work is if it was a standard system, where your SIM card is a file that can be transferred over the air, on an SD card, bluetooth, or storing multiple SIMs you can load at will on one phone. I doubt this is what they are going for.
here here
+1
no it is terrible for the customer, right now apple can easily 'lock' the iphone using a computer so in your theoretical store all apple has to do is have a load of unlocked iphones and a load of network sim cards then just plug in the IMEI to the computer and that phone is then locked to the network.
this stupid concept will stop people swapping your sim out of your main iphone to use a cheap phone for a night out, so if you lost it you would only loose the crappy £10-20 phone and not your £500 iphone.
also you could never easily check another sim (not your main one) for messages in the iphone, you would have to use another phone.
some say there is a fine line between brilliance and stupidity, and if apple do this they are firmly in the relm of stupidity!!
This was supposed to make my life easier, wasn't it? Isn't that the way the proponents on this thread are couching it? Saving ME, the traveler, time and trouble? Well guess what? ME the traveler doesn't want to track down a HUNGARY SIM ID in the USA, I want to get a SIM card in Hungary when I arrive. How come no one seems to care that the people who actually would use this type of "advance" don't think it would help them?
Simple travel app:
You tell it where you are going, it tells you what phone plans/prepaid options are available there, you select a plan and the SIM data is downloaded to your phone immediately. When you get there, you simply select that carrier from a drop down list of carriers you have SIM data for (or the carrier is selected automatically by detecting its towers) and you're ready to go. Pretty simple...
You've made a lot of assumptions (all of them bad) to back up your position. That doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with your position, it just means you've never really given much thought to anything but the worst case scenario. A legacy SIM port would address all your concerns (real and imagined) anyway. It's way too early to write this off.
the space it takes up is negligible at best. Sim slots on all phones I have seen are shoved in a random dead air space on the phone any how so not an issue in saving space.
Sim cards are really nothing more than something to store a string of numbers that the cell carriers use to id your phone.
I like Sim cards because I can switch phones on the fly. I often times will pull the sim out of my BB and put it in my old flip phone if I am going to be going into an enviroment where damage can easily happen like when I go mountain biking. More than once my spare phone has gone flying, dropped in the mud ect. I really do not care because it is my spare phone. If it breaks I have 2-3 others I can use but my current spare is a tank.
When I go skiing or snowboarding in the future my blackberry will stay at the hotel/in the car and I will pull the sim and take it the junk phone for the slops because if I crash hard on it big deal broke a junk phone. Loose it. Minor problem. Not like I lost my main phone.
You can not do any of that with what Apple is pushing.
Hell the activation problems every year around the iPhone I put the blame 100% fault on Apple because they do not allow the old sim card to be reused and therefore are spiking that database to high even with all the new activation.
If this comes to be, it will be one more reason to get an Android (in addition to Flash).
Its main purpose is to prevent you from using local pre-paid cards when you travel, and to force you instead to pay roaming charges and out of network fees to your original carrier.
Its main purpose is to prevent you from using local pre-paid cards when you travel, and to force you instead to pay roaming charges and out of network fees to your original carrier.
So if this is true, you can only 'transfer' your phone to an Apple approved carrier? That is just stupid, do people actually think that is a positive? Right now, I have a factory unlocked iPhone 4. I can stick a GSM sim from any carrier around the world into it and it will work. Hence the Global Standard for Mobile Communications... We don't need apple to add some kind of proprietary layer to this. If they do, I'm going to Android or Windows Phone 7.
How do you do this when you're in another country without roaming ?
I'm confused as to how the 30 second job of swapping a SIM card is any more of a hassle than spending 5 minutes on the phone (assuming you can make the call at all) getting them to switch something "in the cloud" that has a non-trivial chance of taking minutes, hours, or possibly even days (depending on how remote a location you're in) to take effect.
That's before even getting into how this can (and most certainly will) be used to lock phones to providers. It's just not going to fly in countries that have regulation in place to ensure consumer freedom of choice.
Just a note: In the USA, I switch CDMA phones often, and it takes less than two minutes. Just call the special *** activation number, enter my phone number and secret PIN, then listen to music while it gets programmed.
No pulling off phone backs to get to a SIM under the battery like most phones, or worry about messing it up, or anything.
Apple's activation could be made just as simple, I think. However, for back compatabiliy we might still want a regular SIM to be included with the sale, just for popping into a spare phone.