Apple Developing Custom Built-In SIM Card for iPhone?

[Minority_taxi]

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Sounds great to me! Extra security! As soon as you phone is stolen the carrier can disable it

 

[boss.king]

2 main problems I have with this:
1) Sometimes my battery dies and I can't get to a charger. Usually I just put my sim into my HD2, but with this I'd be screwed. Maybe if I could have a Sim card using the same account/number as my iPhone would use this would be ok, but I really can't see that happening.
2) I travel to countries that don't offer the iPhone yet, or even have an Apple Store (Namibia). What do I do then?

1 possible benefit (mentioned earlier) is that if my phone got stolen, the thief would not really be able to turn it on without it becoming traceable.

On the whole, unless they implement this really well I think it might put a lot of people off buying a new phone until a decent hack/workaround is released.

 

[deconstruct60]

This may be very interesting if it happens. I see lots of hacks developing...

It will never happen if this is a straightforward hackable system. The reprogramming of the chip better be seriously hard to do with proper keys and ciphers from the vendor.

Something along the lines of the reprogrammed data has to be sent to the chip in encrypted text by the private key of the chip vendor. Internally to the chip it is decrypted by the public key and the data inserted into the flash area.

There would be no universal private key in the chip. Nor would you be able to put clear text data onto the chip even if had physical access to it.

If it doesn't have that...... I extremely doubt it would pass muster with any phone carriers security evaluation team. They would not accept hardware like that onto their network. And they will tell Apple that. Note that Apple has to sell the phones to the carriers before they can sell them to users. If the carriers won't buy them Apple is in deep manure. That is who their largest customers are.

 

[paradox00]

But from the description of the article (and the article itself) this is not a built in SIM card. The better description is that it is a reprogrammable SIM card.

For whatever reason this seems to be a very difficult concept for people to grasp.

 

[Gizmotoy]

most people i know travel a lot and just pay the 599€ straight-up. its much less expensive in the long term.

It's a different situation in Europe. Those in the US, such as the user you're replying to, have cell phone service that costs the same amount whether you have a contract with a subsidized phone or not. There is no incentive to buy a phone outright for cheaper service prices like there are in some other parts of the world.

It doesn't make any sense, I agree, but that's the stupid situation we're stuck in. I imagine it's because the average American can't figure out that higher upfront cost + cheaper service is actually cheaper than subsidized cost + expensive service over the coarse of a contract. To make it simple, they only offer it one way. That, or the cell phone companies act as a single entity and are greedy.

We know the latter is true, but I suspect it's a little of both.

 

[redkamel]

I'm really liking the sound of this. One-rumor-step closer to a multi-carrier iPhone.

uh...the iphone can already be multicarrier, they just have to support it. In fact, this is one step FURTHER from a multicarrier phone. As it is now, put in your SIM, jailbreak, and you are done. With this SIM chip, you will have to flash the SIM inside the iphone rather than just using an already existing SIM available at any store.

 

[redkamel]

For whatever reason this seems to be a very difficult concept for people to grasp.

"that will be integrated into the iPhone itself"

sounds like it is built in. Also, if it only works in an iphone, then it won't work in other phones, and other phones SIMS wont work eother. So its either actually built in, or essentially built in, unless you go iphone to iphone

 

[valkraider]

For whatever reason this seems to be a very difficult concept for people to grasp.

No - I think people get it.

The problem is that little plastic physical SIMs are *portable*. This dynamic software system is not.

How do I use a different phone with my SIM if my SIM only exists in software on the iPhone? How does someone come over to my house with a SIM but no Apple or iTunes accounts, and use my iPhone? What happens if my iPhone falls out of my pocket and breaks but I have another phone I could use in a pinch?

The dynamic SIM part is pretty cool - but still defeats the purpose of a single small piece of plastic which I can move from phone to phone in an impromptu fashion - for whatever reason.

What this seems more like is blending a little bit of the CDMA and GSM worlds. CDMA phones don't have SIM cards so to swap and share phones you have to call a provider like Verizon and Sprint... But CDMA phones keep all of their
provisioning dynamically stored in the phone, and it is overwritable.

 

[Brien]

Seems to me having a hybrid GSM/CDMA chip and moving the SIM chip on-board would save quite a bit of space in the next iPhone. Assuming it keeps the same external design as the iPhone 4, this means, more likely, more battery life. Awesome.

 

[netnothing]

From Techcrunch

Interesting.......http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/27/iphone-sim-cards/

-Kevin

 

[SandynJosh]

But if there is a way to keep two or more SIM profiles saved somewhere on the phone and switch between them easily, then it will be a very good idea and make switching "virtual SIM"s much easier

That's the way I read the article.

I can also see this useful for large company issued iPhones where one person inherits the old phone and gets a new ID in the phone, or a phone breaks and they need to roll an old user to a new handset. The changes can be done internally in the IT department.

If, as the article indicates, this can be done without involving the carrier, you have improved the iPhone for enterprise users.

Additionally, this can aid in updating from one phone to the next and "zeroing" out the old phone so you can sell it on eBay, sim included.

A lot of you need to "lighten up" when these rumors come out. We only know a tiny bit about the changes and from the comments it seems of many of you are ready to cut and run. Remember this is only a rumor, we have no idea of how this fits into the future user experience.

 

[theOtherGeoff]

Hmmm.....so let me get this straight:

I am supposed to believe that Steve Jobs and a myriad of wireless communications companies are going to engage in a massive conspiracy designed to give the consumer more freedom over how they use their own products and services?

Steve Jobs and cell phone service companies don't exactly have a great track record when it comes to giving consumers control over their own property. I will believe this one when I see it.

'more freedom' no.
'more flexibility to sell to you' yes.

most consumers don't want to control their own property... they want their phone to work. now. I for one want to walk into an apple store and buy a phone with in 15 minutes (done that twice... I've never spent less than an hour buying a phone at ATT/Sprint/RadioShack). for apple that's more 'turns,' for me that amazing customer experience.

If I were in Europe or when the U.S. iphones are multi-network, I don't want to go in and see a stack of iphones that are for 'the worst' network in that locale and be told 'sorry, the BupkissNet iPhone (or it's SIM) is sold out' Best to get an iPhone, program it on the sales floor, and sell it to me.

This is why it's best for the customer.

 

[Ferry888]

Not good.

I live in Germany and I use my phone often abroad, I have different sim cards for when I am in Hong Kong or China. It's much cheaper then using a local operator then pay the high roaming prices.
The world is not ready for this yet unless you have network providers who can give you a worldwide flatrate.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Would this mean that

a) your phone would be pretty much locked to an Apple blessed carrier?

or

b) You could be w/ Carrier A in the U.S. but when you travel overseas you could prepay w/ a local carrier in the country you are visiting vs. paying out the nose for international roaming?

If A -- that could be a deal killer for me. If B -- I'd be even more in love w/ my phone.

 

[deconstruct60]

Won't fly in EU due to legislation. If you buy SIM free iPhone you have to be able to use it with every service provider. So is Apple going to have every single carriers data stored with in iPhone?

No. Not stored on the phone. The different SIM ID and subscriber info could be held in the cloud (as a service you'd likely have to pay Gemalto a small fee for). The phone would only get the single version that it needed at that time.

However, if Gemalto had a back-end SIM ID provisioing agreement with all the carriers in a country it would work. At that point perfectly in compliance with the law. Since Gemalto can deploy a SIM ID on all relevant carriers the phone is portable. This is a Dutch company so I' suspect they are very familiar with the issue. As one of the larger SIM card makers I'm pretty sure had to deal with these legal issues and are hooked into at least part of the SIM ID assignment logistics already.

The problem for Gemalto is that they need to get broad acceptance from all the carriers in highly populated areas for this to work. If they can pick up Apple as a partner that will increase the areas where can get all the carriers in an area to buy in. If Apple , RIM , and Nokia didn't buy into this ... then yeah it would be in trouble because doubt many of the carriers would buy into it too.

 

[hachre]

Awesome

 

[lizardliquer]

@ bghoward,

That sounds cool, I don't know how it would work. The phone number is attached to the network. When your phone swapped from ATT to Verizon, your phone number would change.

They might be able to do something with forwarding, I would think it would cause ring lag.

Whoa a minute bucko, I moved from Verizon to ATT and kept the phone number. I see a roam charge out for usage from your (mine is ATT) to another carrier. Or thru itunes changing the carrier. If I shop at Macy's and then shop at Home Depot, I just sign in and pay with ???? Paypal, BuddaBoom, foget about it.
done

 

[jamied95]

So what happens when you send your phone in for repair, and you remove your sim and use it in another phone to keep it safe and still be able to work, ey?

 

[Le Big Mac]

we don't know anything about this. It could allow the phone to be on multiple networks at the same time (or have a priority order). Or it could be apple's method of lock-in/control... not enough data.

Exactly. The concept would be an improvement. No need to obtain a physical SIM, so I can get the ROM-flash SIM from any carrier. How cool would it be before a trip to head to the App Store to "load" a SIM for the countries you're headed to, knowing the rates in advance, as well as your local number, and then be able to swap to another "SIM" when you go from France to Germany?

Of course, this is Apple, so I don't expect it to work that way at all. Instead it will be used as a further backstop to prevent unlocking by prohibiting some (most) carriers from using the AppStore to provide access and imposing an Apple/AT&T tax on their use.

What happened to the original iPhone that was unlocked and intended to be used with flexibility?

 

[ImperialX]

This is not good at all. No more unlocking?

 

[Mclovinirish]

There's nothing to say that this built in sim approach won't have the ability to act as a dual sim. It's just a chip with storage capabilities after all. I'm sure if apple don't supply a dual sim feature whereby it can store two sets of carrier info. Then some clever person will develop something along those lines in the jailbreak community.

But this is here say at the moment. Would people still be dead set against this idea if it had a duel sim capability?

 

[Bubba Satori]

Wow, what a surprise. Who saw this coming?

 

[Porco]

Terrible idea.

 

[deconstruct60]

No - I think people get it.

The problem is that little plastic physical SIMs are *portable*. This dynamic software system is not.

Actually it is (or can be)

What happens if my iPhone falls out of my pocket and breaks but I have another phone I could use in a pinch?

The dynamic SIM part is pretty cool - but still defeats the purpose of a single small piece of plastic which I can move from phone to phone in an impromptu fashion - for whatever reason.

Conceptually if the other phone also has an modifiable via software SIM you could login to the service over internet, update with new IMEI entry with SIM ID , and download SIM ID to new phone. A few more steps than clicking cards, but it works.

It is not portability you are arguing against it is deployed standard format and physical implementation. If SIM ID has to be backward compatible with all phones from 6 years ago it will never move forward.

Physically, the micro-SIM of the iPhone4 isn't immediately compatible with those old phones either. It is almost as disconnected in physical compatibility as this new system is. ( although I guess there is a wrapper can put around smaller version to jam it into larger card slot. )

What this seems more like is blending a little bit of the CDMA and GSM worlds. CDMA phones don't have SIM cards so to swap and share phones you have to call a provider like Verizon and Sprint... But CDMA phones keep all of their
provisioning dynamically stored in the phone, and it is overwritable.

Not really. It could be done as a service that is independent from the carriers. What this seems much more to be is trying to pull back from assigning millions of SIM ID numbers to cards that aren't used.

What happens with lots of SIM cards is that the numbers are pre provisioned at least in the cards, if not also on the carriers networks (e.g, rip from package and plug in pre-paid.).

 

[paradox00]

No - I think people get it.

The problem is that little plastic physical SIMs are *portable*. This dynamic software system is not.

Then why was the first page full of people complaining that it would be impossible to switch carriers without a removable SIM card?

Edit, case in point:

I live in Germany and I use my phone often abroad, I have different sim cards for when I am in Hong Kong or China. It's much cheaper then using a local operator then pay the high roaming prices.
The world is not ready for this yet unless you have network providers who can give you a worldwide flatrate.

And that's from the 4th page.

@ Ferry888: The whole point of the system is to allow you to change carriers without hunting down a SIM card.