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Thats not really the point. The only inhibitions keeping Snow Leopard from installing on my pc are completely artificial. I dont expect apple to support SL on the cell cpu, ppc, or anything other than the cpu arch they so choose, but the only reason it doesnt install on my pc is because apple put in a synthetic restriction to kill compatibility for the sole reason of forcing me to buy their overpriced hardware and contribute to their record quarterly profit.

What you are asking is similar to the BS argument "360 games cant play on my ps3! OMG IS THE SAME THING." But its not the same thing. 360 games cant physically run on a ps3. The processor has no idea how to handle the instructions in the 360 game's binaries. However, my core2quad can run the osx kernel just fine with 0 modifications. The only reason it doest work is because apple added a few lines of code that arent essential to the function of the OS.

But. It is the same in Windows world. So don't think Apple is less evil than Microsoft.

If you buy a Dell with an Windows 7 OEM license, you only can install that Windows in that Dell that you bought. Not even in another Dell exactly the same model.

It is different with a Windows 7 Retail license. But guess what? A Windows 7 Retail license is at least 10 times more expensive than the OEM license (At least for the hardware manufaturer).

This is called "tying" and it has questionable legality, particularly in European Union countries. If an EULA contains illegal clauses such as this, it makes it legally invalid.

That's not true. Windows OEM licenses are tied to hardware even in EU.
 
I don't want to flame you, but I do have a reason I called it piracy, and I'm not talking about violating the EULA.

I called it piracy because, from Apple's perspective, you are taking money out of their pocket when you buy a netbook and put OS X on it rather than buying an Apple computer -- whether you pay for your copy of OS X or not.

You can call things whatever you want, but your labeling things doesn't make them so. I guess by your logic, me buying a copy of Windows 7 is "piracy" too, because from Apple's perspective they just lost a sale of OS X.

Get this into your heads people - piracy and violating the EULA are not the same thing, not even close.
 
And why on Earth should Apple "support" something that is illegal in the first place? Do Atoms exist on Macs? NO. Can OS X legally run on anything else than Macs? NO.

Whoever defends this is a moron or, at the very least, acts in bad faith as the rest of the freeriding pirates out there.

WELL DONE, Apple.

Blame Apple mate, had they not jumped to Intel this would not be an issue. Is it the Hackintosh community fault that OS X runs on those cheap ass notebooks?

And if they bought thier copy of OS X? They still pirating?

How can you call someone who runs OS X on an i7 for a fraction of the cost via a hackintosh a moron? Seems like value for money.
 
As for the netbook market, Apple missed nothing. They completely crushed the notion of missing anything about it. Apple bypassed the entire netbook market and no one even cared. What did consumers do? Hand them more record quarters. In a recession.

So much for netbooks.

Mini-Laptop-vs-Laptop-YOY-Sales-Aug-09.png


atoms kinda suck anyways, the AMD Neo kicks the atom in the butt. 64bit and all.
 
You can call things whatever you want, but your labeling things doesn't make them so. I guess by your logic, me buying a copy of Windows 7 is "piracy" too, because from Apple's perspective they just lost a sale of OS X.

Get this into your heads people - piracy and violating the EULA are not the same thing, not even close.

You might be right, except for one thing:

In order to install and use Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware, you have to violate DRM protection. This protection is achieved through the SMC chip that only Mac hardware has. The SMC chip has encryption keys.

All the Hackintoshes in order to function have to violate the encryption keys. All of them. So you are violating the Millenium Copyright. The protection is similar to what a DVD has. So, in those terms, you are pirating. Not because you broke an EULA, but because you circumvent piracy protection.
 
... . .. .

Blame Apple mate, had they not jumped to Intel this would not be an issue. Is it the Hackintosh community fault that OS X runs on those cheap ass notebooks?

Blame convenience stores opening. Had they not been built their robbery would not be an issue. Are convenience store owners at fault because they are prey to robbery?

And if they bought thier copy of OS X? They still pirating?

No, but they're violating their contractual relationship with Apple, which makes certain remedies available to Apple.

How can you call someone who runs OS X on an i7 for a fraction of the cost via a hackintosh a moron? Seems like value for money.

They're not morons for running OS X on unauthorized hardware. They ARE something else, however, when trying to convince everyone their actions are perfectly legiitmate.
 
Originally Posted by maknik
I think a lot of people here don't understand the law very well. Just because Apple says something is the case doesn't make it the case. Otherwise they could just write whatever the hell they wanted on that little print and people would be bound to, say, give their first child to Apple. Why can't they write that? Not (just) because people wouldn't buy the software, but because you can't put that sort of thing in a contract -- can't in the sense that, a lawsuit would contest it and a judge would strike it down. What if Apple put it in right now; there would certainly be a period before a lawsuit -- does Apple own your first child during that period? Of course not: until it has been actually tested in court, a contract with novel characteristics exists in a bit of a legal limbo, not really validated as law. That is how EULA's currently exist in the US. But they have been tested in Europe -- and mostly found wanting. Thus the question of presumption -- what do you presume to be the case prior to the contract being tested in court -- is arguably that those EULA "contracts" are invalid until proven (in court) otherwise. At the very least, simply citing Apple's EULA claims in no way proves that those claims are legal.

To summarize: EULA is not yet law! Not only is buying and installing your OS in a hackintosh not theft, not piracy, and harmless (except to Apple's business interests), it's not even a misdemeanor crime. So far, legally, it's nothing. Even if it were found to be illegal, my personal belief in private property trumps my allegiance to Apple's business interests, so I would defend breaking the EULA -- but luckily, there's nothing yet to break.

(Incidentally, there is a bit of nuance to this: Apple's claims would be much stronger if, like corporations do with Sun or MS, you explicitly signed a contract to license software. That's fairly kosher. So it's not that software can't be licensed per se. Rather, it's the "EU" part of EULA that's at issue -- that consumers are bound by whatever the corporation puts into the fine print merely by having bought the software. That's the part that's iffy and was struck down in Europe. And reasonably so: by that logic, everything we buy could have EULA's attached to it, specifying whatever, say, Target wanted about when and where we could wear their clothes. Perhaps that would be defensible if it was just Target -- but imagine if all clothing manufacturers did it. Agree to their contracts, or go naked... EULA's are very bad ideas.)

You can break a contract and not be thrown in jail, however you could be sued for breaking that contract.

Sure. So what? The point is, a new contract category -- such as the EULA -- needs to be tested in court to become established law. Apple *can* sue you, but the reason they won't is that they don't want to have a court strike down the EULA more generally. Regardless of whether it's a civil suit or criminal proceedings, a law hasn't been tested until it's had its day in court. EULA's haven't been tested in the US, and where they have been tested, they've often been found wanting. A big reason they haven't been tested in the US is that the would-be litigants -- such as Apple -- have good reason to think they won't pass muster. Witness the elaborate shenanigans in the Psystar case as Apple attempts to avoid basing their attacks on the EULA itself.
 
Mini-Laptop-vs-Laptop-YOY-Sales-Aug-09.png


atoms kinda suck anyways, the AMD Neo kicks the atom in the butt. 64bit and all.

Yes, netbooks are popular. So are Macbooks. Why does Apple need to enter the netbook market when people in a recession are buying *more* Macs at *higher* prices?? So they can ruin their margins? On the sole basis of demand existing for netbooks? So what. There's also a demand for cheap PCs (laptop hunters), but Apple chose not to play that game and ended up enjoying record sales. In a recesssion. So because a certain segment of the market wants something, Apple is REQUIRED to address it? That's insane. Let someone else address it (and lose money doing so.)
 
Apple may start calling a duck a duck, that MacOS X is sold as an UPGRADE, and set a price for the full retail version of the OS to be installed on a handful of approved hw, if the cloners ever have it their way through the courts.

I'd say that if 2nd-best Windows Ultimate (according to PC sites) commands a list price of 319.99, then first of class MacOS X "ultimate" could easily be justified at 349 to 399 per copy.

So keep pushing, your wishes may actually come true.
 
Sure. So what? The point is, a new contract category -- such as the EULA -- needs to be tested in court to become established law. Apple *can* sue you, but the reason they won't is that they don't want to have a court strike down the EULA more generally. Regardless of whether it's a civil suit or criminal proceedings, a law hasn't been tested until it's had its day in court. EULA's haven't been tested in the US, and where they have been tested, they've often been found wanting. A big reason they haven't been tested in the US is that the would-be litigants -- such as Apple -- have good reason to think they won't pass muster. Witness the elaborate shenanigans in the Psystar case as Apple attempts to avoid basing their attacks on the EULA itself.

Contracts aren't law. But your violation of a contract puts you at risk for legal remedies that can be applied against you. You agree to something (such as clicking "agree") or sign something that amounts to a contract (which an EULA is) and you violate the terms of the contract, you're open to legal action. That's it. The manufacturer can file a claim against you and the contract can be tested in court.

Your ageement to a contract, however, already puts you in a position in which you were reasonable aware of the terms of the contract.

If you do not agree to the terms, Apple's EULA specifically tells you to click "disagree" and not use the product.

So we're talking about someone who is willing to break a contract after agreeing to its terms. Draw your own conclusions.
 
Unfortunately, you can't do whatever you want when you buy software. You know that whole EULA thing. Right or wrong you don't really own the software...

I'd like to see someone try to stop me. I'm not selling anything. It's also not illegal to violate software terms. It is illegal, however, to use software that you didn't pay for.

Then do what you want. Nobody is coming to your house to shut down your Hackintosh or stop you from doing whatever it is you're doing that the government doesn't approve of.

You can't blame a company for doing what's in its best interest.

Exactly. I don't blame Apple for changing their software. They can do whatever the hell they want with their software. They own the code. But I disagree with the notion that even if their software supports a certain processor, they tell me that I can't use it with a system that is hardware identical but doesn't have an Apple logo on it. If they don't want me to use it that way, then they shouldn't sell it to me. Why haven't they stopped selling it to me? The blame lies with them if they don't want their software installed on a certain system and yet keep selling it. Nobody has proved software terms to be a legally binding contract. If it becomes illegal to violate software terms, then I will follow the law.

I'm with you there. And I doubt that Apple's EULA is legal - at least not in Europe.

This is my point exactly.

Apple makes money on their hardware, not their software. OSX is just an incentive to buy Apple hardware, which is why they don't let you run it on non-apple machines.

If apple allowed OSX to run on other hardware, they wouldn't make any money. They practically give the OS away.

While what you're doing is technically not "piracy", you *are* in breach of the EULA that you agreed to when you installed the software. If you don't agree with Apple's methods, then don't use their software.

Apple are the ones who invested all their time and money in creating this software, and they can do whatever they want with it, regardless of how "evil" you think it is. Your freedom comes in your choice of whether or not you use it. It doesn't mean you can violate the EULA.

My original comment was directed to the person who said that building a hackintosh with a legally purchased license was piracy. Apple can change their software all they want. I never said anything about Apple, or what they're doing, being "evil." Again, they own the source code. I don't have to update my copy. And again, I can violate the hell out of their terms if I want to. It is currently not a legally binding contract, and I'm not selling anything.

This is one of the main reasons Apple should have NEVER switched to the Intel platform.

And a testament to the fact that MacRumors is becoming an arm of the hackintosh community.

1.) The Intel platform is superior in terms of capability, compatibility and marketing a brand name to consumers

2.) What is the problem, exactly, with Macrumors members forming a branch of the hackintosh community? There are many discussions on this in the forums and especially for jailbreaking the iPhone, which violates all kinds of terms and yet Steve Wozniak does it. Again, not illegal.

You obviously care or you wouldn't have replied as you did. On the same note, if you pay for the software, there is no reason you cannot install it wherever you see fit. Apple will eventually lose those battles too.

I DO care about this issue. But I don't care if people flame me for hating on Apple or something ridiculous. I love Apple and own many Apple products. The only reason I'm responding now is because people seem to be confused about my position. I'm also not responding to flames. I do what I want, within the rule of law.

So are you saying if you buy one license of WIn SERVER you should be able to install it as many machines as you want?

What does that even have to do with anything that I said? I'll assume you used Windows as an example because you think that because I simply disagree with Apple over their software terms that I am a Windows fan. This could not be further from the truth. If I go buy a license for Leopard, and install it on my wife's Dell, and say, buy another license, and install it on computer X, and buy another license, and install it on computer Y, and so on, then that is not piracy. I am not installing multiple copies of Leopard from a single disc / license. I am not selling any computers.

As a matter of fact, I haven't even installed anything yet onto any computers, aside from upgrading my MBP to Snow Leopard. As Apple has been studying Google Voice (indefinitely?), I am also studying the possibility of the hackintosh as an upgrade to my wife's aging Dell laptop which has expired security software and is becoming increasingly less stable. So far I am not yet convinced, but I do have the freedom to purchase it and install it if that is what I end up deciding to do. The only way that would not happen is if Apple stopped selling the software, or if there was actually a law that states that you can't violate a company's arbitrary software terms.

Consider this (people will probably say this is a bad analogy but get over it): A computer is hardware, and it runs using software. Cars are hardware, and run using computers running software. Let's say that GM makes a new car called the Californian. After you buy the car, it comes up with a message box on the center console stating that you're only allowed to drive this car in California, even though it drives fine on roads in other states and countries. You have to agree to these terms if you want to drive the car. Do you honestly think that anyone would follow these terms? Of course not. Do you think that any court would rule in favor of GM if they starting suing people who drive to Las Vegas for the weekend? Of course not. I don't see how this is any different, except that if Apple made this car, they would use a GPS to determine if they were still in California and if not, remotely disable the car. The way I understand it is that the hackintosh community removes the GPS to check whether or not the car is still in California. That's all.

If people pirate, then the law will deal with them. If the law isn't strong enough to deal with them, or if Apple doesn't put in enough protections to determine if they're using illegal copies, then that's their own fault. As for me, anything I attempt will not break any laws, because I would buy the software for personal use. Does anyone still think that is not reasonable? I like to think I'm a pretty fair, reasonable guy. Apple can do what they want, but as long as what they're doing allows me to do something that they don't want me to do, and as long as it isn't against the law, then I don't see what the problem is.

Clear? Or am I still talking at close-minded walls of fanaticism?
 
And if i dont agree to your EULA then i dont have to buy it,

Try to convince me that the Caribou Coffee provision will stop you from buying the book even though you LOVED my first five books. And presume you live 100 miles from the nearest Caribou and you're allergic to coffee.

The point is that the Caribou Coffee provision is ridiculous. It puts irrelevant stipulations on the use of my work. Such stipulations DO NOT BELONG in EULAs and should be fervently ignored

much like if i dont want to pay $4.00 a gallon for gas i don't have to.

No, that's a completely different story. That's called "inability to afford." Can I afford gas? Yes or no. If yes, then I can acquire and use said gas. If no, then I cannot acquire and use said gas.

Using OS X on third party hardware has nothing to do with affording OS X.

Can I afford OS X? Yes, therefore I can acquire OS X, but can I use it? No, not yet, because OS X allegedly comes with other stipulations which have no effect on the content or performance of OS X. Ridiculous.

No one forces you to purchase a Mac nor OSX so frankly if you don't like the terms of the agreement, dont buy OSX or a Mac. It's that simple.

And no one forced you to buy my stand mixer - after all, it's just a tool, like OS X - but the EULA says OS X can only be used on Macintosh hardware, and my stand mixer EULA says you can only use it to mix Clive-brand cake mix.

Again, I challenge you to convince me you will not break my Clive-brand cake mix EULA even though I sell the best damn stand mixer on the market.

Frankly im tired of people feeling its ok to break the rules because they dont like them, if you dont like the terms of using OSX, use Windows, use linux, go purchase a Dell/HP/Acer.

It's not a matter of not liking the rules. When the rules are unethical, it is unethical to enforce them. Do you understand the difference between illegal and unethical?

money lost to people pirating iLife is pennies compared to the amount of money they make up in the hardware/software combo.

That doesn't make pirating iLife or any other software okay. Have you not been listening to anything I've been saying?

Think of it this way, Apple makes X number of dollars in profit from selling a Mac with OSX,

Allow a user to install on a regular pc you lose the hardware/software profit margins, and you also lose a great chunk in profit on software alone when most people will pirate it anyway. Consider how much Microsoft would make on Windows 7 sales if only licensed to the end user versus their current combo of PC manufacturer/End User licensing.

The flaws of Apple's business model is strictly their own fault. Companies subsidize the prices of things all the time. When they do so, they are taking a risk. They are assuming that users will buy both products A and B. When a user purchases a subsidized product and not the subsidizing product, that is a flaw in the business model, not the consumer who purchased the subsidized product.

Forcefully linking product A to unrelated product B is known as anti-competitive Tying. In anti-trust cases, it is a SERIOUS, punishable act.

Our legal system recognizes the unethicalmity of Tying but chooses not to enforce it on non-monopolies. Does that make it right for Apple to do so via their EULA?

If I wrote a legal contract that stated you had to surrender your first-born child if you wanted to read my book, would it be valid? It violates YOUR RIGHTS. Would you even take it seriously?

A contract - even a legal one - that violates your rights is unethical, and cannot and should not be enforced.

Oh and if we would like to be more specific, if you would be interested in beachfront property along the coastal united states in UTAH, i can sell you that too.

I think you're looking for "Oceanfront Property in Arizona" the title of a song by George Strait.

There's a difference, however, between gullibility and complacency.

I know my rights. I know I am not damaging the Apple brand by installing OS X on third party hardware. I know I am paying the sticker price for the hardware and software in question. What I do with it is my own business, so long as I don't infringe on someone else's rights.

-Clive
 
In order to install and use Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware, you have to violate DRM protection.

Wrong.

This protection is achieved through the SMC chip that only Mac hardware has. The SMC chip has encryption keys.

Wrong.

All the Hackintoshes in order to function have to violate the encryption keys. All of them.

Wrong.

So you are violating the Millenium Copyright.

Wrong. (WTF)

The protection is similar to what a DVD has. So, in those terms, you are pirating. Not because you broke an EULA, but because you circumvent piracy protection.

Wrong.
 
Apple may start calling a duck a duck, that MacOS X is sold as an UPGRADE, and set a price for the full retail version of the OS to be installed on a handful of approved hw, if the cloners ever have it their way through the courts.

I'd say that if 2nd-best Windows Ultimate (according to PC sites) commands a list price of 319.99, then first of class MacOS X "ultimate" could easily be justified at 349 to 399 per copy.

So keep pushing, your wishes may actually come true.

I can tell you intended that last sentence to be taken sarcastically.

But speaking as a potential Hackintosher who hasn't quite made the commitment to try it out yet, I can honestly say that sounds like a reasonable, attractive price point. And a fair compromise, if it would protect me against Apple's legal protestations.
 
A few things to comment on.

  1. As was mentioned very early in this thread, buying and installing OS/X on a net book is not piracy.
  2. Apples legal rights with respect to the OS/X disk are limited. It is very doubtful that Apple will have a clean sweep with all points on contention. See the recent ruling against Autodesk for one. Or a slightly older one brought against a radio station for reselling CDs.
  3. There could be a number of reasons for the removal of ATOM support that have nothing to do with Hackentoshes. For one ATOMs in order execution method means that optimizations made for Intels mainstream CPUs won't work. In some cases optimizations for Core processor have an extremely negative impact on ATOM performance.
  4. Along the same lines this isn't any different than removing support for 486 or PPC processors that are no longer current technology that you are targetting. It is an issue of code maintenance. This could simply be a code clean up made buy a programmer trying to keep the code base readable.
  5. As nice as ATOM is powerwise, it is significantly different from Intels mainstream processors, likewise ARM. If your focus is now ARM then you need to add all the required changes to your current code base.
  6. Not every move made by Apple is done with evil intent. Unless documentation can be found to indicate otherwise it is hard to blame Apple for the removal of code supporting hardware that was never shipped. From Apples standpoint it is a liability they don't need.
  7. If cheap is your goal then run Linux on your netbook!! Really if cheap is what you are all about then Linux is your only choice. That is not to dis Linux, I run it my self, but does reflect on it's free nature.

Frankly I'm not sure how this ever became news! Netbooks are something Apple doesn't have to worry about in their code base anymore, with no sanctioned products this move impacts no one.


Dave
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickwrap

------------------------

A clickwrap agreement (also known as a "clickthrough" agreement or clickwrap license) is a common type of agreement (often used in connection with software licenses). Such forms of agreement are mostly found on the Internet, as part of the installation process of many software packages, or in other circumstances where agreement is sought using electronic media. The name "clickwrap" came from the use of "shrink wrap contracts" commonly used in boxed software purchases, which "contain a notice that by tearing open the shrinkwrap, the user assents to the software terms enclosed within".

Click-wrap is the electronic equivalent of the shrink-wrap method which allows users to read the terms of the agreement before accepting them. The click-wrap method was presented to the court in ProCD v. Zeidenberg, 86 F.3d 1447 (7th Cir. 1996), where Zeidenberg purchased a CD-ROM, created by ProCD, which contained a compilation of a telephone directory database. Upon purchase of this CD-ROM, Zeidenberg installed the software onto his computer then created a website which offered to visitors the information contained on the CD-ROM at a price less than what ProCD charged for the software.

Prior to his purchase of the software, Zeidenberg may not have been aware of any prohibited use or dissemination of the product without consent by ProCD. However, upon preparing to install the software onto his computer, the software license appeared on his computer screen and would not allow him to continue with the installation without indicating acceptance by clicking his assent in a dialog box.

The court held that Zeidenberg did accept the offer and the terms contained within the license by clicking through the dialog box. Zeidenberg had the opportunity to read the terms of the license prior to clicking the acceptance box. The court further stated that Zeidenberg could have rejected the terms of the contract and returned the software. (Id.).

The content and form of clickwrap agreements vary widely. Most clickwrap agreements require the end user to manifest his or her assent by clicking an "ok" or "agree" button on a dialog box or pop-up window. A user indicates rejection by clicking cancel or closing the window. Upon rejection, the user can no longer use or purchase the product or service. Classically, such a take-it-or-leave-it contract was described as a "contract of adhesion, which is a contract that lacks bargaining power, forcing one party to be favored over the other".

The terms of service or license do not always appear on the same webpage or window, but are always accessible before acceptance, such as through a hyperlink embedded in the product's webpage or a pop-up screen prior to installation. In order to be deemed to have accepted the terms of service, the purchaser must be put on notice that certain terms of service may apply. If the terms of service are not visible and/or accessible, courts have found the notice requirement to be lacking and as such, the purchaser may not be bound to the terms of the agreement.

Cases

Few cases have considered the validity of clickwrap licenses. However, in the cases that have challenged their validity, the terms of the contract have usually been upheld.
Feldman v. Google, Inc., 513 F.Supp.2d 229 (E.D.Pa. 2007) (upholding forum-selection clause)
In re RealNetworks, Inc. Privacy Litigation, No. No. 00-1366, 2000 WL 631341 (D. Ill. May 8, 2000) (upholding an arbitration clause)
Hotmail Corp. v. Van$ Money Pie, No. 98-20064, 1998 WL 388389 (N.D. Cal. Apr. 16, 1998) (granting preliminary injunction for alleged breach of contract for violating the terms of service by using a Hotmail account to send spam or pornography). The court said that clicking the clickwrap button after notice gave consent.
I. Lan Sys., Inc. v. Netscout Serv. Level Corp., 183 F. Supp. 2d 328, 336 (D. Mass. 2002) (upholding a clickwrap agreement on two grounds: first, clickwrap is simply "Money now, terms later" contract formation; second, the court found that the "additional terms" of the clickwrap license was not material under UCC (§207(2)(b)).
Bragg v. Linden Research, Inc., 487 F.Supp.2d 593 (E.D. Pa. 2007) found certain aspects of the Second Life clickwrap agreement "unconscionable, and therefore unenforceable." [1]
Caspi v. Microsoft, LLC, held a forum selection clause in an online membership agreement was consented to when the user clicked the "I agree" symbol of the agreement in order to proceed with registration.
It should be noted however that even though courts have ruled some clickwrap licenses to be enforceable contracts, it does not follow that every term of every clickwrap license is enforceable. Clickwrap licenses must still meet the criteria for enforceability of a unilateral form contract.

Cases in detail

In Register.com, Inc. v. Verio, Inc., 356 F.3d 393 (2d. Cir. 2004), Register.com alleged that Verio had breached the terms of use of Register.com's WHOIS database. Verio responded that the terms were not binding since users could access the database with or without expressing consent to the terms. The court ruled in favor of Register.com, holding that contractual relationships could be formed whether or not users are required to express assent prior to using a product or service.

Nor can Verio argue that it has not assented to Register.com’s terms of use. Register.com’s terms of use are clearly posted on its website. The conclusion of the terms paragraph states “y submitting this query, you agree to abide by these terms.’’ (Ex. 27 to Pl.’s Sept. 8, 2000 Motion). Verio does not argue that it was unaware of these terms, only that it was not asked to click on an icon indicating that it accepted the terms. However, in light of this sentence at the end of Register.com's terms of use, there can be no question that by proceeding to submit a WHOIS query, Verio manifested its assent to be bound by Register.com's terms of use, and a contract was formed and subsequently breached.

An earlier case, Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp., 150 F.Supp.2d 585 (S.D.N.Y. 2001), aff'd, 306 F.3d 17 (2d. Cir. 2002), gave perhaps the clearest definition of a clickwrap license.

A click-wrap license presents the user with a message on his or her computer screen, requiring that the user manifest his or her assent to the terms of the license agreement by clicking on an icon. n12 The product cannot be obtained or used unless and until the icon is clicked. For example, when a user attempts to obtain Netscape's Communicator or Navigator, a web page appears containing the full text of the Communicator / Navigator license agreement. Plainly visible on the screen is the query, "Do you accept all the terms of the preceding license agreement? If so, click on the Yes button. If you select No, Setup will close." Below this text are three button or icons: one labeled "Back" and used to return to an earlier step of the download preparation; one labeled "No," which if clicked, terminates the download; and one labeled "Yes," which if clicked, allows the download to proceed. Unless the user clicks "Yes," indicating his or her assent to the license agreement, the user cannot obtain the software.


References

^ Murdoch University Electronic Journal of Law
^ FindLaw Article
^ 'Shrink-wrap' licenses don't shrink access to data
 
I'd like to see someone try to stop me. I'm not selling anything. It's also not illegal to violate software terms. It is illegal, however, to use software that you didn't pay for.

That's not the point. Law enforcement and law are two different matters. Difficulties in catching you, or even the impossibility, does not make an act legal.

Exactly. I don't blame Apple for changing their software. They can do whatever the hell they want with their software. They own the code. But I disagree with the notion that even if their software supports a certain processor, they tell me that I can't use it with a system that is hardware identical but doesn't have an Apple logo on it. If they don't want me to use it that way, then they shouldn't sell it to me. Why haven't they stopped selling it to me? The blame lies with them if they don't want their software installed on a certain system and yet keep selling it. Nobody has proved software terms to be a legally binding contract. If it becomes illegal to violate software terms, then I will follow the law.

What about the protection encryption you have to violate in oder to use int on non-Apple hardware? It is the same principle on DVDs, Playstations, and so on.

My original comment was directed to the person who said that building a hackintosh with a legally purchased license was piracy.

Tell me how can you circumvent the encryption keys without making it piracy?


Consider this (people will probably say this is a bad analogy but get over it): A computer is hardware, and it runs using software. Cars are hardware, and run using computers running software. Let's say that GM makes a new car called the Californian. After you buy the car, it comes up with a message box on the center console stating that you're only allowed to drive this car in California, even though it drives fine on roads in other states and countries. You have to agree to these terms if you want to drive the car. Do you honestly think that anyone would follow these terms? Of course not. Do you think that any court would rule in favor of GM if they starting suing people who drive to Las Vegas for the weekend? Of course not. I don't see how this is any different, except that if Apple made this car, they would use a GPS to determine if they were still in California and if not, remotely disable the car. The way I understand it is that the hackintosh community removes the GPS to check whether or not the car is still in California. That's all.

It is a terrible sample. Because, even as crazy as it might seem to you. This laws, where you can force people only to buy a car and drive it only on a determined territory is used in many countries around the world.

If people pirate, then the law will deal with them. If the law isn't strong enough to deal with them, or if Apple doesn't put in enough protections to determine if they're using illegal copies, then that's their own fault. As for me, anything I attempt will not break any laws, because I would buy the software for personal use. Does anyone still think that is not reasonable? I like to think I'm a pretty fair, reasonable guy. Apple can do what they want, but as long as what they're doing allows me to do something that they don't want me to do, and as long as it isn't against the law, then I don't see what the problem is.

Clear? Or am I still talking at close-minded walls of fanaticism?

I believe you are just trying to justify your Hackintosh, however, repeating yourself over and over "I am not making something wrong" does not change facts.
 
Screw the legality etc etc. People were buying OSX (money for apple) and installing it on the laptops they wanted. These people are not going to suddenly go "Oh - I CAN'T use it on my £300 netbook - quick - I must buy a £1000 Mac laptop immediately".

This is Steve Job's OCD control freak personality coming out.

Can someone give one good reason why Apple have done this?
 
But guess what? A Windows 7 Retail license is at least 10 times more expensive than the OEM license (At least for the hardware manufaturer).

Windows costs the manufacturer about $50, Windows at retail doesn't cost anywhere near $500.

That's not true. Windows OEM licenses are tied to hardware even in EU.

Not true, at least for XP as I called Microsoft up and asked them this question.
 
Screw the legality etc etc. People were buying OSX (money for apple) and installing it on the laptops they wanted. These people are not going to suddenly go "Oh - I CAN'T use it on my £300 netbook - quick - I must buy a £1000 Mac laptop immediately".

This is Steve Job's OCD control freak personality coming out.

Can someone give one good reason why Apple have done this?

Done what?
 


  1. Frankly I'm not sure how this ever became news! Netbooks are something Apple doesn't have to worry about in their code base anymore, with no sanctioned products this move impacts no one.


    Dave


  1. It's good that it's news. That way all of the people happily running 10.6.1 on their netbooks will hold off on updating to 10.6.2 :) And since it's a rumor site, it's part of the "rumors" on what Apple hardware is coming soon (now we know it won't be Atom based in the near future).
 
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