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Apple Discontinuing Java Installation Packages for Mac OS X?
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Deprecating code does not imply that Oracle will take over. You guys are making it really hard to have an adult discussion. Go beat up on Flash or something
There are lot of services running on java inside Apple. No way, apple will be able to run its business without a proper JVM support. Not even apple store will function without Java.
Now the App store makes full sense, by default, only Core OS/Apple Supplied software will be available, as soon you boot up the first time, you login to app store, and download java/mysql/google stuff and it will keep updating, just like apple supplied ones, in the first place.
His logic is not that far off. VirtualBox was prior to Oracle buying them. There is no guarantee that Oracle will continue developing it - in all likelihood it will be gone soon. Oracle does not care about products that don't make money for them. They will continue putting out a JVM for Solaris/Linux/Windows because it makes them money one way or the other.
There is no money but there is significant effort involved in developing Java for the Mac and then there is uncertainty that Steve will tomorrow lock it down so that it won't be allowed or start pulling or rotting necessary OS level APIs needed for Java.
Time to run away from anything Apple. 1984 is not too far away
That is a huge a huge leap, my friend.
But, hey, feel free to buy whatever computer you feel will suit your needs.
OpenJDK
Though I've not tried it, OpenJDK 7 is available on the Mac and supposedly works with SWT and Swing, so Eclipse and Netbeans should work.
If that's the case, then what Oracle does or does not do for us is likely moot.
Though I've not tried it, OpenJDK 7 is available on the Mac and supposedly works with SWT and Swing, so Eclipse and Netbeans should work.
If that's the case, then what Oracle does or does not do for us is likely moot.
Let's hope you're right. Hopefully, Oracle will make an official statement at some point.
And yet, somehow, you're still here...Time to run away from anything Apple. 1984 is not too away
Since MR, AI, etc. like to occasionally play at journalism, why don't they have somebody on staff call Oracle and find out? Isn't that what real journalists do?
I don't know. I don't find "no comment" all that interesting to read. That's why rumors are so much fun.
And yet, somehow, you're still here...
Wow you are quite on the lookout for making dissidents run away in few seconds after they have a thought about it. Wonder wonder..
What language do you think those 150000 apps in the Android marketplace are written in?
Have you ever met Larry Ellison? The guy never met a microphone or camera he didn't love.
I'd find that very hard to believe he would miss an opportunity to capitalize on getting the word out that (a) Yes, Java is relevant and that (b) Oracle has this all under control. It's a tailor-made message, even I could write the press release!
Have you ever met Larry Ellison? The guy never met a microphone or camera he didn't love.
I'd find that very hard to believe he would miss an opportunity to capitalize on getting the word out that (a) Yes, Java is relevant and that (b) Oracle has this all under control. It's a tailor-made message, even I could write the press release!
Yes, but what language would you use to write it?
Yeah, that's a huge other problem. Those apps are only licensed to use the Java *language* in combination with the Java *VM*. That settlement will eventually include a very large payment to Oracle from Google (and possibly the Android hardware manufacturers); depending on how the chips fall, it could possibly cover much of the Sun acquisition costs.
Worse still, if Oracle were able to get an injunction against Google/Android, it could kill the Android platform overnight.
But we should save that for another thread...
Not really. It's quite obvious Apple's timing here was carefully planned. They deprecate Java on OS X AND simultaneously announce that apps will be rejected "that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java [...])".
There is literally no coincidence in that timing.
One of the nice things about Java on OS X was that it's easy to create a Java app that looks/works just like a native app.
I've been predicting an App Store-based lockdown of OS X for more than a year now. Every step Apple has been taking is bringing that closer and closer to a reality.
Apple has seen where the cash cow is, and they won't stop rolling toward the endgame - unless consumers wake up before it's too late.
Have you ever met Larry Ellison? The guy never met a microphone or camera he didn't love.
I'd find that very hard to believe he would miss an opportunity to capitalize on getting the word out that (a) Yes, Java is relevant and that (b) Oracle has this all under control. It's a tailor-made message, even I could write the press release!
I just called and he wouldn't take my call
The more I'm reading about OpenJDK, the less worried I am. Right now you have to build it yourself, and it's X11 instead of Cocoa, but it is progressing quickly. Once it's released with a nice installer, I'm sure Eclipse and the other IDEs will bundle it with an installer and we'll be done with it.
Rumors of Java's demise are exaggerated, I think.
"Attention, attention, this is a code 3 alert.
All apple fan boys are are required to post in this thread.
A mild understanding of the facts is suggested, but not required.
Simply spend about 45 seconds on a few Wikipedia entries, or the latest tech blogs, but do not become too educated on the topic. Remember, 'hype' is your friend.
Direct experience is frowned upon.
Blind loyalty to whatever edicts come from Cupertino is, however, required.
We thank you for agreeing that we know what is best for you and the marketplace.
In this thread, use propaganda plan 5 alpha, except replace the word 'Flash' with 'Java'.
Remember, post as if you are 'anti-establishment' that way people are less likely to think you actually want to make money."
All apple fan boys are are required to post in this thread.
A mild understanding of the facts is suggested, but not required.
Simply spend about 45 seconds on a few Wikipedia entries, or the latest tech blogs, but do not become too educated on the topic. Remember, 'hype' is your friend.
Direct experience is frowned upon.
Blind loyalty to whatever edicts come from Cupertino is, however, required.
We thank you for agreeing that we know what is best for you and the marketplace.
In this thread, use propaganda plan 5 alpha, except replace the word 'Flash' with 'Java'.
Remember, post as if you are 'anti-establishment' that way people are less likely to think you actually want to make money."
That's 100% correct. Go to craigslist and check out the job offerings in the Bay Area or Austin, and you'll see that 90% of the jobs are either ASP.NET or Java. How's it possible when not a single consumer application is written in Java, and the only consumer .NET app I know of is Sony Vegas? Well, most software doesn't appear on the Best Buy shelves. Most applications are highly specialized business products, catering to a specific niche. Often these products are developed in less than a week from scratch, and no one cares how crappy the user interface looks like, only 1 or 2 people in the world will ever use it. Most of the time there's no user interface, or the UI is inside a web browser, and Java is only used on the server side. The only important thing is that Java and C# provide a 100% crash-proof solution, it's practically impossible to write code in those languages that crashes a service or server, due to garbage collection and the lack of low level pointer arithmetics. For a nice consumer product, like iLife, by all means use Cocoa. But the majority of the developers work on custom business solutions, for which the generally accepted platforms are Java and, for Windows, .NET. Many engineers develop Java code on Macs, even if the customer will run it on Linux or Windows.
This makes sense.
Why would Apple spend resources to support another company's development platform? In the past Apple needed Java to help remain relevant. But with their ever-improving consumer market share, where's the justification to spend $ on a technology like Java?
Apple's very unlikely to hold a "back to the server" event any time soon
And obviously this move it just as likely to have a positive effect on Java on the Mac as it is to spell the end of it. It's up to Oracle now...as it should be.
Why would Apple spend resources to support another company's development platform? In the past Apple needed Java to help remain relevant. But with their ever-improving consumer market share, where's the justification to spend $ on a technology like Java?
Apple's very unlikely to hold a "back to the server" event any time soon
And obviously this move it just as likely to have a positive effect on Java on the Mac as it is to spell the end of it. It's up to Oracle now...as it should be.
LOL!Yes, but what language would you use to write it?
Best post in the whole thread!
If it's so easy, why isn't it done more often? I use a few Java apps on OS X. They get the job done, but it ain't always pretty and it's never fast (I know, I know, Java isn't slow. But for some reason Java apps are.)
Apple simply put ball on Oracle's court, where it should have been to begin with.
Its a nonissue for Windows users and Linux users, why would it be any different for Mac users. Let oracle supply or let OpenJDK pick up steam.
Oracle will be stupid not to supply a JVM. Look at IE, when MS dropped IE for Mac, apple came up with Safari (and WebKit). Now google, nokia etc are all using WebKit. IE's market share is lowest in years.
If Oracle won't do it, someone else will fill the void.
I yield to your experience with Java. I haven't programmed in Java since I was in school. I do know is that my Mac version of Java gets updated about 1/10th as often as it does on Windows. The Windows versions seem to be the latest versions from Oracle as it gets distributed. (Update 22 etc.)
In regards to your bug challenge... I'm looking at the "Known and Resolved Issues" in the developer documentation for this Java release and I'm seeing quite a few bugs listed. They're not in Java itself but the AWT. So I stand by the statement that there were and most likely are issues with Apple's implementation of Java.