Apple Discounts Cinema Displays

[TheSlush]

Could there be any reason to think that this price drop means new displays are coming any second now? There's been some buzz here and there about new displays on the horizon, possibly with built-in iSight cameras....

 

[Eidorian]

can you explain the difference?

$50 on the low end, $100 in the middle, and $200 on the high.

 

[syklee26]

$50 on the low end, $100 in the middle, and $200 on the high.

....i meant the difference between s-ips and the other technology....

 

[gugy]

price drops are always apreciate.
I have the feeling that they will introduce at NAB the larger display. 40" +.
alongside FCP extreme.

 

[dante@sisna.com]

Lol, gimme a break. I can buy 2 Dell Ultrasharps for 1 Cinema Display. That's double the pixel count.

You can laugh out loud all you like, but obviously you miss my point: I am speaking to the High End Graphics Arts Print Production market. Last I checked, some Apple users still worked in this market.

Folks in this industry understand the science behind why an ACD is a better choice over a Dell Ultrasharp, even with calibration on the Dell. I would never put one of my artists in front of a Dell -- even a calibrated one -- Why? Because the Dell has too many monitor adjustments to color, brightness, etc. Laugh at this all you want and call me fool, BUT educate yourself before you do -- if one touches ANY of the Dell's monitor controls after a monitor calibration/colorsync profile, then the Calibrated monitor is basically useless. And this is just the first reason. The more finely tuned LUT's and SWOP certification are numbers two and three. All calibration not-withstanding.

The key in color matching, which is a science, is to let the COLORSYNC ICC PROFILE interact with the Video Card, the Operating System, the Software, and Proof and Offset/Digital Printers (and on initial input a scanner, digital camera, etc).

Again, this is just speaking to the print production market.

For Video the Dell is a better choice.

Want to learn more? Below are a few excerpts from Dr. Karl Lang -- the architect of the Sony Artisan, the Radius PressView, ColorMatch, ProSense and many other products. He worked with display technology both CRT and LCD for the last 15 years.

". . .As an example the fact that Apple's display has no controls other than
backlight is actually a very good thing for an 8-8-8 LCD if your going
to use calibration. Apple optimizes the factory LUTs so as to provide
the most individual colors. smooth greyscale and the least loss. Then
the calibration is done in the graphic card LUT. As these are all 8 bit
it's best if the user does not mess with the display LUTs at all.
Overall Lab to Lab Delta E of 23 patches is a very poor metric to
evaluate a display. It completely leaves out many areas of color space
(the tool they used is designed to make the colorimeter look good so
tuff patches are not included) contrast ratio, stability, aging,
greyscale performance and other important considerations."

Basically, if you understand the science of color management, you would never want 2 Dell Ultrasharps over 1 ACD 30".

And this is just the beginning of the color science tutorial: I have not even begun to really get into it.

Sorry, but in the area of print production, where color match is important, your statement is foolish. In this case you live up to your MacRumors "Newbie" title.

 

[~Shard~]

Excellent news! The updates are slowly starting to take place - it should be a fun next couple of months, culminating with WWDC... 😎

 

[atari1356]

can you explain the difference?

The short answer is, S-IPS generally has the best color reproduction and the picture doesn't degrade much when viewing the monitor from an angle. So, it's better for graphic design work or anything where color accuracy is important.


The long answer is:

TN Gamers
Considered a "gamers" panel due to it's fast pixel response times which reduces trailing images know as "ghosting". However, this advantage has been reduced by new technologies to accelerate pixel response times in other panel types. Colors and contrast tend to be weak and blacks are not truly dark. Viewing angles are significantly limited. However, monitors based on this technology tend to be inexpensive.

IPS / S-IPS Graphics Work or Web Browsing
Considered to have the best color reproduction of all panel types, these panels are well suited for graphics work or web browsing. Pixel response time is also good but slower than the TN "gamers" panel. Contast and blacks are also less dark than VA panels but viewing angles are excellent.

MVA / P-MVA / PVA / S-PVA Compromise for All-Around Use
These panels are a compromise between the fast pixel response times of the TN panel and the excellent color reproduction of the IPS panels. Contrast and blacks are best of all the panel types. Viewing angles are similar but slightly inferior to IPS.

That's taken from this site, where you can read more:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222

 

[roland.g]

What's the difference between this 22" Dell for $276 and this 24" Dell for $629?

Other than the 1680x1050 vs 1920x1200, the 2", and the contrast ratio 800 vs 1000. Seems like a big jump ($353) for those specs.

 

[millypede]

The UK price has not dropped even though the site suggests it has.

 

[HiRez]

I sure would like a 24" ACD with LED backlighting for home. But if they update the 30" and keep the prices at $1800 I'll be tempted. I use 30" ACDs at work and they are absolutely gorgeous displays. They may not be the brightest or have the highest pixel count or be the most adjustable or the cheapest, but imagery is so smooth and colors so accurate the price is easy to justify IMO. After using these monitors for a while, it's hard to go back to others (I have an LG flat panel at home that I used to think looked pretty decent). And World of Warcraft looks amazing on a 30" ACD too 😀

 

[aleck]

UK prices are identical to what they were. No changes there.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

UK prices are identical to what they were. No changes there.

Yes, I know for a fact the 20" display was £529 a week or 2 ago, and exactly the same now.🙁

If you remove the VAT from the UK price it's £450. In todays exchange rate that's $889. Compare that to the $599 now being charged on the US AppleStore. In fact, if the price has come down by $100, it sounds as though it was cheaper in the US even before the price reduction - by a significant amount.

 

[itsme92]

Agreed - the single input on the Apple monitors is the #1 reason why I won't consider one. #2 is price. C'mon

C'mon Apple, add component and composite video inputs and I'll buy an ACD. But if you don't then I'm just going to buy a Gateway or Dell.

I am willing to pay extra for the shiny Apple logo, but not unless they add video inputs.

 

[ITR 81]

price drops are always apreciate.
I have the feeling that they will introduce at NAB the larger display. 40" +.
alongside FCP extreme.

Your probably right.

I wouldn't go as high as 40inches...maybe 32-36inches.

Maybe even built-in iSight cams.

 

[Ramsos]

What's the difference between this 22" Dell for $276 and this 24" Dell for $629?

Other than the 1680x1050 vs 1920x1200, the 2", and the contrast ratio 800 vs 1000. Seems like a big jump ($353) for those specs.

the difference is the more expensive one can display 1080 HD resolution and the other one cant.

 

[jayb2000]

C'mon Apple, add component and composite video inputs and I'll buy an ACD. But if you don't then I'm just going to buy a Gateway or Dell.

I am willing to pay extra for the shiny Apple logo, but not unless they add video inputs.

You might want to check out the HP / Hewlett-Packard LP3065 30" Widescreen LCD Computer Display with 3 DVI-D Inputs and USB 2.0 Hub
It comes with the three dual-link DVI-D inputs and two dual-link DVI cables

B&H has it for $1619, plus a $40 rebate, so only $1579

So almost $200 less with better color and more input.s

 

[ChrisA]

That insane. Even with price drops the Dell widescreen 20 inch is over 300 dollars cheaper.

They use different technologies. The Apple screens are IPS while Dell has gone with PVA I believe to save money.
Read a very basic introduction here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#Types

All of the Apple ACD monitors use a 16 ms S-IPS LG.Philips pannel.

Dell uses TN PVA and a few IPS panels but it's random Dell uses multiple supliers so you can't know what you will get when you order. I've heard of people buying and returning multiple 20 monitors untill finaly they got one with a Phillips S-IPS pannel but what a hassel. There is no way to know how many you'd need to return

In the 20" size most Dells ship with the Samsung LTM240M1-L01 inside while Apple uses LG.Philips LM201W01. In the past Dell used the same LG Phillips part.

This really does matter if you are using the system for photography. For games, watching movies and office work it does not matter one bit. But then Apple markets these ACDs to people who make digital content even if very few of their customers actually do.

 

[archer75]

If they drop the price of their displays another $200 each it would be more reasonable and closer to other monitors. More expensive still but that's apple.

 

[guzhogi]

Agreed - the single input on the Apple monitors is the #1 reason why I won't consider one. #2 is price. C'mon

Just out of curiosity, what can 2 inputs provide? And do you mean like 2 of the same kind of inputs or different kinds of inputs (DVI, VGA, HDMI, etc.)? If you want to connect 2 computers to the same monitor, you can always get a KVM switch. I know, that's 1 more thing on your desk, but it lets you connect multiple computers to the same keyboard, mouse and display. Don't know how many people would need that, but it's available.

 

[SoldOutMatinee]

Could there be any reason to think that this price drop means new displays are coming any second now? There's been some buzz here and there about new displays on the horizon, possibly with built-in iSight cameras....

New displays was my first thought too.

 

[TWEO]

Yes, I know for a fact the 20" display was £529 a week or 2 ago, and exactly the same now.🙁

If you remove the VAT from the UK price it's £450. In todays exchange rate that's $889. Compare that to the $599 now being charged on the US AppleStore. In fact, if the price has come down by $100, it sounds as though it was cheaper in the US even before the price reduction - by a significant amount.

Same thing here in Holland. For example, the 30" model would cost you EUR 1.931 excluding VAT. That's USD 2,581 versus USD 1800 if you buy it in the US. We've already missed out on the previous price cut, so Apple, at least let us profit a little this time 🙁

 

[archer75]

Just out of curiosity, what can 2 inputs provide? And do you mean like 2 of the same kind of inputs or different kinds of inputs (DVI, VGA, HDMI, etc.)? If you want to connect 2 computers to the same monitor, you can always get a KVM switch. I know, that's 1 more thing on your desk, but it lets you connect multiple computers to the same keyboard, mouse and display. Don't know how many people would need that, but it's available.

My Dell has DVI, VGA, Svideo and composite. My Gateway has DVI, VGA and 2 sets of component inputs. It makes it alot more versitle.

 

[JFreak]

C'mon Apple, add component and composite video inputs and I'll buy an ACD. But if you don't then I'm just going to buy a Gateway or Dell. I am willing to pay extra for the shiny Apple logo, but not unless they add video inputs.

Apple Cinema Displays area ALL DIGITAL, which means ONLY DIGITAL connections can be used. Component and composite are analog signals, which is why ACD does not have them (and will never have).

So c'mon, stop whining and buy something that fits your needs.

 

[princealfie]

Okay, just 10-15 steps closer to my 30" display I really really want! 🙂

The colorsync profiles, the lack of display controls (acutally a POSITIVE for Color Management) and the more finely tuned LUT's make the ACD a BETTER buy than the dells for Print Production Graphics work -- FOR SURE.

I have both here in our studio.

Agreed. Dell's are wildly inaccurate. Of course, Gateway is even better than Dell hahaha!

 

[JFreak]

...And yet, they're still more expensive than the competition.

They're high-end monitors, which is why they cost more. Also, strange enough, my high-end Genelecs cost way more than Behringer monitors, but that's the way it is. Whatever sounds or looks closer to the truth (aka "high-end") than the mainstream, it will most likely cost more.

But if you don't *need* the high-end product, you can very well buy cheaper alternative. It's just a great thing that those high-end products are available for those who *need* the best and are not so picky about the price.

You get what you pay for.