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This keeps getting repeated and it's absolutely stupid. I mean... if even one of the shows is HBO quality then it's worth $14.99 per month. That's how HBO commands their price, quality. And they've done so for nearly 3 decades. So 4.99 would be a huge steal, and certainly be worth it over flexing a high quantity of BS.
HBO has a catalog of thousands of movies and decades of original content that can be streamed. Plus most people like me only pay for HBO for 2 months out of the year to watch Game of Thrones and that is over now also.

Netflix didn’t start with original content. They started with DVD’s and then turned everything to streaming and started original content to set themselves apart and keep people from switching services.

Disney has been making movies for decades and has decades of original series content. They also have them complete Marvel catalog and the complete Fox catalog. They are also making new original content.

Apple has a dozen new shows at the moment.

They will grow...but comparing Apple to anyone else right now is crazy.

It will work after some time but giving it away for 1 year is required right now.

You can’t compare this to Apple Music as Apple already had the largest Amount of music and people listening with Apple devices. They only started Apple Music because the market was switching that direction and new companies were gaining market share.

People will eventually buy this service. Just not in its current form. Currently it’s worth $4.99 for 1 month, binge, and cancel
 
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After reading a couple dozen replies I don’t think many understand what Goldman Sachs is saying about the potential impact of the accounting.
 
Further proof that what's good for the shareholders isn't necessarily the same as what's good for the customers.

Buuuut when your executive teams' bonuses are tied to shares of stock (and their value), is it any wonder the kinds of decisions we see?

I'm not seeing your point. What is good for shareholder in the long-term is good for the customers. Take Delta airlines completely ripping me off for a cancelled flight. First they charged me $215 for the inconvenience of selling the ticket to someone else (yes the seat was taken), then they put the remaining refund in my wife's name who will be out of the country and can't use it, and won't give me my own money back. so they stole the full $750. Weaselly words aside, I think every customer would agree, they stole my money. I will not fly them again, ever, ever, ever. Is that good for shareholders, $750 richer, but losing customers and bad PR. Fly SouthWest - free checked bags and no change fees!
 
I know that Goldman Sachs' credit card division is a very different part of the company than the investment banking analysts' division, but this sure is awkward.

Well, they manage to sell to investor on Sub Prime Mortgage while Hedging Bet against it, I don't see how this is any more awkward.
 
That analyst is clueless. He has no idea how powerful, how entrapping and addicting the Apple Ecosystem is. Once Apple customers get sucked into the Apple Ecosystem, it's very difficult to bail out. And often it starts with a Free Trial. Remember all the clueless analysts that said Apple Music would fail? That it would never ever compete or catch up to Spotify etc? LOL

Apple Music also started with free trials.

Or the analysts saying that there's no way Apple is just going to walk into the phone market and expect to compete.
 
After reading a couple dozen replies I don’t think many understand what Goldman Sachs is saying about the potential impact of the accounting.

And it sounds like Goldman Sachs doesn't get it either. There are many ways to account for this, anyone with a financial background (except the GS analyst apparently) would understand. One way is to record the freebie is as a cost of business development, not impacting hardware sales at all. That is in fact justified because few people would actually buy a device because it came with a free subscription. Truth is, there are as many ways to account for this, only one of which was described by GS, and even if that is the one chosen, guess what? everyone would know the price of devices was lowered via a discount program. Probably not his best work, and getting way too much attention
 
That analyst is clueless. He has no idea how powerful, how entrapping and addicting the Apple Ecosystem is. Once Apple customers get sucked into the Apple Ecosystem, it's very difficult to bail out. And often it starts with a Free Trial. Remember all the clueless analysts that said Apple Music would fail? That it would never ever compete or catch up to Spotify etc? LOL

Apple Music also started with free trials.

10 years ago Apple offered FREE iPod Touch with a purchase of MacBook to students, that’s how I got sucked into the apple ecosystem. I am happy about that.
 
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We are talking about revenue recognition, not cash revenue.

But in the end, the balance sheet is supposed to reflect the financials of the entity. That's Apple's point, and what the analyst and others are missing. No matter what accounting contortions one goes through, it's absurd to suggest a plummeting in revenue, stock value etc., because Apple gives free access to Apple TV plus. There's no marginal cost to Apple to do so, but there is undeniable revenue and value increases from increases in hardware sales, having the largest streaming service in the world, revenue from conversions to paid, etc.
 
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That analyst is clueless. He has no idea how powerful, how entrapping and addicting the Apple Ecosystem is. Once Apple customers get sucked into the Apple Ecosystem, it's very difficult to bail out. And often it starts with a Free Trial. Remember all the clueless analysts that said Apple Music would fail? That it would never ever compete or catch up to Spotify etc? LOL

Apple Music also started with free trials.
Just like heroin :)
 
That analyst is clueless. He has no idea how powerful, how entrapping and addicting the Apple Ecosystem is. Once Apple customers get sucked into the Apple Ecosystem, it's very difficult to bail out. And often it starts with a Free Trial. Remember all the clueless analysts that said Apple Music would fail? That it would never ever compete or catch up to Spotify etc? LOL

Apple Music also started with free trials.

So true. I didn’t want to pay 9.99 for Apple Music but tried the 3 month trial and the rest is history.
 
1) T[I said:
his year, when you buy a 11Pro, Apple ONLY recognizes $940 in hardware revenue and now recognizes an additional $60 in Services. So, Apple's hardware sales goes down and services go up an equal amount. So, yes you are right, their total revenue is the same, but Apple is still highly leveraged to their Hardware sales. So, a drop in revenue will be noticed.[/I]

You've made three key errors. First, you're conflating "hardware sales" with "revenue from hardware sales." Hardware sales don't go down because you move a portion of the revenue to another revenue category. You're even bigger mistake is assuming that hardware revenue will be static every quarter such that any reapportionment to services will result in a decrease in hardware revenue reported. But Apple is going into it's best quarter for sales, and has many new products coming out. The most likely scenario is that reported hardware revenue will increase from increased sales, higher ASP, etc. Finally, your theory also assumes that any competent analysts will ascribe any significance to the financial health of Apple from the neutral accounting step of moving revenue on a balance sheet from one spot to the next.


2) First of all, there is always going to be incremental cost in delivery costs (hardware, bandwidth, processing, etc.) While not huge, it is also not ZERO.


Next, you should read up on the impact of the internet on distribution costs. There are a number of good articles that explain the concept that, as Ben Thompson describes it:

"The key economic change introduced by the Internet is the effective elimination of marginal distribution and transaction costs."

Apple, Amazon, Google, etc., can offer their services so much cheaper because of this concept. Here's how to understand it. If you decide to sign up for Apple TV plus, there's already the infrastructure in place for you to click on the link on the Apple Website and instantly start streaming. Apple doesn't need to write an app, create an account for you, set up a billing service, lay fiber, buy a server, etc., or since Apple owns the original content, pay a royalty. In contrast, with music streaming, Apple, Spotify, and others incur royalties for every song you play.


3) In addition, without knowing the terms of the deals Apple has made with Studios/Actors/Directors, you can't assume that there isn't some revenue sharing based on views. Very likely, much like streaming music, there is some payments based views.


You're conflating things again. Music streaming is a licensing business, where Apple, Spotify, Amazon, etc., have to pay a royalty to the companies that own the license/rights to the music. Ditto, with video streaming if you don't own the content. The whole point of what Netflix, Amazon, Apple, etc., are doing with original content is pay people up front and then own the rights.

In sum, if Apple, Netflix, etc., were giving actors and such a cut, it would be reported by the industry like the salaries, etc., that the industry reports. Beyond that, See #2 above. Their models are based on eliminating marginal distribution costs, not increasing them every time they sign up another customer. LOL. If your theory was correct, then Apple adding 200-300 million subscribers to AT Plus would be a huge hit to their bottom line as they paid the actors and directors based on views.
 
I'm not seeing your point. What is good for shareholder in the long-term is good for the customers. Take Delta airlines completely ripping me off for a cancelled flight. First they charged me $215 for the inconvenience of selling the ticket to someone else (yes the seat was taken), then they put the remaining refund in my wife's name who will be out of the country and can't use it, and won't give me my own money back. so they stole the full $750. Weaselly words aside, I think every customer would agree, they stole my money. I will not fly them again, ever, ever, ever. Is that good for shareholders, $750 richer, but losing customers and bad PR. Fly SouthWest - free checked bags and no change fees!

I fly both Southwest and Delta and have had occasional bad experiences with both. Your decision never to use Delta again will have no effect on the airline. What did you do to try to get compensation? Have you written to the CEO? If not, get his contact information (it's usually not hard to find or deduce) and send him a polite but firm email or letter.

When I signed up for Netflix years ago, it was to see TV shows and movies produced elsewhere. But these days I mostly watch Netflix-produced content that I can't find anywhere else. If Apple TV+ programming turns out to be good, I'll give it a try.
 
Further proof that what's good for the shareholders isn't necessarily the same as what's good for the customers.

Buuuut when your executive teams' bonuses are tied to shares of stock (and their value), is it any wonder the kinds of decisions we see?


My exact immediate thoughts, this could not be a better example of the severely myopic view of Wall Street.
 
I can’t see Apple’s market share or revenues bouncing back into positive this year for iPhones.
It’s almost like that’s not the goal, at least for the latter.
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What is good for shareholder in the long-term is good for the customers.
I will not fly them again, ever, ever, ever.

Shareholders unequivocally do not care about your story unless there’s a mass exodus of customers, enough to materially impact revenues and/or profits.

You are not enough to materially impact revenues and/or profits.
 
Such a strange professional relationship Goldman and Apple have.

Goldman: We back the Apple Card. Get it.
ALSO Goldman: Cuts the Apple stock target price. Don't get it.

The banking and analysis business are independent.
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This large financial entities should screen their analysts opinions before letting them out to the public.
These narrow minded and cheap analysts are out of control.

Hardly. Their job is to look at the numbers and decide what impact it will have on profitability and growth and decide on a stock price target. They should not be cheerleaders.
In this case, the analyst is pointing out since the hardware side is getting charged for the free offer it will be a drag on their margins; which makes sense since someone at Apple needs to absorb the cost of AppleTV+.

A free year of AppleTV+ Is the best advertising campaign Apple could have chosen.
Encourages people to buy Apple products just to get the freebie, and also gives them a chance to try it and become addicted to it.

Apple will no doubt offer a free trial so people can try it anyway. The question is will Apple convert enough of the free years to paid subscriptions to make it a viable promotion?
 
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There are many ways to account for this, anyone with a financial background (except the GS analyst apparently) would understand. One way is to record the freebie is as a cost of business development, not impacting hardware sales at all. That is in fact justified because few people would actually buy a device because it came with a free subscription.
It is a revenue recognition issue and expenses need to be matched to the revenue associated with them. Since the costs of subscriptions are incurred from the sales of hardware they need to be expenses against the revenue.
 
It's sad that too many shareholders only care about short-term gains instead of customer retention for the sake of greater profits in the future. If you give the consumers free content now, especially with an offer as attractive as one year (as opposed to the usual one to three months that I never even bother with), they will become addicted to the exclusive programming that is available on the service and be forced to renew.

That's a much better strategy than not having it free at all, which may be perceived by potential customers as a barrier to entry.
 
what evidence is there that many people in the firm agree with him?
The fact that it was published. GIR don’t release reports which only 1 person agrees with.

The author will have a team below him (of analysts) who will have come to the same conclusion
 
So true. I didn’t want to pay 9.99 for Apple Music but tried the 3 month trial and the rest is history.
Thing is, that service has darn near all music. You don't sign up to get "Apple exclusive" music (there's a little, but barely moves the meter).

I'm concerned that tv+ is 100% Apple exclusive, and that curated to a checklist less about awesomeness than correctness. I'm equally unimpressed by Amazon & other exclusives; please separate content creating from delivery ownership.
 
When has bundling ever been a bad thing? Cable companies get rich with their bundles. Amazon bundles Video with Prime, what’s the difference here? Apple did the right thing to give away a free year with a hardware purchase. A $100 discount on Apple hardware is considered a great deal, so a $60 discount (in the form of a freebie, so not even a true discount, Apple keeps the money) will move a lot more hardware. Every extra sale increases the overall revenue in a hardware market that is basically saturated and flat. The extra sales will more than make up for the decrease in hardware margin. I’m planning to make a MacBook Pro purchase this year and the free service definitely is a factor. This is nothing new. Remember free iPods and printers? Bundles have worked well for Apple in the past. This analyst is clueless.
 
Such a strange professional relationship Goldman and Apple have.

Goldman: We back the Apple Card. Get it.
ALSO Goldman: Cuts the Apple stock target price. Don't get it.
Kind of like the relationship apple has with samsumg:

Apple: I'm suing you for billions
Also apple: please sell us millions of your best displays.
 
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