Apple Employees Increasingly Content to Criticize the Company Amid Switch Remote Working and Use of Slack

[dgrey]

Apple Employees are the biggest bunch of coddled, spoiled, self-entitled ¢€&#$.

This is one area where I side with Cook.

P.S. You know what? It’s not just Apple. It’s Tech workers in gneral.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I started and ran a mfg company with max cult status, and every day dealt with the kind of weirdos that offered to work for ”free” just to be attached to something they thought was cool. I made the mistake of indulging that one time, before our investor stepped in and talked some sense into me. No, you can’t run a company effectively staffing it with sycophants in it for their own personal fame & glory. I replaced our fanboy shipping manager with a nice old lady who was very good at showing up on time and being an employee.

And when your employees have concerns, a manager that ignores them or tells them “shut up and get back to work” is a #$&* idiot and deserves to lose them.

 

[senttoschool]

Pathetic to see so many people on these forums in support of a multi-billion dollar corporation over their fellow man who just want a better company culture and better working conditions. You are the same people who hate that apple will start scanning your photos....yet you defend the corporation over fellow human beings with actual lives and who want privacy. Some of you need to really take a look in the mirror and re-define your priorities. You are no different then someone who hates the removal of a feature like a headphone jack, yet then turns around and buys the latest product supporting the companies decision with your hard earned money.

Um... I will not work for a company that is fully remote or promote a hybrid work environment. I want everyone in the office because it's far more efficient, more collaborative, more innovative, and honestly, get more stuff done.

Working remote sucks. It's unfair when a few members are working from home all the time while everyone else is not and have to factor in the extra hassle of communicating with WFH people.

 

[BKDad]

It's kind of funny. One of the big reasons Apple executives keep saying about why it's so important for everybody to get back to work in the office is because of the great innovations that take place due to random interactions between employees. Like in the hall, at the water cooler, and and who knows where else.

But, at the same time, they have everybody sign agreements not to talk to their fellow workers and interactions are heavily limited.

Kind of a dichotomy, eh?

Personally, my view is that Apple can run their company any way they want to, as long as they adhere to the law. It's worked out pretty well to date, at least for share holders. The few people I know who have worked for Apple are ex-employees who didn't like the attitudes and work (un)balance demanded by management. They all left after a year or two for places where they now make more money and are enjoying themselves. But, everybody looks for something different in a job.

 

[rpmurray]

I've always been content to criticize Apple and I don't even work for them.

 

[cateye]

This is not how it works. Nor is it how workplace issues are solved internally or by courts. I mean, you can keep saying it is, but it's not.

It absolutely is how it works in an employment-at-will state, which includes most states in the U.S. (I believe there are only one or two that are not). Some states have specific exemptions that further employee protections vs. employers, but most do not:

The employment at-will doctrine applies when an employee works for an employer without a written contract that sets forth the terms of the employment relationship. This is the situation for the vast majority of employment relationships.

Under the employment at-will doctrine, both the employer and employee can terminate an employment relationship at any time without consequence. The employment relationship can be terminated for any reason or no reason at all. The employer cannot, however, terminate an employee for an “illegal” reason, such as termination based on discrimination against certain protected classes such as sex, gender, race, religion or national origin; violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act; and termination in violation of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act.

 

[Stella]

This. Working for any company is an unspoken social contract: You provide the workplace, I provide the work. If you don't like my work, you will complain. If I don't like your workplace, I will complain. If either crosses a threshold of tolerability, you may fire me, or I may quit.

Neither side should somehow pretend this agreement doesn't exist.

It's not black and white as you suggest.

Employees have every right to raise their grievances to their employer. The employer can start to listen and act on employees complaints, or, the employer can ignore the complaints and suffer the consequences: a higher turnover rate, which is expensive, and reduced moral and productivity, and an acquire an unfavourable reputation which will deter good talent from considering a career at the company.

Both employers and employees need work together, flexible and compromise may be necessary.

 

[Techwatcher]

No one is forced to work at Apple. Don't like it, leave. All these complaints are just so stupid. Thousands of people would like to work at Apple almost for free. Throw them in jail for breaking their NDAs.

What happened to good old fashioned company loyalty? Especially for something as great as Apple.

"Grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. Once those new employees start there, over time they would see the nonsense Apple has going on and understand why prior employees were upset [even if they don't verbally complain].

 

[4jasontv]

What happened to good old fashioned company loyalty? Especially for something as great as Apple.

It‘s hanging out with pensions, profit sharing, rising from the mailroom, job security, and holiday bonuses.

 

[cateye]

It's not black and white as you suggest.

Employees have every right to raise their grievances to their employer. The employer can start to listen and act on employees complaints, or, the employer can ignore the complaints and suffer the consequences: a higher turnover rate, which is expensive, and reduced moral and productivity, and an acquire an unfavourable reputation which will deter good talent from considering a career at the company.

Both employers and employees need work together, flexible and compromise may be necessary.

Totally correct, and I didn't mean to suggest the relationship between Apple and its employees was lacking any nuance. There are consequences in both directions, for Apple and for its employees, if these conflicts continue unresolved.

My disagreement is with the pro-Apple bleating, that somehow the very act of working for Apple, because Apple, should remove any desire for an employee to ask for, or even demand, a better workplace. It's not indentured servitude, and no employer deserves that level of loyalty. However, yes, unspoken is the idea that every employee needs to do the math on what they are willing to put up with. Opportunities are everywhere, especially in tech, especially right now.

 

[cesko]

In other news, Slack is renamed “Pandora’s Box”

 

[giggles]

These are big companies.

There will be issues here and there.

The important thing is creating procedures to deal with these situations. And being ready to change those procedures.

Blizzard got to the point of being sued by the state of California instead of dealing with some internal culture problems and showing the door to some misbehaving managers.

 

[cmichaelb]

Pathetic to see so many people on these forums in support of a multi-billion dollar corporation over their fellow man who just want a better company culture and better working conditions. You are the same people who hate that apple will start scanning your photos....yet you defend the corporation over fellow human beings with actual lives and who want privacy. Some of you need to really take a look in the mirror and re-define your priorities. You are no different then someone who hates the removal of a feature like a headphone jack, yet then turns around and buys the latest product supporting the companies decision with your hard earned money.

I have never in my life seen such staunch emotional defenses for the company of mass manufactured products, not even the products themselves people hunkered down a lot of cash for.

People should look themselves in the mirror and wonder what they've become, and how they've gotten there. imo.

Why do you both assume all accusations are true? You should always let the facts come out before taking a position. I don't understand how any of us have a dog in the fight.

We aren't there and know the real story. The accusations may prove to be accurate, and they may not be.

I'm an ombudsman, and not every accusation proves to be true. If they are, then you act on them.

Apple does deserve criticism for the flaws they continue to ignore in their software.

 

[thadoggfather]

Why do you both assume all accusations are true? You should always let the facts come out before taking a position. I don't understand how any of us have a dog in the fight.

We aren't there and know the real story. The accusations may prove to be accurate, and they may not be.

I'm an ombudsman, and not every accusation proves to be true. If they are, then you act on them.

Apple does deserve criticism for the flaws they continue to ignore in their software.

The real story is I see lots of emotional defense post comments of the company independent of the issue, reliably, that's what I'm predicating my observation on.

 

[cateye]

The important thing is creating procedures to deal with these situations. And being ready to change those procedures.

And therein lies the problem. From what I've known from people who've worked at Apple over the years, it's a relatively rigid company, process-wise. Which again, not unusual for a giant corporation. The smaller the company, the closer the C-suite is to the people doing the actual work, the more in-tune they are with problems of company culture. Once you get beyond a certain level of abstraction in corporate structure, you live in the rarified air of your own marketing bubble, and it becomes harder to stay connected to everything going on below.

This is not unique to Apple. I think every company above a certain size struggles mightily with this.

 

[BKDad]

Totally correct, and I didn't mean to suggest the relationship between Apple and its employees was lacking any nuance. There are consequences in both directions, for Apple and for its employees, if these conflicts continue unresolved.

My disagreement is with the pro-Apple bleating, that somehow the very act of working for Apple, because Apple, should remove any desire for an employee to ask for, or even demand, a better workplace. It's not indentured servitude, and no employer deserves that level of loyalty. However, yes, unspoken is the idea that every employee needs to do the math on what they are willing to put up with. Opportunities are everywhere, especially in tech, especially right now.

Apple has certainly created a certain mystique about themselves with the public. Key word there: created.

I'd bet that the Apple of 40 years ago, the one at the foundation of that mystique, disappeared about 30 or so years ago. Start-up attitudes work when people are genuinely doing something different that they believe in and there is a possibility for finding a pot at the end of the rainbow. Now, the work at Apple may be cool, but be honest - how many people really get the chance to show off their skills or contribute a ton to the overall effort, in whatever way they can? The company is far too large for that now, with the inevitable politics and internal messiness that comes attached to that.

My point is that the public perception may not represent reality at the company now. We don't really have a good way to know. Apple employees aren't exactly publishing exposes, either good or bad.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Nevermind the health concerns and such: life is short, and we don't want to spend it rotting under a fluorescent lit box if we dont have to -- most of us at least.

I must push back on this. There is absolutely no indication that wfh is intrinsically healthier, especially on the mental health side. The lack of full human interaction is actually correlated to depression, anxiety and more.

 

[genovelle]

That’s all I see and these Apple employees are doing. They are complaining. Spoiled brats. It just sounds like these Apple
Employees are not happy at all.

The HR conversation should be: It sounds like you are no longer happy here. I guess it’s time to part ways and make room for a better fit. We are looking for our next generation of leaders and you clearly are not it. Good luck.

 

[stars_fan]

Want to piss off the employees. Take Slack away and replace it with MS Teams. Nothing kills productivity like using the dumpster fire teams app.

 

[Maconplasma]

LOL @ people here defending the cooperation cashing in on their products vs. standing by the people that are actually building them...

Last I checked you can’t build products working from home. 🙄

 

[raywkh14]

Judging by the OS releases this year, everything is just so mediocre. A whole year of online work, you can really tell the quality is down.

 

[magicschoolbus]

Dont like it, quit. That's what I will be doing in 2 weeks when they force me back. Its a candidates market.

 

[Blackstick]

Apple Employees are the biggest bunch of coddled, spoiled, self-entitled ¢€&#$.

This is one area where I side with Cook.

P.S. You know what? It’s not just Apple. It’s Tech workers in gneral.

I've seen you comment on multiple threads about this. You have a chip on your shoulder about technology workers being 100% virtual employees, and it's very obvious. Almost like you're jealous. Go get the skills that let you work from home if you're so peeved.

 

[BKDad]

Apple does deserve criticism for the flaws they continue to ignore in their software.

Ain't that the truth.

It's even more frustrating when the people who interact with customers at pretty much all levels are unable to help or even acknowledge what can be proven to them.

At the basic level, they haven't been trained to solve the problem. Fair enough.

When you move up the chain, you almost always get told whoppers that you know are wrong. Occasionally you find somebody who whispers to you what's really going on, and offers some workaround to a problem that should be fixed, rather than worked around. I don't like the general dishonesty.

I'd note that this gradually has changed over the decades that Apple has been around. At one time, I sorta felt guilty when I asked about a minor issue and the Apple people gave more help than I thought my problem merited. No more. The institutional response is a polite version of, "Go away kid - you bother me." It gets worse as you go up that chain. (I solved the problem for us by dealing with an independent Apple dealer and service provider. Great service so far.)

Bringing this back to the initial topic of the thread, Apple has changed. Our perception of them needs to evolve, too.

 

[insomniac86]

And they wonder why they want them to be back at the office....

Complaining instead of working!

Oh come on now, they are delivering all the iOS 15 features on time…. Oh wait 🤔