Apple Employees Reportedly Petitioning Against Plan to Return to Office 3x Per Week

[Ethosik]

Congratulations, you’re an outlier. And maybe won’t be your entire life if any of those facts change - who knows.

Still, companies know when folks are being more productive and they seem to agree that you are. Apple does not agree the same is true with many of their employees. Otherwise they wouldn’t be picking a fight. Doesn’t change my argument.

Yes it does. You said this:

Don’t claim that there are fewer distractions.

You are speaking for everyone. My case shows not everyone deals with more distractions. Instead of making a general rule, how about it’s left to the individual? Based on their performance and work of the get to work from home every day.

 

[jlc1978]

This entire debate is not in whether Apple is in its rights to force employees to come to the building that Apple spent billions of dollars to construct. The argument is if the employees are in their rights to refuse and insist on the WFH model. It all boils down to who will suffer more if Apple refuses to accommodate.

True. Are employees willing to walk or do they value what they do at Apple more than WFH; and is Apple willing to suffer some attrition in moving to a hybrid model?

A lot of people working for Apple are very highly qualified, and other tech companies in the same or other geographies would love to hire them and pay them more than Apple does.

If pay is the motivator they will leave anyway. If hiring slows at other companies, as is happening at Apple, they may find their choices are limited.

The Apple employees know this, and the Apple management know this. If Cook wants to insist on everyone coming to the office, he absolutely has a right to do so. And the employees who object and know they can get this arrangement elsewhere will quit. Will Apple benefit from the employees quitting over this?

Who knows? Will employees get better deals elsewhere? If they feel they can, whatever Apple does is likley to only speed up the process of leaving.

My guess is if Apple really wants to keep someone they will come to an agreement; others they'll just let leave.

You think Apple will benefit. I think Apple will lose quite a few highly skilled employees and will be negatively affected.

Maybe. Maybe some like what they do and don't think they will find a better gig elsewhere, and don't value WFH as much. Only time will tell.

In the end, this is a free country, and the employees are showing Apple that they are not highly compensated slaves but rather free human beings. And I’m loving it.

People have always been free to vote with their feet. Those that moved from the valley to a cheaper cost of living area have a tough choice to make.

If companies decide they need to cut staff in teh future, ending WFH is one way to force the issue. It's a double edged sword.

The pandemic showed WFH works well in some cases, is OK in others, and 100% WFH in't feasible in others. A lot depends on the job and the situation.

You are speaking for everyone. My case shows not everyone deals with more distractions. Instead of making a general rule, how about it’s left to the individual? Based on their performance and work of the get to work from home every day.

Sure, but even then it depends on the situation. Facilitating a group strategy session or teaching a week long course? In person is magnitudes better. I've done both, and in person I can see, gauge, and react to teh audience a lot better than over Zoom. Plus, people aren't on their laptops and phones, "multi-tasking" and not working on the task at hand. I generally refuse to do that remotely because it simply doesn't work well for the work I do.

Programming? Yea, I can do a lot at home. Testing the display on real equipment and troubleshooting / refining with a team? A lot more effective in person, for me and my team, because we can talk, walk up and point to, tweek, test on the actual hardware and find out gotchas, etc, a lot quicker and easier than over Zoom.

There is also some stuff that simply cannot be taken home or sent home. Those cases require you to be there.

As you point out, there is no hard and fast rule. It's very individual and situational dependent.

 

[steve09090]

This entire debate is not in whether Apple is in its rights to force employees to come to the building that Apple spent billions of dollars to construct. The argument is if the employees are in their rights to refuse and insist on the WFH model. It all boils down to who will suffer more if Apple refuses to accommodate. A lot of people working for Apple are very highly qualified, and other tech companies in the same or other geographies would love to hire them and pay them more than Apple does. The Apple employees know this, and the Apple management know this. If Cook wants to insist on everyone coming to the office, he absolutely has a right to do so. And the employees who object and know they can get this arrangement elsewhere will quit. Will Apple benefit from the employees quitting over this? You think Apple will benefit. I think Apple will lose quite a few highly skilled employees and will be negatively affected. In the end, this is a free country, and the employees are showing Apple that they are not highly compensated slaves but rather free human beings. And I’m loving it.

You've totally missed the point of my post. But feel free to tell me what I should be talking about.

But firstly, this doesn’t just refer to multi billion dollar Apple Park only. They have more than one workplace.

But you are right. Some Karen’s will quit, and I’m sure Apple will be able to hire many other people in their place. You do know, don’t you, that Apple are still allowing people to looks after their cats 2 days a week don’t you? Plus some of the more highly rated employees (doing actually really important work for them) would have clauses in their contract that they must not work in the same field for another company for 12 months after they quit. I hear Starbucks is hiring…. Oh but they’ll have to leave their home. Build a drive through next to the kitchen??

But whatever. I personally couldn’t really care that some companies win or lose from this (Apple will be fine), and if people can get jobs working from their bedroom, then good luck to them.

Can you really imagine a workplace that needs the skills that the person provides to Apple, allowing their brand new employee who just quit over WFH to actually WFH? Of course they wouldn’t.

 

[IbisDoc]

Some of these hot takes are hilarious. This is all about employees wanting a silent raise - they get to sit on their zoom calls in their underwear with a shirt/blouse, with the call muted 95% of the time, not having to pay for gas or vehicle wear costs, lunches, wardrobes, etc, and still make the same amount. Because, you know, they work harder and are more productive at home.

Elon Musk is correct on this topic.

 

[Smearbrick]

Some of these hot takes are hilarious. This is all about employees wanting a silent raise - they get to sit on their zoom calls in their underwear with a shirt/blouse, with the call muted 95% of the time, not having to pay for gas or vehicle wear costs, lunches, wardrobes, etc, and still make the same amount. Because, you know, they work harder and are more productive at home.

Elon Musk is correct on this topic.

Yet another opinion from someone without a clue. Isn’t there a Gurman rumor you should be addressing?

 

[Rocko99991]

Some of these hot takes are hilarious. This is all about employees wanting a silent raise - they get to sit on their zoom calls in their underwear with a shirt/blouse, with the call muted 95% of the time, not having to pay for gas or vehicle wear costs, lunches, wardrobes, etc, and still make the same amount. Because, you know, they work harder and are more productive at home.

Elon Musk is correct on this topic.

All comes down to one word-entitlement.

 

[ericwn]

All comes down to one word-entitlement.

It comes down to times have changed. Apple survived well these last years.

 

[VidPro]

If working in the office was okay when you joined the company, and it isn’t now - find a new job.

Exactly! I've never seen so much crying.

Don't get me wrong, if you can get a job that allows you to work from home go for it. I think it's awesome. I did for years, but if your boss says you need to come to the office then you suck it up buttercups! LOL!

 

[avz]

Exactly! I've never seen so much crying.

Don't get me wrong, if you can get a job that allows you to work from home go for it. I think it's awesome. I did for years, but if your boss says you need to come to the office then you suck it up buttercups! LOL!

I guess this is what happens when your parents tell you: "First you must get a job and then you'll have a right to speak." Thus sending you a message: "You are not important and don't matter in a scheme of things."

 

[rotlex]

Your company has given people an incentive to move further away. Odd choice.

The problem is, if you didn't move during the past 2 1/2 years, you can't. I'm sure they have this figured out with legal somehow, but if I would request to move further away\out office NOW, the request would be denied. Yes, very, very odd.

 

[IbisDoc]

Yet another opinion from someone without a clue. Isn’t there a Gurman rumor you should be addressing?

Don’t know what that means, but “working” from home in a pre-covid working from work job should result in an immediate 20% pay cut, if it’s allowed at all.

 

[C00rDiNaT0r]

The problem is, if you didn't move during the past 2 1/2 years, you can't. I'm sure they have this figured out with legal somehow, but if I would request to move further away\out office NOW, the request would be denied. Yes, very, very odd.

There are other ways HR can amend their "past mistakes". Some companies could give you a promotion (read: title change and lots of added responsibilities and workload) with minimal raise, asking you to sign a new contract under specific terms in the fine print, that is much stricter and may have worse benefits than the past - they can use this opportunity to require your presence in office. Surely you can turn them down, but will you ever get a promotion afterwards?

 

[VidPro]

I guess this is what happens when your parents tell you: "First you must get a job and then you'll have a right to speak." Thus sending you a message: "You are not important and don't matter in a scheme of things."

No, I just know what it’s like to be a boss and have a boss.

 

[Rocko99991]

It comes down to times have changed. Apple survived well these last years.

Yes, people have become more entitled. Time for a wake up call.

 

[DENZIE]

It comes down to times have changed. Apple survived well these last years.

if working from home is so important to people, why wait for a pandemic to fight this hard for it. Times can change again.

 

[bunnicula]

How do you handle projects? You don’t. You’re at work. Just because it’s a distraction doesn’t mean you have to do it.

And the point still stands. If it was 3x more productive, employers would be thrilled to oblige.

Projects? The same way I do if I'm in an office. Employers are not trying to force this because productivity is low.

 

[DENZIE]

Exactly! I've never seen so much crying.

Don't get me wrong, if you can get a job that allows you to work from home go for it. I think it's awesome. I did for years, but if your boss says you need to come to the office then you suck it up buttercups! LOL!

I'd live in my van full-time if I could. Working towards that goal.

People seem to forget that you sign up to a job willingly. You need it more than it needs you.
And if you don't like rules, get into a leadership role, or go start your own business.

 

[VidPro]

I'd live in my van full-time if I could. Working towards that goal.

People seem to forget that you sign up to a job willingly. You need it more than it needs you.
And if you don't like rules, get into a leadership role, or go start your own business.

Agreed!

And they’re only asking for three days. Amazing!

 

[sirozha]

You've totally missed the point of my post. But feel free to tell me what I should be talking about.

But firstly, this doesn’t just refer to multi billion dollar Apple Park only. They have more than one workplace.

But you are right. Some Karen’s will quit, and I’m sure Apple will be able to hire many other people in their place. You do know, don’t you, that Apple are still allowing people to looks after their cats 2 days a week don’t you? Plus some of the more highly rated employees (doing actually really important work for them) would have clauses in their contract that they must not work in the same field for another company for 12 months after they quit. I hear Starbucks is hiring…. Oh but they’ll have to leave their home. Build a drive through next to the kitchen??

But whatever. I personally couldn’t really care that some companies win or lose from this (Apple will be fine), and if people can get jobs working from their bedroom, then good luck to them.

Can you really imagine a workplace that needs the skills that the person provides to Apple, allowing their brand new employee who just quit over WFH to actually WFH? Of course they wouldn’t.

Yes, I can imagine it.

It’s at least 50% of companies out there.

I quit the company I consulted for because they refused to continue WFH after my manger left and a bozo was hired to replace him. That was before the pandemic. I quit and was happy I did. They went 100% WFH shortly thereafter when the pandemic hit. They asked me to come back on 100% remote a year ago. I told them I wasn’t going to the office. They said they didn’t need me to. I’ve been consulting for them 100% remote. I do IT architecture, design, and implementation. No reason to be in t he office. It’s all 100% remote anyway. The boss was a bozo. He is still there. But he is no longer my boss. The director said I didn’t need to report to the bozo anymore. Now I report directly to the director. That’s how it works in the tech world with those who are worth a damn. Those who are not worth anything report to the bozos who drag them to the office to warm chairs.

Cheers!

 

[ericwn]

Yes, people have become more entitled. Time for a wake up call.

Yes well said, corporations need to adjust to the times.

 

[ericwn]

if working from home is so important to people, why wait for a pandemic to fight this hard for it. Times can change again.

Because people were only exposed to the wfh life once a pandemic hit as certain employers didn’t have the vision in advance that wfh might be a nice modern benefit to have. Old thinking, then encountered a pandemic.

 

[ericwn]

'I can't go back to work-I am scared for my health.'-Goes out every weekend clubbing and bar hopping and eating at fast food joints.

Assumption time as proper arguments are missing. Lazy people also work in offices where they spend ages just chatting nonsense.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

WFH is the new work benefit and it’s absolutely free for the company to provide. Hunch tells me that Apple just wants to get usage out of the new spaceship more than anything else.

My theory is that the bosses love to have that "I am the King" feeling that can only truly come from face to face contact. All that subtle submissive body language would be like a drug to some.

 

[steve09090]

Assumption time as proper arguments are missing. Lazy people also work in offices where they spend ages just chatting nonsense.

The amount of Crimes that get solved at the coffee urn is astounding. The regular sharing of information and processes can really really help productivity.

 

[ericwn]

The amount of Crimes that get solved at the coffee urn is astounding. The regular sharing of information and processes can really really help productivity.

I didn’t know that these Californian Apple folks also act as sheriffs. Of course then back into service. Besides that, I’ve worked with plenty companies that offer wfh and while you can’t fake the coffee drinking lazy office worker meeting that’s mostly for socialising you can implement modern day communication tools , have remote meetings etc.