Apple Executive Greg Joswiak Dismisses Planned Obsolescence as 'Craziest Thinking in the World'

[fairuz]

iOS: We care about your older devices.

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

What a great company...

(Sorry for the repost, but this is definitely relevant here.)

Throw away? My Macs both support the update, and I'm not installing it anyway just cause I don't want to bother, if it makes anyone feel better. It's only dangerous when you're more than 3 versions behind. By the time you're using an unsupported macOS, your computer is pretty darn old.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Please stop with the complaints about old Macs not working with Mojave. Think about this, Snow Leopard, released in 2009, only supported Apple computers from 2006 and above. At that time, that meant only computers released in the last 3 years were supported. The 2009 and 2010 computers are actually, however hard it may be to believe, actually getting old. Next year is 2019, 10 years since 2009. After a while, things have to stop being supported. Thats why the iPhone 3GS isn't getting iOS 12, it just won't. Now, I'm sure that the top of the line, MacBook Pro from 2011 can run Mojave, but the lower ones can't. And apples not going to say, "If you got the most expensive MBP in 2011, you still get updates. Thats Just absurd. Why isn't the G1 still supporting the newest version of Android? Just stop. High Sierra will still be supported for at least the next 5 years, its fine. Most of the MacBooks I see at school and work places are still running Mavericks or El Capitan. And, they run it just fine. And Mavericks was released 5 years ago. But most apps still support it.

 

[redheeler]

This isn't realistic in the slightest. No company is going to keep two enormous OS code bases just to support older hardware than can't run Metal.

Apple has had to support two major architecture transitions on the Mac, so don't tell me that maintaining some legacy code for one more release of the OS isn't a reasonable request. While I don't think they are doing this intentionally for planned obsolescence, they clearly see no financial incentive in continuing support on the MacOS side (vs. overcoming the lawsuits and bad publicity from updates slowing down older devices on the iOS side).

 

[jel888]

Um, welcome to computers and technology. I like having new stuff.

I do too; however that new stuff is building up waste in other countries and polluting land and water. And causing health and other issues for people worldwide. This isn't ecology bull, it's the truth and at some point everyone, in particular the privileged, need to take this into consideration. We need to develop a more sustainable business model, particularly in the IT industry and I would hope Apple would take the lead (as they have in so many areas like privacy). There are only so many TV's a person needs in their possession, and the same for computers, smartphones, etc. Everyone person having 10 models + of each of these items in a lifetime, with little to no recycling, and that for the majority of the people on the planet is not sustainable.

 

[Defthand]

Unconvincing. Planned or not, the lifecycle of Apple’s products has diminished from generation to generation. It’s not the device itself that deteriorates. However, when it breaks, it’s the inability to replace or repair parts—including batteries—affordably. It’s requiring owners to upgrade their hardware in order to continue using a basic utility/service whose back end changed (e.g. FaceTime). It’s pushing owners to embrace the latest OS version, knowing damn well it’s not optimized to run satisfactoryly on the earlier chips.

If this suspicion wasn’t real, it wouldn’t be a common perception. And Apple wouldn’t have announced that it’s next OS will focus on the problem.

 

[fairuz]

Considering the focus on supporting the same devices with iOS 12 and trying to debunk the claim of planned obsolescence, why not do the same with MacOS? I understand the apps ported over from iOS require Metal and wouldn't run on 2011 Macs, but the rest of the OS can be made to work on OpenGL.

The only other option was to fully support and use OpenGL and not have Metal at all, which I would have been happy with. But they can't be expected to support both.

 

[kruegdude]

Until now they were obviously going out of their way to takes steps with iOS updates to not optimize them for devices outside of the flagship model.

They got caught and this guy is a liar for saying otherwise.

And Apple cars will bring chemtrails to the streets.

 

[lkrupp]

iOS: We care about your older devices.

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

What a great company...

(Sorry for the repost, but this is definitely relevant here.)

Oh horse manure. Your pre-2012 Macs will run just fine for many years to come, just not on Mojave. Ever try running Windows 10 on a six or seven year old PC? I thought not. Six years is more than enough time for an operating system to continue support for legacy hardware. The hardware has advanced, the frameworks have advanced, and the more than six year old hardware is not up to the task of running next year’s macOS. What’s the problem here?

 

[cocky jeremy]

iOS: We care about your older devices.

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

What a great company...

(Sorry for the repost, but this is definitely relevant here.)

I suppose Chevy should still make parts and support a 1950 truck too, huh?

 

[kruegdude]

This is one of the biggest lines of BULL I’ve heard from an Apple executive. “Some people use their phones under a much heavier workload”.....YA THINK? Peoples whole lives are on their phones now and have been for many years. The “craziest thinking in the world” is that it’s taken all these years for Apple to properly optimize for all the devices out there. They were perfectly content going on stage and proving to us they could’ve been doing this for the last 5 years but chose not to since according to Greg, older iPhones “test great out the lab” compared to how people are actually using them.

Wow, just wow.

It’s more wow that you actually might believe your narrative.

 

[Radon87000]

Stuff and nonsense. Planned Obsolescence does exist.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

iOS: We care about your older devices.

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

What a great company...

(Sorry for the repost, but this is definitely relevant here.)

This might be hard for you to grasp, but, in 2028, when Apple releases whatever the OS is at the time, it will not support 2017 MBPs, iPhone X, or anything like that.

 

[Radon87000]

They also dropped S0 Watch after just 3 years. Yeah right

 

[Killa Aaron]

Apple has had to support two major architecture transitions on the Mac, so don't tell me that maintaining some legacy code for one more release of the OS isn't a reasonable request. While I don't think they are doing this intentionally for planned obsolescence, they clearly see no financial incentive in continuing support on the MacOS side (vs. overcoming the lawsuits and bad publicity from updates slowing down older devices on the iOS side).

I just wanted one more year too, im planning on buying a new 27" this fall/winter when Apple makes the 2018 iMac.

I suppose Chevy should still make parts and support a 1950 truck too, huh?

Not this reference again!, so... our computers are 68 years old?

 

[Michael Goff]

Stuff and nonsense. Planned Obsolescence does exist.

It could be planned obsolescence, or it could be that a newer OS does more. Whatever helps your pet theory, I guess.
[doublepost=1528305086][/doublepost]

Not this reference again!, so... our computers are 68 years old?

Technology moves fast.

 

[kruegdude]

I do too; however that new stuff is building up waste in other countries and polluting land and water. And causing health and other issues for people worldwide. This isn't ecology bull, it's the truth and at some point everyone, in particular the privileged, need to take this into consideration. We need to develop a more sustainable business model, particularly in the IT industry and I would hope Apple would take the lead (as they have in so many areas like privacy). There are only so many TV's a person needs in their possession, and the same for computers, smartphones, etc. Everyone person having 10 models + of each of these items in a lifetime, with little to no recycling, and that for the majority of the people on the planet is not sustainable.

Don’t throw them away then. Problem solved. As for saving the earth, I believe we’ve past the inflection point and it’s too late so enjoy life as much as you can now.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Yes, I agree. Though I don't own an older Mac device (that is it's a 2014 model, so seems like Apple doesn't see it as old yet), but I concur, old is relative. It's the status quo for manufacturers in just about every industry to push for purchasing the latest model versus making an older model still run like new. Used to be we were proud when you had a washing machine or car that was 20+ years old, so I find it strange that business model isn't the goal in the IT industry. And please don't tell me that in order to advance technologically you must go in the direction of designed obsolescence, I don't by that. Real innovation and ingenuity would be the opposite. Of course, what I'm suggesting would be a revolution today in the business world (impacting jobs, and in particular salaries).

Lets pretend your a CEO for a second. Your the CEO of Apple, lets say. Are you going to go out on that stage, and say, "You know, our 2011 MacBook Pros still work great. Im serious, go buy one used on Ebay."
No!!!! You are not. You will say, "This is the new 2018 MBP, it will be available next week. Thats just the way the business works. Samsung is not telling customers to go get a GS4, there telling them to get the brand new, fancy GS9.
And, Apple is probably the best at supporting old devices. A family member just had to upgrade there, barely 2 year old GS7, because it won't get updates anymore. Meanwhile, I have a family member still using his 2009 MBP, on the latest update it will receive, and a iPhone 5S running iOS 11.4. And, everything works great.

 

[jonnyb098]

It could be planned obsolescence, or it could be that a newer OS does more. Whatever helps your pet theory, I guess.
[doublepost=1528305086][/doublepost]

Technology moves fast.

iOS 12 does lots more too yet runs much better on 4 year old hardware......so not sure what your point is other than totally missing the point of why people are ticked off at Apple’s excuse rhetoric.

 

[swingerofbirch]

Apple: Consumers have always known that batteries are consumable parts.

Also Apple: We glue the batteries onto the top case of our MacBook Pros and inside our iPhones that are practically welded shut.

Also Apple: Even though we glue batteries to the casing of our products, we're eco-friendly because somewhere there's a robot named Liam

 

[Radon87000]

It could be planned obsolescence, or it could be that a newer OS does more. Whatever helps your pet theory, I guess.
[doublepost=1528305086][/doublepost]

Technology moves fast.

iOS 12 adds more to the iPhone then iOS 11 did to iOS 10. Then why does iOS 12 perform better? Because Apple focused on countering the notion of planned obsolescence. They obviously can't say this in the interview as it would tantamount to an admission that they were doing it at some point. I also don't like the throttle they shipped in iOS 11 for older devices without telling anyone

 

[redheeler]

Oh horse manure. Your pre-2012 Macs will run just fine for many years to come, just not on Mojave. Ever try running Windows 10 on a six or seven year old PC? I thought not. Six years is more than enough time for an operating system to continue support for legacy hardware. The hardware has advanced, the frameworks have advanced, and the more than six year old hardware is not up to the task of running next year’s macOS. What’s the problem here?

I have not run Windows 10 a 7-year-old PC, but I have run Linux Mint on an 11-year-old iMac, and it's surprising how nicely it runs with support for the majority of modern Linux applications.

Yes, throw away is an exaggeration, which I think should be apparent to anyone. But considering it takes Apple only a few months to stop supporting prior MacOS releases with Xcode, iWork, etc., and not being able to run the latest version of those apps causes problems which can only be solved (at least officially) by upgrading your hardware, it has some basis in fact.

 

[Dave245]

iOS: We care about your older devices.

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

What a great company...

(Sorry for the repost, but this is definitely relevant here.)

This is a joke......right? your talking about devices that are 7 years old and up, that is a very good time. My 2011 MacBook Pro has been a great machine but yea it's due an upgrade but it's lasted a lot longer than my previous Windows machines ever did. The simple answer is that those devices simply can't handle the OS features going forward, i'm certainly not disappointed that i've had 7 YEARS out of my MacBook Pro.

 

[KPandian1]

I would like to know that Apple will support its various OS with security updates for at least 10 years, simply because their hardware lasts longer than that by 25-100%, and it is shame to retire a working expensive device. Their hardware-software integration is still the best.

This way, Apple can expand its base of users as the newer devices are bought by new users, not just people re-upping their 4-5 year old ones. The old devices do not need to run the latest OS, they need only security updates. The newer users should be drawn to their eco by the reputation of how well Apple is supporting its products for such long periods, justifying their initial high price, the infamous "Apple Tax"!

Too many people on earth still not using Apple products.

 

[Dave245]

What a JOKE! Lmao

After almost everyone’s MacBook is now shot cause of mojave coming in the fall 2011 and below

Yea a 7 YEAR old laptop

 

[WestonHarvey1]

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

Yeah. Like when I couldn't run Windows 3.0 on my IBM XT which was only 6 years old at the time! That was total BS.