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I have two work thinkpqds, one has a touchscreen. I use it fairly often but, and here is what people miss out, in addition to the mouse/trackpad, not as a replacement for them.

Well with a typo suspect using touch screen keyboard /s lol.

Joking aside how often, what percent do you select or manipulate on screen vi touch vs mouse? Let’s add moving by drag and drop? Let’s now think of contextual menu. Notice these questions are in specific order as I’m sure many will know how much more of a failure using a touch screen for an OS never fully designed from the ground up for touch and instead is an after thought shows the lack of user experience or ease of use.
 
Well with a typo suspect using touch screen keyboard /s lol.

Joking aside how often, what percent do you select or manipulate on screen vi touch vs mouse? Let’s add moving by drag and drop? Let’s now think of contextual menu. Notice these questions are in specific order as I’m sure many will know how much more of a failure using a touch screen for an OS never fully designed from the ground up for touch and instead is an after thought shows the lack of user experience or ease of use.
The typo was from my iPad. Like I said, I don't use the touchscreen for everything, its just another tool for manipulating the computer.
 
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As much as I like Apple products, everyone knows this is nothing but lies.

They're more likely saving features for future products so that they motivate people to upgrade for years on end.
 
As much as I like Apple products, everyone knows this is nothing but lies.

They're more likely saving features for future products so that they motivate people to upgrade for years on end.
Probably, but to get FaceID in the MBP, they’re going to have to reduce the FaceID component thickness by 50% so I doubt it will be ready for a couple of years.
 
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Apple has some of the best face ID in the world. It is strange that they could not put it on a Mac.
It's only a matter of time. They had challenges with intel due to the need for secure enclave. They added TouchID by adding the T1/2 chip. Now that they use their own silicon, it would be easier to add FaceID. Now it's only marketing who decided when to trickle down that tech to entice people to upgrade in the next few years.
 
Okay but TouchID requires you to consciously change your hand placement. The screen is right in-front of your face so FaceID would require no thought to unlock, it would be instant..

I wish Apple was honest about this stuff rather than coming up with BS excuses. Supply chain issues, lack of space with current FaceID hardware, etc..
To me constantly looking a the screen would make Face ID a possible problem. If Face ID unlocks without an explicit action from my part, like on the phone where you need to both look at the phone and swipe up, it would be a possible security issue. If an action on your part is necessary, like, say, pressing a key, how would that be different than pressing on the Touch ID button? I'm sure this small concerns of mine will be addressed, and I agree that the empty space left on the notch is probably due to supply chain constraints than actual will to leave FaceID out.
 
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Addressing why the Mac lacks Face ID, Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac product marketing, told Stern that Touch ID is more convenient on the Mac since users' hands are already on the keyboard.

Compared to the iPads and iPhones that self-levitate and follow you floating in air, this makes a lot of sense!

Looking forward to hearing the words used to express how proud Apple is to introduce Face ID to MacBooks in a few years, just like how proud they were to bring the ports and other changes they banished 5 years ago when thinness was priority 1.

I owned a Surface Pro 3 for 30 days. Adding a touch screen would not be useful to me 95% of the time. I don't want it on Macs.
Two different animals. Why macos should not look more like iPadOS.
 
"Because the user's hands are already on the keyboard" is a lame excuse to not include Face ID in the new Macs. You also have a camera RIGHT THERE, aimed right at the user's face.

My hands might be on the keyboard, but I can't reach the Touch ID sensor with my fingers on the home row. I have to physically move my right hand to scan any one of its digits. I would argue that Face ID makes even more sense on a desktop than it does on a mobile device.

My guess is that Apple had originally planned for the new MacBook Pros to have Face ID, but supply chain issues meant the parts weren't available to include it in this fall's launch. Why else would they make that camera notch so big? I'd be willing to wager that Face ID will be added in the 2022 refresh.
 
To me constantly looking a the screen would make Face ID a possible problem. If Face ID unlocks without an explicit action from my part, like on the phone where you need to both look at the phone and swipe up, it would be a possible security issue. If an action on your part is necessary, like, say, pressing a key, how would that be different than pressing on the Touch ID button? I'm sure this small concerns of mine will be addressed, and I agree that the empty space left on the notch is probably due to supply chain constraints than actual will to leave FaceID out.

I agree on the possible security issue. You’re describing exactly the reason why it’s ALWAYS required to double-click the side button to authorize payments with Apple Pay on face id iphones, as opposed to touch id iphones where double-clicking the home button is actually optional.
 
It's only a matter of time. They had challenges with intel due to the need for secure enclave. They added TouchID by adding the T1/2 chip. Now that they use their own silicon, it would be easier to add FaceID. Now it's only marketing who decided when to trickle down that tech to entice people to upgrade in the next few years.
The challenges of putting Face ID in the MBP have nothing to do with who makes the chip. The iPhone 13’s Face ID components, and not just the front camera, are twice as thick as the new MBP’s entire lid so there is literally not enough space for the array until Apple can reduce component thickness by at least half.

Would you accept a MBP with a lid which is twice as thick just so you can have Face ID instead of Touch ID?
 
Wasn't Steve Jobs against putting touch screens on Macs like how he is against using a stylus during the unveiling of the iPhone in 2007? Or am I remembering it wrong?
Steve Jobs was against having a stylus that you had to use - remember that Palm Pilots (basically) required the use of a stylus for input, and there were smartphones like that too, at the time. He was saying, if the phone is presented as "here's your phone and here's the stylus you must use for input" then you've already lost the battle. I don't think he would have been against using a stylus (particularly on the iPad) for drawing and such, where it was appropriate, rather than required.

I don't recall if the "gorilla arm" argument against touch screens on Mac surfaced before or after he left us. Aside from the "I would never use it" argument, I think doing it properly would require rejiggering the size/spacing of SO MANY things in the Mac interface, to make them amenable to touch input, and this would have a detrimental effect on non-touch input (spacing all your elements further apart to accommodate fingers means less information on the screen, rearranging everything, etc.).
 
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Would you accept a MBP with a lid which is twice as thick just so you can have Face ID instead of Touch ID?
They could have made the MBP with a sizable camera bump on the back of the lid, to accommodate the flush-mounted FaceID camera. Can you imagine how well that'd go over with the same folk demanding FaceID on the Mac?

I still don't get why there's such a hard push for FaceID on the Mac, as opposed to TouchID, from some folks here. It seems pointless to me. Sure, it'd be neat. But you basically have to have your hands on the keyboard anyway, to do anything, and having TouchID in the corner is easy to reach but requires a positive action (reaching over there), thus massively cutting down on false positives. It neatly pairs authorization (you put your finger on the button) with authentication (the button reads your fingerprint), where FaceID basically gives continual authentication without any facility for authorization - leaving people to propose "well, you have to click an on-screen button in the cases where authorization would be necessary", but that category is larger than they think, it's not just payments. And that leads to UI inconsistencies - sometimes you just look, sometimes you have to look and click, versus TouchID where it's always the same action. And if you have to click anyway, sometimes, how is it better than TouchID again?
 
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I agree that in the current form factor that FaceID and touch screens are not necessary for 95% of people 95% of the time. However, they are dodging the real question as to why they aren’t creating MacBooks with different form factors like 2 in 1s for all the artists and note takers out there that want a computer that can be a productivity tablet.

In typical Apple style that question will never be answered for fear of Cannibalising iPad sales. Same as there won’t be a foldable iPhone for fear of cannibalizing iPad sales.
 
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They could have made the MBP with a sizable camera bump on the back of the lid, to accommodate the flush-mounted FaceID camera. Can you imagine how well that'd go over with the same folk demanding FaceID on the Mac?

I still don't get why there's such a hard push for FaceID on the Mac, as opposed to TouchID, from some folks here. It seems pointless to me. Sure, it'd be neat. But you basically have to have your hands on the keyboard anyway, to do anything, and having TouchID in the corner is easy to reach but requires a positive action (reaching over there), thus massively cutting down on false positives. It neatly pairs authorization (you put your finger on the button) with authentication (the button reads your fingerprint), where FaceID basically gives continual authentication without any facility for authorization - leaving people to propose "well, you have to click an on-screen button in the cases where authorization would be necessary", but that category is larger than they think, it's not just payments. And that leads to UI inconsistencies - sometimes you just look, sometimes you have to look and click, versus TouchID where it's always the same action. And if you have to click anyway, sometimes, how is it better than TouchID again?
From the IT Security person side of me it’s better to have TouchID only. TouchID requires a manual second factor authentication. FaceID has the possibility of automatically authorising something you don’t really want to as theres no conscious interaction to authorise
 
Can’t stand touch screen on a laptop or desktop! I have one in my work provided Surface, I tried it but couldn’t stand the screen smudges from my fingers. I just use a mouse.
 
I agree that in the current form factor that FaceID and touch screens are not necessary for 95% of people 95% of the time. However, they are dodging the real question as to why they aren’t creating MacBooks with different form factors like 2 in 1s for all the artists and note takers out there that want a computer that can be a productivity tablet.

In typical Apple style that question will never be answered for fear of Cannibalising iPad sales. Same as there won’t be a foldable iPhone for fear of cannibalizing iPad sales.
Different functions for different people. Personally, I have found computers trying to everything for everyone to be unreliable and come with compromises.
 
I don't know about the person you were responding to, but I certainly never used Widows Hello. I can guarantee you they're not using the same technology Apple does. Microsoft is depending on caveman technology, trying to use flat scan facial recognition from arbitrary webcams. There's no comparison, really.

My iPhone is currently on a stand a the same distance from me as my monitor. It's to the side of my monitor and even has a very slight tilt away from me. I touch the screen on the phone to wake it up and it FaceID unlocks almost instantly. Any FaceID built into the upper part of a laptop/iMac screen would be even more ideally placed.
Windows Hello does use about 90% of the same technique as FaceID including IR dot projection. It literally does not require a camera as the camera can be covered. Remember that FaceID is built on Kinect's technology.
 
I agree that in the current form factor that FaceID and touch screens are not necessary for 95% of people 95% of the time. However, they are dodging the real question as to why they aren’t creating MacBooks with different form factors like 2 in 1s for all the artists and note takers out there that want a computer that can be a productivity tablet.

In typical Apple style that question will never be answered for fear of Cannibalising iPad sales. Same as there won’t be a foldable iPhone for fear of cannibalizing iPad sales.
They've addressed this question countless times over the years, you (and me to some extent) don't like their answer.

From the IT Security person side of me it’s better to have TouchID only. TouchID requires a manual second factor authentication. FaceID has the possibility of automatically authorising something you don’t really want to as theres no conscious interaction to authorise
Holy cow, where are you that this is a real-world concern? I suggest you get out of wherever it is you live/work/play. ?
 
Holy cow, where are you that this is a real-world concern? I suggest you get out of wherever it is you live/work/play. ?
No he’s at least partially right. What he says is exactly the reason why, for example, on iphone face id always requires to double press the side button to authorize payments with Apple Pay. Without that, there would be lots of accidental unwanted payments made. That’s an example of why, if face id ever makes it to the mac, it will need to have some 2nd factor authentication such as pressing a key or some other action.
 
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Windows Hello does use about 90% of the same technique as FaceID including IR dot projection. It literally does not require a camera as the camera can be covered. Remember that FaceID is built on Kinect's technology.
Well, like many things, the devil is in the details, and taking that 90% claim at face value, it's clear that the other 10% makes all the difference.

Humans and chimpanzees are 99% DNA identical. Even a single percentage deviation can make a huge difference, let alone 10.
 
as if your face is anywhere but in front of the screen when you are using said laptop...

My older Macbook Pro is folded down andI use an external keyboard and larger monitor. I think many people do this when using the notebook at their desk.

But of course I could not use the fingerprint sensor if it had one if the cover were foldered down
 
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I owned a Surface Pro 3 for 30 days. Adding a touch screen would not be useful to me 95% of the time. I don't want it on Macs.

To be completely fair, 30 days isn’t a very lengthy test. But on my Windows machines at work my office had laptops that were touchscreens, and none of the engineers liked them. Out of the people using these touch screens I was the only one that owned a Mac at home, but nobody there liked those computers. They lasted about 18 months and are now gone.
 
Okay but TouchID requires you to consciously change your hand placement. The screen is right in-front of your face so FaceID would require no thought to unlock, it would be instant..

I wish Apple was honest about this stuff rather than coming up with BS excuses. Supply chain issues, lack of space with current FaceID hardware, etc..
Alright, so "think about this stuff" some more. Face ID on iOS requires a hardware interaction — your double-pressing a physical button on the device — for certain sensitive actions, like Apple Pay payments and App Store purchases. Do you want your Mac automatically authorizing transactions for you just because you're in front of it? Can't realistically add a button in software, because then it's open to attack via other software — macOS allows apps to move the mouse cursor and simulating clicks.

Or, if you're going to have to move your hand to touch a physical button anyway…why not just keep Touch ID?
 
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