Apple Executives Speak on the 'Low-Cost Phone', Android's Fragmentation Issues

[elistan]

I understand that Google Play Services has it's own APIs delivered independently of the OS, but surely there are OS specific APIs as well. No? If not, what's the purpose of incrementing the API version with each new release?

From what I can tell, after doing yet more reading, is that Google Play Services is the gateway to Google's walled garden. For example:

• Google Maps API
• Play Games API
• In App Billing
• Google+ Sign-In
• etc. See linked pic below from ars.

The Framework APIs, however, handle things like button drawing, touch interface, notifications. And those, via the Support Library, can be built in to each individual app. (I assume there are app size implications to this.)

So if Google introduces some cool animated transparent accelerometer-aware scrollbar thingy, it'll be part of the Framework API and considered a part of the Android OS. But it'll also likely be available to developers as part of the Support Library, which includes the code for the scrollbar thingy in the app itself rather than having to rely on the OS doing it. (And like the above app size implication I speculate about above, I assume there are performance implications for this as well.)

----------

“We never had an objective to sell a low-cost phone,” says Cook. “Our primary objective is to sell a great phone and provide a great experience, and we figured out a way to do it at a lower cost.”

Cook never said that??

FWasan't the iPhone 5C origionally said for the China market?

Said by whom? Random internet tech bloggers and forum posters? Yes. Apple? No, not that I know of.

Didn't Cook even say "We want a more affordable iPhone they can aford."

No, not that I've been able to find. Do you have a link to a press release or interview?

 

[apolloa]

iOS 4 brought folders (pretty essential for organizing apps), backgrounds (which you certainly must have "seen"), FaceTime, and multitasking APIs.

iOS 5 brought more multitasking APIs, iMessages (critical for me, at least), Reminders, Newsstand (hooray?), and Siri.

iOS 6 brought Apple Maps (hooray? -- but at least you saw it!), FaceTime over 3G, and... various bits here and there. Almost certainly the least impressive update.

But yeah, if you haven't seen anything different, you haven't been paying too close attention. So, one vote for "fragmentation doesn't matter"!

Folders and backgrounds, well yeah I forgot about that screw up because I had several phones before the iPhone was even launched where I could change the background. Hmm reminded me why I thought the original iPhone was an utter joke. And folders? I never used them but assumed that as the iPhone was 'supposed' to be a smartphone it had that, all other OS's did?
Siri, yeah right hardly anything to talk about, especially as it struggles with certain accents still. Multitasking API's how would anyone notice that when the iPhone hasn't really done multitasking correctly, maybe iOS7 does, News Stand, yeah a pain in the ass icon that Apple refused you the ability to move without struggling! And was that also not one of the things that helped it to fix book prices as the recent court case has stated?

iOS6, you really want to highlight maps as a feature? The removal of something that worked fine to replace it with something totally broken out the box? And Jesus, facetime FACETIME OVER 3G! We had video calling over 3G about THREE YEARS BEFORE THE FIRST IPHONE WAS EVEN PUT ON SALE EVER! FACT!

So yeah, I can pretty much tear apart your claims their mate, sure their were improvements Apple made, but NONE were new or unique in any way shape or form. Perhaps I should have asked what exclusive features did the iOS updates bring?

 

[samcraig]

Said by whom? Random internet tech bloggers and forum posters? Yes. Apple? No, not that I know of.



No, not that I've been able to find. Do you have a link to a press release or interview?

Apparently eluded to Goldman Sachs as per the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2277981/Apple-boss-Tim-Cook-hints-cheaper-iPhone.html


'That said, if you look at what we've done to appeal to people that are price sensitive — lower price of iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, in most recent quarter, not enough supply of iPhone 4 - surprised us.'

He added: 'We are making moves to make things more affordable', but insisted Apple still wanted to make something 'great'.

 

[Renzatic]

Basically, they want to move all the important parts of the OS to closed source.

Not closed source, no. What they want to do is set it up so that point releases are used for lower level changes directly relating to the OS itself, while userland improvements can be delivered through Play.

Google will never be able to set things up so that you never have to worry about not having access to the latest version of Android. But they can mitigate it so everyone can still benefit from whatever new software features Google comes out with no matter what version they're running.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

The only thing people seem to be looking at with "fragmentation" is the OS version. In reality the OS version isn't the whole story with Android. Most of Androids core apps and services are moved/moving to the Play Store allowing Google to update these core apps/services without a major OS update.

"We’ve talked about this before, but it bears repeating. Google has solved this problem in the form of Google Play services. Google Play services is an app that is pushed to any Android device using 2.2 or higher and contains the latest Google services APIs. In other words, 98.5% of Android devices are running the newest APIs thanks to Google Play services."

http://androidandme.com/2013/07/opinions/tackling-the-fragmentation-myth/

So fragmentation really is split personality and one of the two is being bashed at.

Shhhhh...you'll ruin one of Timmy's core arguments!

This is why people who defend Apple to the death are called iSheep. Because they take what Jobs or Cook say (or any one of the other snarky Apple execs) and spew it for YEARS. They just follow right along without thinking for themselves or, god forbid, actually doing some research of their own.

In reality, they have no clue what they're talking about. The word "fragmentation" would've never entered their lexicon unless Jobs stood up there on stage and said it.

The fact of the matter is, Google/Android have a way keeping nearly every phone updated to the latest core software, and that's by placing crucial updates directly to Google Play. Every time you update Google Play Services, you're in effect updating the OS. In the Jobs/Cook narrow minded world, though, we can only look at one number...OS version.

This is where Android gets it right. Find a crucial bug or something that needs fixing right away? Simply update Google Play Services and push it out to all devices. If Apple finds something along those lines? We'll get it to you when we get it to you. Whether that's a "point" update that takes a month to push out or the annual update of the entire OS, you just have to deal with it. Oh, you don't like things about iOS 7? Well, we're planning on some changes...but you'll have to wait a year to get them.

The sooner you guys stop being drones for everything Jobs/Cook says, the more informed you're going to be. Think for yourselves for once, will you?

 

[elistan]

Folders and backgrounds, well yeah I forgot about that screw up because I had several phones before the iPhone was even launched where I could change the background. Hmm reminded me why I thought the original iPhone was an utter joke. And folders? I never used them but assumed that as the iPhone was 'supposed' to be a smartphone it had that, all other OS's did?
Siri, yeah right hardly anything to talk about, especially as it struggles with certain accents still. Multitasking API's how would anyone notice that when the iPhone hasn't really done multitasking correctly, maybe iOS7 does, News Stand, yeah a pain in the ass icon that Apple refused you the ability to move without struggling! And was that also not one of the things that helped it to fix book prices as the recent court case has stated?

iOS6, you really want to highlight maps as a feature? The removal of something that worked fine to replace it with something totally broken out the box? And Jesus, facetime FACETIME OVER 3G! We had video calling over 3G about THREE YEARS BEFORE THE FIRST IPHONE WAS EVEN PUT ON SALE EVER! FACT!

So yeah, I can pretty much tear apart your claims their mate, sure their were improvements Apple made, but NONE were new or unique in any way shape or form. Perhaps I should have asked what exclusive features did the iOS updates bring?

You are confused. Your original that CptnJustc was responding to was about comparing new iOS releases to old iOS releases. And now you're comparing iOS to non-Apple smartphones? Yes, perhaps you should have been clearer in your original post.

 

[marksman]

Basically, they want to move all the important parts of the OS to closed source.

Yeah while creating a secondary os on top of android itself. Nothing potentially limiting or resource intensive about stacking oses on top of each other to get compatibility lol.

It would be like apple saying "we solved fragmentation. Everyone will now use java to do everything on top of IOS."

 

[Renzatic]

Yeah while creating a secondary os on top of android itself. Nothing potentially limiting or resource intensive about stacking oses on top of each other to get compatibility lol.

OLOL!

...that isn't how it works.

 

[elistan]

Apparently eluded to Goldman Sachs as per the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2277981/Apple-boss-Tim-Cook-hints-cheaper-iPhone.html


'That said, if you look at what we've done to appeal to people that are price sensitive — lower price of iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, in most recent quarter, not enough supply of iPhone 4 - surprised us.'

He added: 'We are making moves to make things more affordable', but insisted Apple still wanted to make something 'great'.

Ah! Very interesting, thanks.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

Lol.

Talk about being a drone.

You mean, as I sit here typing this on my iPhone 5? Hmm? Kinda kills your argument, doesn't it there chief?

No, I'm OS-agnostic. I call BS when I see it and I'm sick of Apple lovers spewing the same, outdated crap they've been spewing for years and not knowing what the heck they're talking about.

Android and iOS are BOTH incredible OS's. WP8, on the other hand...

 

[CptnJustc]

So yeah, I can pretty much tear apart your claims their mate, sure they were improvements Apple made, but NONE were new or unique in any way shape or form. Perhaps I should have asked what exclusive features did the iOS updates bring?

Well, since your original claim was that Apple didn't make any visible changes outside of security and bug patches, you contradict that in your first sentence, and end by shifting ground to a different claim, I'm skeptical about your ability to tear apart my claims.

I am sensing that you are not a fan of Apple's changes! But changes there were.

 

[apolloa]

You are confused. Your original that CptnJustc was responding to was about comparing new iOS releases to old iOS releases. And now you're comparing iOS to non-Apple smartphones? Yes, perhaps you should have been clearer in your original post.

Hence why I stated that! and not one of his points is unique to Apple.

Well, since your original claim was that Apple didn't make any visible changes outside of security and bug patches, you contradict that in your first sentence, and end by shifting ground to a different claim, I'm skeptical about your ability to tear apart my claims.

I am sensing that you are not a fan of Apple's changes! But changes there were.

Well, here's some links about 3G for you to chew on, but hey if you want to believe Apple invented everything first be my guest, oh and are you going to claim that Maps worked fine with no flaws just like Google Maps did? Go on I dare you..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_6630
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2856127.stm

Seriously mate, take your head out of Apples behind because you have a seriously blinkered view if you don't think my points were valid. By all means be an Apple fan, but don't for one second think they invent anything!
The only REALLY innovative things Apple has ever done was the first iPod and iTunes, the first iPad and the upcoming Mac Pro and even then people would disagree.

 

[billystlyes]

They should start worrying. iOS 7 is a heaping pile of crap. The phones are yesterday's news with small screens. They can't even make the transition to Haswell in a timely matter. The stores are losing momentum and people mostly go there for repairs and returns. Why should we kid ourselves? Things are not well in Apple land. It's time for Cook to leave...

 

[elistan]

The fact of the matter is, Google/Android have a way keeping nearly every phone updated to the latest core software, and that's by placing crucial updates directly to Google Play. Every time you update Google Play Services, you're in effect updating the OS. In the Jobs/Cook narrow minded world, though, we can only look at one number...OS version.

It's worth keeping in mind, however, that there are some very, very large aspects of Android that cannot be updated via Google Play Services. TCP stack. Memory handling.

This is where Android gets it right. Find a crucial bug or something that needs fixing right away? Simply update Google Play Services and push it out to all devices. If Apple finds something along those lines? We'll get it to you when we get it to you. Whether that's a "point" update that takes a month to push out or the annual update of the entire OS, you just have to deal with it. Oh, you don't like things about iOS 7? Well, we're planning on some changes...but you'll have to wait a year to get them.

Wait - why is the user waiting on Apple to push an update any different from a user waiting on Google to push an update? In both cases, the user "just has to deal with it."

Sure, Apple would have to wait for people to update their phone rather than the update being forced on the users, but history has shown that updates that Apple publishes get adopted rather quickly. Either way, with Google or with Apple, the user still has to wait. It's not like users can patch Google Play Services themselves.

 

[thasan]

Folders and backgrounds, well yeah I forgot about that screw up because I had several phones before the iPhone was even launched where I could change the background. Hmm reminded me why I thought the original iPhone was an utter joke. And folders? I never used them but assumed that as the iPhone was 'supposed' to be a smartphone it had that, all other OS's did?
Siri, yeah right hardly anything to talk about, especially as it struggles with certain accents still. Multitasking API's how would anyone notice that when the iPhone hasn't really done multitasking correctly, maybe iOS7 does, News Stand, yeah a pain in the ass icon that Apple refused you the ability to move without struggling! And was that also not one of the things that helped it to fix book prices as the recent court case has stated?

iOS6, you really want to highlight maps as a feature? The removal of something that worked fine to replace it with something totally broken out the box? And Jesus, facetime FACETIME OVER 3G! We had video calling over 3G about THREE YEARS BEFORE THE FIRST IPHONE WAS EVEN PUT ON SALE EVER! FACT!

So yeah, I can pretty much tear apart your claims their mate, sure their were improvements Apple made, but NONE were new or unique in any way shape or form. Perhaps I should have asked what exclusive features did the iOS updates bring?

Bold and cap? how old are you?

 

[mabhatter]

Hey Tim how's your stock portfolio looking? You should get an award for the fastest way to lose 40 billion in market share in 2 days.

Ya we do think you are worried Lol

Stock price has nothing to do with actually MAKING MONEY anymore. Tim Cook knows that. Apple is so fake inflated as a "cult of Steve Jobs" even a year after he's gone. It would be foolish of anybody to think Apple stock is going up... Even though they are making GIANT BAGS OF PROFIT, its not worth as much as the HYPE Steve could generate.

Tim will be just fine as long as the majority of stockholders are the ones holding since $300 or $400 and are still fantastically richer.

 

[apolloa]

Bold and cap? how old are you?

Obviously older than the poster I was replying to in order to know my history of phones and 3G video calling!

Oh yes how DARE I use caps and bold in a forum! Silly me T

 

[thasan]

They should start worrying. iOS 7 is a heaping pile of crap. The phones are yesterday's news with small screens. They can't even make the transition to Haswell in a timely matter. The stores are losing momentum and people mostly go there for repairs and returns. Why should we kid ourselves? Things are not well in Apple land. It's time for Cook to leave...

u wanna apply mate? not sure why u think ios is a pile of crap? almost every news outlet (except the google paid ones) are very positive. ive been using it for the last 20 ish hours. near perfect for me even on 4s! anyway, hope you jump off ship, stop coming here so that u dont get upset with ios 8 and be happy in the android land.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

It's worth keeping in mind, however, that there are some very, very large aspects of Android that cannot be updated via Google Play Services. TCP stack. Memory handling.



Wait - why is the user waiting on Apple to push an update any different from a user waiting on Google to push an update? In both cases, the user "just has to deal with it."

Sure, Apple would have to wait for people to update their phone rather than the update being forced on the users, but history has shown that updates that Apple publishes get adopted rather quickly. Either way, with Google or with Apple, the user still has to wait. It's not like users can patch Google Play Services themselves.

Point taken on your first point. It's not perfect, but it does work well.

And yes, Android users do still have to wait, but my point was that the wait is much shorter. Apple usually takes FOREVER to push out an update. Plus, the fact that none of the core services are on the App Store means they have to push a full update in order to correct the smallest thing.

We're in agreement here...I'm just saying the wait is shorter with Android.

 

[CptnJustc]

Well, here's some links about 3G for you to chew on, but hey if you want to believe Apple invented everything first be my guest, oh and are you going to claim that Maps worked fine with no flaws just like Google Maps did? Go on I dare you..

Oh, brother. You asked if there were any changes other than bug fixes or security updates in iOS updates. I provided some examples. Zero about saying "Apple invented everything first."

 

[thasan]

Obviously older than the poster I was replying to in order to know my history of phones and 3G video calling!

Oh yes how DARE I use caps and bold in a forum! Silly me T

just common courtesy..at least thats the norm where i live in. u dont get paid or earn bonus marks being rude
enjoy the forum mate!
be happy with ur choice

 

[elistan]

Hence why I stated that! and not one of his points is unique to Apple.



Well, here's some links about 3G for you to chew on, but hey if you want to believe Apple invented everything first be my guest, oh and are you going to claim that Maps worked fine with no flaws just like Google Maps did? Go on I dare you..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_6630
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2856127.stm

Seriously mate, take your head out of Apples behind because you have a seriously blinkered view if you don't think my points were valid. By all means be an Apple fan, but don't for one second think they invent anything!
The only REALLY innovative things Apple has ever done was the first iPod and iTunes, the first iPad and the upcoming Mac Pro and even then people would disagree.

Gah. Talk about a classic case of setting up straw men to burn down. Not a single thing you've posted has any relevance to anything CptnJustc has said.

Here's your original post:

And apart from iOS 7, please pray do tell us all what EXACTLY those iOS updates have changed? Because I'm buggered if I have ever seen anything different? All the iOS updates ever did was patch bugs and security risks!

CptnJustc's point was that each iOS update DID bring lots of changes to iOS, beyond patches. Doesn't matter whether other operating systems already had those features, the fact is that as iOS has been updated over the years, iOS has had many changes.

If your point in the above post was something like "No iOS update introduced a feature that wasn't already present in a different OS," then you should have worded your post better.

 

[apolloa]

Oh, brother. You asked if there were any changes other than bug fixes or security updates in iOS updates. I provided some examples. Zero about saying "Apple invented everything first."

Ah, so now your trying to backtrack your statement, 'I'm skeptical about your ability to tear apart my claims'

Fair enough, you know I am right, great!

 

[mabhatter]

"we figured out a way to do it at a lower cost"

At a lower manufacturing cost to Apple, but they certainly didn't pass that savings on to the customer. Really, he's claiming the 5c is "lower cost" when it sells for the same price as previous year old models?

Since when does a company lower prices if NOBODY IS ASKING THEM TOO? Sure, Apple probably saved bucks on that plastic case, more than that, the fancy aluminum one is probably too time consuming to make in mass-market volumes. By changing the case this time around, they make the 5S look like a more expensive (and gotta have it) item. THAT is good business! Making MORE MONEY on things you already got.

That said, 5S is a clear shot at the future of iOS devices 2-3 years out. Apple is clearly pushing iOS devices into the low-end x86 markets. Apple is a 5-year mission kind of company, one slow product doesn't derail the train because they have discipline.

 

[apolloa]

just common courtesy..at least thats the norm where i live in. u dont get paid or earn bonus marks being rude
enjoy the forum mate!
be happy with ur choice

What do you mean by 'my choice'? Or are you going to now assume I have an Android phone?

Gah. Talk about a classic case of setting up straw men to burn down. Not a single thing you've posted has any relevance to anything CptnJustc has said.

Here's your original post:


CptnJustc's point was that each iOS update DID bring lots of changes to iOS, beyond patches. Doesn't matter whether other operating systems already had those features, the fact is that as iOS has been updated over the years, iOS has had many changes.

If your point in the above post was something like "No iOS update introduced a feature that wasn't already present in a different OS," then you should have worded your post better.

Are you CptnJustc brother or something? Seriously if your going to quote me why are you even mentioning another poster? Can you lot not speak for yourselves?
And no, considering the history of smartphones iOS updates were not special.