Apple Explains Why It Terminated Epic's Latest Developer Account

[jz0309]

I don't know if you're aware of this, but decisions made by a United States court mean nothing in the European Union. Apple can only take measures that are "strictly necessary and proportionate" and "duly justified by the gatekeeper" which simply isn't the case here. Apple's decision will be blocked without hesitation, since there's no evidence that Epic Games endangers "the integrity of the hardware or operating system"

is there a EU App Store that developers sign up for? no.
if the EU wants to go as far as forcing Apple to give Epic a developer account because of the DMA, that's fine, it will go through the courts for years ....

 

[Kevin2055]

Epic game is so annoying. Just go away.

 

[Mescagnus]

We're talking about the EU, not the US. Just as EU law is largely irrelevant to US user, so are US court finding irrelevant to EU laws.

Epic still needs an agreement with Apple, an US corporation, and US courts have determined Apple doesn't need to enter into any contract with Epic and also has the right to terminate them. The EU laws are irrelevant for Apple and Epic's business agreement, which EU cannot force Apple to enter into.

 

[B-Mc-C]

the fact people applaud apple for just flexing their obscene control over the market is rather absurd; this is NOT in YOUR best interest _at all_ and just because you dislike [insert company being dicked over] doesn't mean you'll be pleased with [whom in power] does it to [yet another company] especially once it's one _you_ care about.

Which, FYI, is all of them, because without competition YOUR prices go up.

Stop cheering for TRILLION dollar companies.

Apple is the company I care about. 😎 Just buy some shares if you are worried about prices going up, and then you can be cheering too.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

If that was the case Apple wouldn’t be getting hit with billion dollar fines

A fine that hasn't been tested in court yet. Vestager has a history of dolling out fines that lead to nothing when appealed before a court of law.

 

[MilaM]

So can I finally cross out Unreal Engine as a cross platform game engine now? Game developers who rely upon that game engine are either going to stop making games for Apple devices or switch to Unity or something else. Given the small market for games in iDevices and the amount of work necessary to switch to a different game engine...Bye bye gaming on iDevices. I hope it doesn't spread to Macs too, although I think it will.

Gaming is dead on any Apple platform. It was already a small niche before, and I think most publishers will now think twice if it's wort the effort.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Also stated they terminated it because of Tim Sweeney’s criticism of Apple’s implementation of DMA rules. Which doesn’t sit right.

Tim Sweeney is essentially saying, “We breached our contractual obligations before, AND WE’LL DO IT AGAIN!” They should probably try communicating like someone that values contractual obligations. Or, I mean… not.

 

[j26]

We're talking about the EU, not the US. Just as EU law is largely irrelevant to US user, so are US court finding irrelevant to EU laws.

Not entirely. Judges will take foreign judgments into account. It happens all the time. I've had occasion to dig into American, Australian, English, South African and Indian judgments in the context of my work in Ireland.
However European judges are not bound by foreign judgements. They are instructive and advisory.

 

[MLVC]

is there a EU App Store that developers sign up for? no.
if the EU wants to go as far as forcing Apple to give Epic a developer account because of the DMA, that's fine, it will go through the courts for years ....

The Alternative Terms Addendum for Apps in the EU is governed by Irish law.

 

[jz0309]

We're talking about the EU, not the US. Just as EU law is largely irrelevant to US user, so are US court finding irrelevant to EU laws.

does the DMA or any EU law say that Apple has to give Epic a developer account? as long as that doesn't happen, Epic won't get a developer account ...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Gaming is dead on any Apple platform. It was already a small niche before, and I think most publishers will now think twice if it's wort the effort.

To clarify most publishers that plan to intentionally breach their contractual obligations will now think twice if it’s worth the effort. Currently, I think that list of publishers includes Epic Games… and Epic Games.

 

[jakey rolling]

I take your point, but it is possibly only valid because of Epic’s previous behaviour. I think it is a stretch to say that Apple would ban any company seeking to develop their own AppStore. They are specifically banning Epic because of past behaviour.

Epic's "previous behaviour" was a violation of a contractual term which is very likely now illegal under the DMA. I expect that the EU will be asking Apple to explain exactly what part of the developer agreement Epic violated in the past, and will also expect Apple to provide an argument as to how that part of the agreement complies with the DMA. If Apple cannot provide a valid explanation, then it will probably find that pointing to "past behaviour" isn't going to be a valid legal justification for terminating Epic's account.

 

[bsolar]

Do you know how completely insane it is to say, "You have to do business with anyone and everyone that wants to do business with you."

The DMA does not in itself require anyone to enter in a business relationship with anyone else: the DMA requires the Gatekeeper to allow access to the platform and that's it. It does not state it needs to be through a business relationship.

Apple wants to link access to a business relationship, but that's Apple's decision and it's Apple's burden to make that work in a way which is compliant with the DMA. Note that in other platforms this business relationship is not required, e.g. on MacOS you don't need to enter a business relationship with Apple to be able to provide software to MacOS users.

I'm quite sure Epic does not want to enter any business relationship with Apple (and vice-versa of course): the question is whether Apple should be able to require said business relationship as condition to access the platform and which conditions they can impose while still being in compliance with the DMA.

 

[Ethosik]

Which turned out to be wholly correct as Apple moved on from optical drives, as did most other computer makers, and now even the gaming consoles are removing them or just having them as an "add-on".

Just like with flash, we know this NOW. But it was a highly discussed topic back in the day. I also was wanting a blu ray drive. I didn’t like a lot of Steve’s attitude towards things was my point. And to say this all started with Tim Cook is just false.

 

[9059737]

Lol. You mean app distribution on Apple's platform and Apple's devices on Apple's operating system. No one is entitled to distribute anything on their platform.

It's not Apple's device, it's my device. If Apple or Microsoft tried to control app distribution on macOS or Windows in the same way Apple is doing on iOS, people would be up in arms. Just because Apple has normalized this insane level of control doesn't make it acceptable.

 

[jz0309]

The Alternative Terms Addendum for Apps in the EU is governed by Irish law.

and what does that law say? that Apple has to give Epic or anyone else for that matter a developer account?

 

[Zest28]

Gaming is dead on any Apple platform. It was already a small niche before, and I think most publishers will now think twice if it's wort the effort.

Please, Apple is the 3rd largest gaming company by revenue. Apple even makes more money than Microsoft from gaming.

iOS developers love iOS as a gaming platform with so much money on this platform.

 

[jinnj]

Is Fortnite even that much of a thing anymore? I don't see much reference to it.

It's not on iOS which is why Epic decided to make his move. With the support on Tencent (see WeChat, Spotify and others), they pulled this BS since the majority of iOS Fortnite players eventually move to a PC.

 

[jakey rolling]

1. An Xbox is also a general purpose computer by the textbook definition.

If you really don't understand the difference, there isn't really much more that anyone can say.

2. Calling something a general purpose computer doesn't have any legal relevancy.

Fine. Then I guess the EU can go after Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo next if they think that the game console ecosystem is the same as the smartphone ecosystem. That really isn't very relevant to this discussion anyhow.

 

[MilaM]

To clarify most publishers that plan to intentionally breach their contractual obligations will now think twice if it’s worth the effort. Currently, I think that list of publishers includes Epic Games… and Epic Games.

The business case to port games on Apple's platforms was always very weak. The way Apple is treating developers in general, is just the proverbial straw.

 

[Will Co]

Epic's "previous behaviour" was a violation of a contractual term which is very likely now illegal under the DMA. I expect that the EU will be asking Apple to explain exactly what part of the developer agreement Epic violated in the past, and will also expect Apple to provide an argument as to how that part of the agreement complies with the DMA. If Apple cannot provide a valid explanation, then it will probably find that pointing to "past behaviour" isn't going to be a valid legal justification for terminating Epic's account.

Maybe. But I very much doubt there is any statute, DMA or otherwise, that the EU can use to compel Apple to do business with Epic. So your point might well be academic. Without a developer account, Epic is screwed.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Gaming is dead on any Apple platform. It was already a small niche before, and I think most publishers will now think twice if it's wort the effort.

Apple sure better work on "all their own gaming everything" for things like the AVP

Don't think many many many developers, large and small, are taking note of their actions ... and will be telling them to buzz off and reap what they sow.

 

[bsolar]

Very true. But as others have said, the EU cannot compel Apple to do business with Epic. They’re choosing not to and I very much doubt Epic can do a damned thing about it.

That would be a significant imposition on Apple's freedom of contract, but again, it's Apple's decision to link access to the platform to a business relationship. The EU might find that this imposition is not compliant to the DMA in the first place.

 

[ksj1]

Epic's "previous behaviour" was a violation of a contractual term which is very likely now illegal under the DMA. I expect that the EU will be asking Apple to explain exactly what part of the developer agreement Epic violated in the past, and will also expect Apple to provide an argument as to how that part of the agreement complies with the DMA. If Apple cannot provide a valid explanation, then it will probably find that pointing to "past behaviour" isn't going to be a valid legal justification for terminating Epic's account.

LOL, you mean the decisions from the US Federal District Judge, and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals? I'm willing to bet Apple has them on hand.

 

[gatorvet96]

It's not Apple's device, it's my device. If Apple or Microsoft tried to control app distribution on macOS or Windows in the same way Apple is doing on iOS, people would be up in arms. Just because Apple has normalized this insane level of control doesn't make it acceptable.

If they could start over they would. Why do people have to buy virus/spam/spyware programs for those computers. Because the sideloading leads to major security risks. This is NOT a problem with iOS and I am grateful for that.