Apple Extends Non-Disclosure to App Store Rejection Letters

[john7jr]

Again, the effect could be negligible, but Apple has the right to reject something that could hurt their business model, regardless of the magnitude.

No, they don't. At least, not arbitrarily. They cannot, as the iPhone manufacturer, use their own leverage to prohibit apps that might duplicate non-Apple-patented technologies on the iPhone that might compete with Apple's own. They lost the ability to use that argument when they previously allowed calculator and notes apps which obviously duplicate features without question which set a precedent to all apps that followed them. Apple created the expectation that duplication of functionality was allowed, and then selectively revoked it.

Now they just appear to be using their leverage to control competition. It's not hard to see how this would play out in court.

 

[dwsolberg]

NDA bad decision

It seems to me that Apple's cloud of secrecy is not stopping the App Store from having tons of fun and innovative applications. I think this secrecy has the potential to cause problems, but so far as a consumer I don't see the problem yet.

I think making a robust application kit along with a store where it's possible to make $250,000 in 60 days is probably going to outweigh the secrecy problems.

Companies make bad decisions. I think this is one example of a bad decision by Apple, but I don't think it's all doom and gloom.

 

[w00master]

It seems to me that Apple's cloud of secrecy is not stopping the App Store from having tons of fun and innovative applications. I think this secrecy has the potential to cause problems, but so far as a consumer I don't see the problem yet.

I think making a robust application kit along with a store where it's possible to make $250,000 in 60 days is probably going to outweigh the secrecy problems.

Companies make bad decisions. I think this is one example of a bad decision by Apple, but I don't think it's all doom and gloom.

With this sort of logic, then on the Mac side you would have never have known of Photoshop, MS Word, etc. etc.

I do think secrecy is important in a company, but when it relates to a community as well as customers, imho it's a very bad idea.

 

[digitalbiker]

Apple is the new evil empire. it'll be worse that Microsoft because Apple controls both their software and hardware. Apple do not listen to customers. Apple is arrogant.

I agree. Apple is becoming more and more like Steve Jobs himself. He may be a genius at company building but he is an arrogant, selfish, dictator with few friends and no history of giving back to others.

Apple needs to hire Woz as co-CEO to counter balance Steve. Woz is fun loving, well liked, caring, a real humanitarian.

 

[NetScheduler]

Right

What I mean is, Apple says it's a rule, so it's a rule. There's no debate over that.

Yes, we can debate whether it SHOULD be a rule (I say no, btw) but the fact is, Apple said it's their rule, so it's a rule!

Couldn't agree more. As a Fanboy, I'm too stupid to decide on my own what applications I want to run. If Steve says I don't need it, then I will mindlessly follow. I sure hope they extend this policy to the Mac as well - I'm so confused with all the different browsers and since Firefox duplicates the functionality of Safari (as does all other browsers), it (they) has (have) no place on an Apple product. Same goes for the "crappy" Microsoft Office - It duplicates the functionality of iWork and if people don't wish to use iWork, they can go somewhere else.

Thank you Steve and thank you Apple of relieving us fanboys of a difficult task - thinking.

 

[Rondogg96]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

I really wish Apple was completely open with it's App Store. This is the thing that frustrates me as an iPhone owner, and this is why I have yet to switch to the Mac platform. Any of the useful Apps that add functionality to the iPhone's intergrated Apps and make the experience actually better get rejected, and Apps that end up there somehow get taken out. That Podcaster Application would have kept me glued to my iPhone, because I don't sync podcasts through iTunes, so this would come in handy for me, but the almighty Apple doesn't want anyone to fill in the gaps unless they're the ones to do it, and they aren't.

 

[jellomizer]

While I don't appreciate how much Apple is trying to close off the system and make it a black box, I don't think a free-for-all approach will be any better. There will be so much junk to sift through to find something good. Not to mention malicious app possibilities.

Well apple does have the option to do a fair control of the apps. Malicious Apps bad, or ones that that do not work as advertised. However... I don't care for them deciding what features to allow or disallow even though it may compete with their own functionality. I say allow them to add different web browsers, flash support, Java Support, Different codexes.
Apples apps are actually quite nice and I don't see how say a firefox for the iPhone is a big deal. Most people will probably still just use safari.

 

[w00master]

Couldn't agree more. As a Fanboy, I'm too stupid to decide on my own what applications I want to run. If Steve says I don't need it, then I will mindlessly follow. I sure hope they extend this policy to the Mac as well - I'm so confused with all the different browsers and since Firefox duplicates the functionality of Safari (as does all other browsers), it (they) has (have) no place on an Apple product. Same goes for the "crappy" Microsoft Office - It duplicates the functionality of iWork and if people don't wish to use iWork, they can go somewhere else.

Thank you Steve and thank you Apple of relieving us fanboys of a difficult task - thinking.

LOL, this is truly the post of the month. Love it!

I'd like to also add makes you think twice about their past slogan: "Think Different." Guess what they meant was: "Don't think at all!"

 

[Mackan]

Totally agree. Now Apple doesn't even want you talking about the fact you've been rejected from their store? That's pretty damn weak.

Perhaps this makes a few more people realize that Apple's world is quite a bit about control... Most fanboys will continue to blindly swallow whatever Steve gives them, though.

 

[Twylo]

Absolutely unacceptable.

Well, I'm going to list my iPhone 3G on eBay tonight, and break my AT&T contract. I may not break even, but at this point I'm willing to accept a small loss.

 

[lucasgladding]

Your comparing apples to oranges here. People who are developing iphone apps aren't in negotiations for multi-million dollar deals. I don't see how you can compare a tip calculator to something like call of duty.

What about the developers who are making millions of dollars? They are in negotiations with a publisher, regardless of the magnitude. I didn't spend hundreds of hours in development so far so that I could test my applications on my own device.

I would be interested to know if anyone has asked Apple about advice on whether an application is within limits. I know they take time to respond, but I'm sure someone has tried. We all know that X-Plane was pre-approved, even though that would have mass appeal. Any others?

 

[ricardobeat]

1) Create a sexy new mobile platform, with a great SDK.
2) Charge 99 dollars to be able to distribute apps on the new store.
3) Let a few developers talk about how much money they're making.
4) Reject any apps that you don't like, after the developer has finished month of work.
5) Gag those who are rejected, so future developers continue to get sucked in.

Can't fail. Pity Apple probably have it patented..

Possible. I think now that Steve Jobs has cancer, he is running for short-term profits. Fill up your family's pockets and die, to hell with the customer.

 

[mackandproud]

But isn't disclosing the policy of non disclosure itself disclosure, and therefore a violation?

I'm gonna refer to Steve as "da fuhrer" from now on.

 

[w00master]

One more thing: can you imagine if every game developer who tried to publish through EA or one of the big publishers published the reasons for the breakdown in their negotiations?

The problem with this analogy is that breakdowns in gaming are more about distribution and rights, whereas in Apple's case it's about the app itself.

Also, guidelines on what is acceptable and not acceptable in gaming are rather clear, as well as publishers are rather consistent in what they deem is ok or not ok. In Apple's case, this is the core of the problem: lack of consistency and clarity.

 

[mackandproud]

Darth, I mean Steve, in an email dated 9/23/08:

"There will be no one to stop us this time, Admiral!"

Apple is the new evil empire.

 

[HLdan]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

I really wish Apple was completely open with it's App Store. This is the thing that frustrates me as an iPhone owner, and this is why I have yet to switch to the Mac platform. Any of the useful Apps that add functionality to the iPhone's intergrated Apps and make the experience actually better get rejected, and Apps that end up there somehow get taken out. That Podcaster Application would have kept me glued to my iPhone, because I don't sync podcasts through iTunes, so this would come in handy for me, but the almighty Apple doesn't want anyone to fill in the gaps unless they're the ones to do it, and they aren't.

And this has what to do with you not switching to a Mac??

 

[lucasgladding]

Then guess what, Apple needs to be EXPLICIT about this. They are not. This is the core of the problem. Apple isn't being consistent and hence it is causing confusion (and panic) among developers as well as users.

Finally, what about the VOIP app? Why does Steve Jobs say it's ok, when it duplicates the central app of the iPhone. The phone.

Of course Apple has this right. As I've stated previously, they aren't being clear and consistent. This hurts everyone. This is the whole reason why many of us are upset by all of this. The NDA thing (though in since the beginning) just smacks of censorship, even though this might not be Apple's intention.

Ultimately, Apple needs to come to realize and understand that alternative apps which may or may not duplicate functionality in the iPhone HELPS Apple in the long run. I hope they come to understand and realize this.

No one knows what the approval process looks like, but you can be sure there is one. For all we know, Apple is working on refining its terms of service right now. The agreement is private between Apple and the developers - Apple should not be required to handle public relations for its private agreements.

The NDA notice that started this thread was necessary because so many developers have broken their vow of silence. One of the reasons that the developer program was kept so small and private initially was so Apple could communicate with individual developers. Most in the early program have already attested to this.

Apple needs to be more open about its approval process, agreed, but this should be done at a press conference, not in defense of media attacks. Developers should be knocking down the doors at Apple to get this addressed, not "leaking" the information through media sites. How much press will Apple get if and when they finally accept Podcaster or anything else initially rejected?

Finally, how many apps have been rejected out of the thousands that have been accepted?

 

[Nuvi]

You guys all remember the "1984" ad about the evil and controlling "big blue"? Or at least we thought it was about IBM being the big brother and Apple being the rebel. In reality it seems that in 2008 big brother is Apple but who the hell will be the "sledge hammer girl"?

I've been Apple guy since day one and seen how its gone from "Think different" to "think iWay". Back in the days i had my day dreams about Mac being dominating platform but now I'm more then happy to see Apple being the underdog. Steve Jobs might be genius when it comes down to products but he fails miserably in product and communication policies. Why can't Apple just understand when to back off and let the product have the life of its own which might be bigger then they ever thought? There is no need to control everything with iron fist.

However, it still seems that even after the big mistake that Steve did 20 years ago that guy wants to control everything. Not all of use learn from our mistakes... I'm so glad that Apple isn't the top dog; who wants to live under the dictatorship that they would have over us if they had their way.

 

[w00master]

No one knows what the approval process looks like, but you can be sure there is one. For all we know, Apple is working on refining its terms of service right now. The agreement is private between Apple and the developers - Apple should not be required to handle public relations for its private agreements.

The fact that this has gotten this far, to me, attests the fact that the guidelines are not clear.

The NDA notice that started this thread was necessary because so many developers have broken their vow of silence. One of the reasons that the developer program was kept so small and private initially was so Apple could communicate with individual developers. Most in the early program have already attested to this.

This model works on a very small group of people. When you extend it out as a "platform," secrecy and NDAs of this nature are counterproductive. Developers need the freedom to discuss things with each other and at times with their consumers. Apple's NDA prevents this entirely. There is simply no reason for this besides protection of Apple's patents.

This becomes a detriment to not only us, the consumers, but also hurts developers abilities to create truly innovate applications.

Apple needs to be more open about its approval process, agreed, but this should be done at a press conference, not in defense of media attacks. Developers should be knocking down the doors at Apple to get this addressed, not "leaking" the information through media sites.

I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree. My point is that if these silly NDAs didn't exist and developers had the freedom to discuss, debate, and communicate with each other, Apple, and consumers, then this issue would have never gotten to this point.

 

[mac 2005]

I predict the #1 app in the Android Market store will be porn. Not that there's anything wrong with that I guess.

(and #2 will be Koi Pond)

arn

No. 3 will be a virtual whoopie cushion
No. 4 will be a flashlight

 

[batchtaster]

I know!! It's frustrating having your time wasted like that, isn't it?

Imagine how those developers who have had their apps arbitrarily rejected after hundreds of hours of work feel?

Meh. Nobody's forcing them to, so they takes their chances in their jostling for a feed at the iPhone money trough. People are acting like it's a constitutional outrage. How did they ever survive before the iPhone existed? Yawn.

Do we really need to hear about *every* *single* *thing* that happens in *the* *iPhone* *world*?

 

[lucasgladding]

I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree. My point is that if these silly NDAs didn't exist and developers had the freedom to discuss, debate, and communicate with each other, Apple, and consumers, then this issue would have never gotten to this point.

I don't think we disagree as much as my posts might suggest. I don't support the NDA or the restricted nature of the system. I am worried, however, that the negative publicity is getting out of control. If Apple was looking to lift the NDA and make the TOS clearer, they now have serious cleanup to do before that can happen.

Apple announced that it will be working with universities to allow iPhone development courses, so the NDA will most likely have to be lifted when those programs commence. As of now, everyone with information about the program has either signed the NDA or been leaked information from someone who has. When the courses begin, that distinction will be lost. I can't imagine that all students will be required to sign an NDA and the infrastructure provided by the university systems to restrict access to the course notes.

Note that I am anxious to see the NDA lifted so we see some development books and open discussion. I have plenty of information to share from what I have learned over the past few years on the Mac and some of my work on the iPhone . I am also anxious to see the interface overhauls on 10.6 that are likely the result of Cocoa Touch.

 

[HLdan]

You guys all remember the "1984" ad about the evil and controlling "big blue"? Or at least we thought it was about IBM being the big brother and Apple being the rebel. In reality it seems that in 2008 big brother is Apple but who the hell will be the "sledge hammer girl"?

I've been Apple guy since day one and seen how its gone from "Think different" to "think iWay". Back in the days i had my day dreams about Mac being dominating platform but now I'm more then happy to see Apple being the underdog. Steve Jobs might be genius when it comes down to products but he fails miserably in product and communication policies. Why can't Apple just understand when to back off and let the product have the life of its own which might be bigger then they ever thought? There is no need to control everything with iron fist.

However, it still seems that even after the big mistake that Steve did 20 years ago that guy wants to control everything. Not all of use learn from our mistakes... I'm so glad that Apple isn't the top dog; who wants to live under the dictatorship that they would have over us if they had their way.

The thing about it is the reason that Apple failed back in the 90's and the company almost folded because Apple was so open and had no control. There were clones and companies were doing anything they wanted with their Macintosh clones and things failed miserably.
Because of Apple's way of handling things today is why the company is so financially successful. Would you change the way things are run based on the current success of the company?

 

[w00master]

The thing about it is the reason that Apple failed back in the 90's and the company almost folded because Apple was so open and had no control. There were clones and companies were doing anything they wanted with their Macintosh clones and things failed miserably.
Because of Apple's way of handling things today is why the company is so financially successful. Would you change the way things are run based on the current success of the company?

I disagree with this sentiment. I don't believe for a second that it was really the "clones" that were killing Apple. Apple was killing themselves. Think about how many Mac products there were. No wonder consumers were buying clones. Apple didn't have their act together at all. During the early to mid nineties, I wanted to purchase a mac, but I couldn't figure out which one I needed. Instead, I opted and considered a Power Machine instead. Why? The configurations were far more clear and concise.

Openness doesn't hurt a company (especially in the 90s with Apple). It's such a myth within the Mac community that still lives on today.

 

[macaco74]

I can see this as being awfully frustrating.