Apple Extends Non-Disclosure to App Store Rejection Letters

[marco114]

I am sure this has been said already but if Apple rejects an application, then there is no agreement to comply since there is no compensation. So therefore, the contract is null and void and you can talk all you want. Sorry Apple.

Plus, who's to say you can't anonymously talk about their draconian practices?

 

[/dev/toaster]

Ouch! This is a terrible way for Apple to handle this, the backlash will be far worse now. Some of these rejections have been very questionable. Ok, the mail app isn't _that_ much different then Mail.app. Podcaster added functionality not currently available for the iPod. The rich app was ridiculous and needed to be removed.

I think the NDA will hold on it though, its not like those DMCA claims that have an NDA attached to it. I am sad to see that the NDA is going to stick around, this is going to harm the platform a lot. Sorry, but many developers will just not develop for a platform that they can't share code for or even discuss.

Few things that Apple does really piss me off and this is one of them. As a developer I question if I want to develop for this platform or not. (just talking iPhone) Sure, I am very new to developing on the Mac but why would I waste my energy on the iPhone.

Google Android is weak right now, but it can fill the gaps. Don't get me wrong, the iPhone is hands down the best platform on mobile devices. Its going to take quite a bit to change that status. Apple don't hang your self on this, don't piss off developers its the worst thing you can do. These people are working very very very hard on this applications, think about them.

Sorry, small rant here ... just very annoyed.

 

[marco114]

I disagree with this sentiment. I don't believe for a second that it was really the "clones" that were killing Apple. Apple was killing themselves. Think about how many Mac products there were. No wonder consumers were buying clones. Apple didn't have their act together at all. During the early to mid nineties, I wanted to purchase a mac, but I couldn't figure out which one I needed. Instead, I opted and considered a Power Machine instead. Why? The configurations were far more clear and concise.

My Power Machines tower kicked Apple's ass.

 

[Abstract]

Wow, WWDC is sure going to be interesting.

I am sure this has been said already but if Apple rejects an application, then there is no agreement to comply since there is no compensation. So therefore, the contract is null and void and you can talk all you want. Sorry Apple.

I didn't think there was, either.


Furthermore, NDAs are there to protect Apple from sensitive information being leaked to competitors. This is the ABUSE of an NDA, not a valid use of it.

I think anyone would be able to take this to court and win. Of course, they'd need to be very very rich in order to afford the lawyers, which is why big companies are never afraid of doing something like this to the little guy, even if they don't have legal ground actually carry out what they threaten.

 

[lucasgladding]

One last post before bedtime . Has anyone else read the MailWrangler rejection carefully? It reads:
"Your application duplicates the functionality of the built-in iPhone application Mail without providing sufficient differentiation or added functionality, which will lead to user confusion"

Compare that to the rejection from Podcaster:
"Since Podcaster assists in the distribution of podcasts, it duplicates the functionality of the Podcast section of iTunes"

I expect to see MailWrangler on the store at some point as long as Apple does not keep the application out for developer NDA violations. It seems like the only thing necessary is some extra branding to differentiate the application from Mail. Once again, I don't think an initial rejection means an application will never make it to market.

In the words of Red Green :
"Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together."

 

[branjosef]

Well at least I know my "You have a virus" program wont get rejected by apple Phew- I was worried ! I already have a bunch of reviews typed up in word so I can copy and paste them into itunes effectively boosting my overall rating.

 

[branjosef]

Damn you Apple and all your over hyped gadgets !!!! Oooh I can't wait to get the new nano

 

[branjosef]

All I can say is one word "This Sucks"

 

[Nuvi]

The thing about it is the reason that Apple failed back in the 90's and the company almost folded because Apple was so open and had no control. There were clones and companies were doing anything they wanted with their Macintosh clones and things failed miserably.
Because of Apple's way of handling things today is why the company is so financially successful. Would you change the way things are run based on the current success of the company?

I'm not talking about 90's. I talking about 80's when there was MS DOS and Mac could've been the dominating system. In matter of fact Apple could've been Microsoft and Mac OS could've been Windows.

In all honesty I couldn't care less about maximizing Apple profitability. I'm a user and not a stock holder. In its current form Apple policies don't favor the user.

 

[whooleytoo]

Do we really need to hear about *every* *single* *thing* that happens in *the* *iPhone* *world*?

If you're not interested, fair enough. But an NDA on developers is a pretty extreme method of getting a little peace and quiet!!

 

[Spades]

Because of Apple's way of handling things today is why the company is so financially successful. Would you change the way things are run based on the current success of the company?

Part of the success of OS X is that it's an open platform in just about every sense of the word. It's only closed in that Apple ties it to a specific set of hardware. You can develop and sell anything you want for OS X without Apple's permission. A similar approach would be letting you develop and sell whatever software you want for the iPhone, but of course they're not going to let you install Mobile OS X on other phones or let you install other mobile operating systems on the iPhone.

This closed approach to software for the iPhone is a new direction for computing. So Apple is in fact abandoning the tried and tested.

 

[chris200x9]

Yeah Right.

So, because you don't like Apple's Modus Operandi in regards to the App Store you are going to change to a different computer platform from the one that's been servicing you well? If that's the case nobody would be using Windows based on Microsoft's business ethics.

no I have been regretting my macbook and iphone purchase for a long time.....an SDK promised then released as a beta and apps months later than expected... apps that once worked got pulled and now don't....... ........tied to one carrier even AFTER your contract expires......music that you "bought" but you can't use on linux..... core duo processors when the rest of the indestry had core 2....... ........leopard being a craptastic waste of 129....... I was a good little apple fanboi for far to long.....now I'm more interested in comsumer rights....and the one community where consumer rights are priority one is gnu/linux so yea thats where I'll be I'm running gentoo only on my workstation.....the only reason I'm using mac os x on my macbook is you can't set linux as default startup disk and my down key is broken......terminal + broken down key = not good........

 

[MacOldTimer!]

European Union!

We in the USA are used to such tactics and have become almost immune to them.

I'll be curious to see what the European Union has to say about such policies after cracking down on MS so hard.

Apple, you’ve bit off more than you can chew on this one.

Apple has clearly made their stance and IMHO it's as anti completive as it gets.
EU come to the rescue of developers all over the world to stop this.

If not the developer community for the iPhone will turn and run as it's doing.
There has to be some jurisdiction that does not allow this type of control.

Remember, where not just dealing with the USA now the iPhone is a Global Phone and along with that comes Global Responsibility.

Kind of sounds like the stock market doesn't it. The US is writing a blank check and Apple is writing its own policies and changing them when it doesn't meet their criteria of a qualified Application.

Someone has got to step in from a higher level than this board and stop this.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

2008. The year of the Apple Let-Down.

...and the hits just keep comin.

 

[Abstract]

I imagine the duplication that caused the rejections is that of the advertised functionality of the phone. Take a look through the iPhone TV ads and you will see what functionality Apple values on the device. The risky areas IMHO are mail, calendar, music, web, contact, and maps.

Has anyone else read the MailWrangler rejection carefully? It reads:
"Your application duplicates the functionality of the built-in iPhone application Mail without providing sufficient differentiation or added functionality, which will lead to user confusion"

If what you said was true, there would be far fewer apps.

Compare that to the rejection from Podcaster:
"Since Podcaster assists in the distribution of podcasts, it duplicates the functionality of the Podcast section of iTunes"

How many apps are available on the Mac that duplicate some function of iPhoto, iMovie, Numbers, Pages, etc etc?? I'm sure there are lots. I don't understand why Apple stops apps from being distributed if people want them.

Some form of app at the App Store is bound to step on Apple's toes. THAT is software development. You try to make something original, or something better (or both). Look at Mac software development. Do you hear disaster stories from them? Should Firefox be rejected? Camino? Opera? Should Adobe Lightroom? Cocktail? PathFinder?

Also, what you said isn't clearly stated in Apple's restrictions for iPhone development. As far as an application doesn't breach Apple's restrictions, it should pass through their system. Period. That's it. No secret restrictions at Apple HQ, no making up rules on the fly. Nothing. So no, duplicating a function on the iPhone shouldn't result in a rejection of an app.

 

[branjosef]

Hey look on the bright side...with apple building a german movie catalog for their itunes launch in Germany... Everyone can download "Das Boot"!!!

I wonder if they will have the complete David Hasslehoff collection...maybe even some music videos.

 

[Stella]

Please if Microsoft did that, I would have no problem with it, they are out to make money just like everyone else in this world. Funny if that it was you guys in the same situation you would would be doing even worse. Life is not fair, get over it.

No I'm speechless as to why you feel everything is Apple's fault and the developer did nothing wrong, it's all big bad Apple's fault.

When the malporn on your mates G-Phone rings you up at 4am in the morning without your knowledge advertising Horse Sex, you'll be glad you had a walled garden, and wishing your mate had one also.

That said, I have a sneaky suspicion my app (when finished) will be a prime target for being banned, and that will bug the crap out of me. However in the long term I think caution by Apple is an intelligent move.

Wake up: Would you accept OSX applications being controlled in this way? Probably not - so why do you accept iPhone Applications being controlled? Its just another OS!!!!!

Don't you realize that any OSX app could send your address book data to another server, SMS and SPAM those emails / phone numbers and you'd never realize it!!

You being are being fed FUD!!

Those who agree with Apple AppStore policies should have no complaint when Record Companies refuse to supply iTunes with non DRM music.

 

[whooleytoo]

I am sure this has been said already but if Apple rejects an application, then there is no agreement to comply since there is no compensation. So therefore, the contract is null and void and you can talk all you want. Sorry Apple.

Plus, who's to say you can't anonymously talk about their draconian practices?

I doubt that's true, even if your app gets rejected I'm sure the NDA still applies. I've no idea what penalty you could be open to, but depending on how much info you spill and how much it hurts Apple, I'm sure you'd find out.

(p.s. you can't really speak anonymously - about the rejection reasons at least. If the reason for an app's rejection leaks, only one person could have leaked that info).

 

[lucasgladding]

If what you said was true, there would be far fewer apps.

How many apps are available on the Mac that duplicate some function of iPhoto, iMovie, Numbers, Pages, etc etc?? I'm sure there are lots. I don't understand why Apple stops apps from being distributed if people want them.

Some form of app at the App Store is bound to step on Apple's toes. THAT is software development. You try to make something original, or something better (or both). Look at Mac software development. Do you hear disaster stories from them? Should Firefox be rejected? Camino? Opera? Should Adobe Lightroom? Cocktail? PathFinder?

Also, what you said isn't clearly stated in Apple's restrictions for iPhone development. As far as an application doesn't breach Apple's restrictions, it should pass through their system. Period. That's it. No secret restrictions at Apple HQ, no making up rules on the fly. Nothing. So no, duplicating a function on the iPhone shouldn't result in a rejection of an app.

Apple does not distribute most Mac applications. They do, however, distribute most (except Ad Hoc) iPhone applications. This is the distinction here. We all know that Apple likes doing things one way - in the App Store they have the power to enforce that. It does not mean that the application cannot be distributed, it just means that the distinction needs to be clear. The Apple reviewer clearly states this in the MailWrangler rejection. Apple has never, to my knowledge, stated that an application will never be sold regardless of the modifications made.

Aside: Mobile platforms are more fragile than desktop platforms because of the limited resources available. This is one of the reasons why Apple has limited the distribution methods available for the iPhone. X-Plane, for example, can crash because the phone barely has enough memory to run it. Austin Meyer states this explicitly on the X-Plane web site. I think Apple has a valid reason for wanting to control the distribution of applications on its mobile platform.

BTW: I pray that Apple never does control the distribution for Mac applications. I'm sure that would be the end of the the applications mentioned by Abstract.

@Abstract: my second post was meant to suggest that Apple is trying to be clearer about their rejections without losing their ability to be subjective. Apple should not have the ability to shut off the market for applications IMHO, but that is another issue from the NDA violations and application rejections. My suggestion: allow unlimited distribution for Ad Hoc but still require that the provisioning profile be generated for the user. This is no different than the current shareware model for most developers, myself included.

 

[branjosef]

Plus, who's to say you can't anonymously talk about their draconian practices?

What does Count Dracula have to do with this anyways?

 

[ryanwarsaw]

I predict the #1 app in the Android Market store will be porn. Not that there's anything wrong with that I guess.

(and #2 will be Koi Pond)

arn

+1 LOL

 

[Duality]

A tyrannical approach?

I registered just to discuss this.

I'm a 'switcher-to-be'. I'm weeks away from getting an iMac, which could be extended to months away if it turns out that there *is* going to be a revamp in november.

This has made me reconsider my position. I'm not not going to get a Mac until I at least hear more about this ridiculous situation. Have Apple gone power crazy? Have they just turned into a 'clean' image version of Microsoft?

*Shudder*

I'm not leaving the comfort of Windows, as irritating as it may be, for the false sanctuary of Apple, if they're going to behave in this way. Are they going to start approving every program on Apple computers? Are they going to tell me I can't keep music I paid for someday because they feel like it?

This is such an obscure knee-jerk reaction. To be honest, it initially made me think of China and the olympics this year. A tiny amount of bad press comes out and the go nuts and clamp down on anyone and anything that opposes their authority. Not a good image, not one that I'd normally associate with Apple.

It may just be an iPhone thing, but it sets a terrible precedent. I'm disgusted, I'd write a letter to Apple about it, but there's probably no way to contact anyone who matters.

 

[contractcooker]

short sighted

Right so I guess everything that people whine about is right the, these big and bad corporations are always right and y'all are the ones right.

Wow man.... you are so completely blind to what is wrong with this picture. Apple is supposed to be a positive force for it's investors but if it starts alienating developers everyone will suffer. I think everyone is getting a little heated and forgetting the main point. THIS IS BAD!! regardless of apple's intentions this is sullying their image. They need to present themselves as a open and stimulating market. I don't think anyone is trying to say that they are always right just that apple is making some bad decisions in this situation. I am disturbed that apple cannot grasp the idea that a transparent set of qualifications for app store apps is necessary. Not having a way to know what apps are valid from the outset is just completely unacceptable on any conceivable level. It JUST WON'T WORK FOR APPLE TO PLAY APPSTORE NAZI. Apple needs to immediately create a firm set of rules for app store rejection.

It's just completely short-sighted and doesn't make sense.

 

[branjosef]

I miss when apple was "Apple Computers"

They are wasting their time on this when they could be focusing on more important things like updating the MBP and an MTV reality show entitled "Just Steve"

 

[Templex]

Wow, that's unbelievable.