Apple Factory Conditions

[ChrisA]

I wonder what the conditions were like at the place those workers were at before they became employed at the iPod factory? In many cases this was a small family farm where they were their own boss. I've read interviews where some of them say they prefer to work 12 hour days in a factory to working at the farm, factory work is less physically demanding and they were not able to make ANY cash at the farm

You have to remember where these workers come from. Working a small un-mechanized farm, by hand is hard work and horribly un-productive in terms of output per labor hour. What is the curent wholesale price of rice in China? Three cents a pound or something and you are only paid after a havest? $50 per week for sitting down in a chair indoors sounds good to them.

 

[schatten]

That's the benefit of being an empire.

This is the norm.

People seem to think that there's a place for ethics in big business. Come on now. Real successful business people leave their morality at home when they pick up their briefcase & head out the door. If you don't like it, don't buy Apple products, or shop at WAL-MART, or buy food from McDonalds. Nothing will change though. Its bigger than you. It's not just business, It's politics.

This isn't going to change. Part of being an economic superpower like America is exploiting lesser nations. That's the way it's always been. When Britan was the world superpower, or France, or Rome, or Persia, or Egypt... all the way back through history, the mightiest empires flexed their muscle & the rest of the world trembled.... Well, that is until the empire collapsed...

Which America will too, one day.

China will be the next Superpower, I guarantee it.

 

[Krevnik]

It's absolutely not acceptable for Apple to exploit people. I don’t care what the Chinese average income is - Apple is making billions of dollars of profit, some of this should be passed on to the people that make their products. Its good ethics.

I'm glad this is in the spotlight because it puts pressure on Apple.

Correction... billions in revenue... millions in profit. If we are gonna hammer on anyone being in the wrong, can we at least be right?

(EDIT: Correcting myself here... I am talking on a quarterly basis... on a yearly basis, yes, Apple has been able to break the 'b' mark in net income for a year-long period thanks to the iPod)

 

[alec]

OK, some prevailing ideas on this thread: this is business, they wouldn't work there if they didn't choose to, they probably make more at this job then at other jobs, etc.

Because it is business and because this may be a market wage in China does not make this acceptable conditions. What's described here is what occurs frequently in China: capitalist work camps (no joke) -- young men or women sign up to work at foreign contractors manufacturing plants where on-compound dormitories are provided (but paid for by the employees). They work 12 to 14 hours a day without much legal recourse or flexibility because a) they're in China b) they signed a contract without knowing it's intentions.

Listen, I have a Mac and an iPod, and I'd be a hypocrite to say I'm free of the shared guilt for buying goods that were probably made under poor working conditions. But this is the consequence of globilization, where the pursuit of profits and free markets is an excuse for ignoring the human condition.

 

[swingerofbirch]

Before I knew of this specific problem, I had already written to Apple opposing their manufacturing almost everything "they make" in China. Unbridled trade with China hurts real Americans as well (as opposed to American CEOs who it greatly benefits).

To everyone who says that $50 goes farther in China, realize that an iPod in China that costs $299 in the US, costs over $361.

Until people realize that democracy means that we own our economy instead of thinking of it as being in the sacred domain of Wall Street, we are chained. It is so ironic that Americans don't vote with their pocketbooks. I talked to a woman the other day without health insurance who doesn't want universal health care because it's "communist."

This is a self esteem issue on the part of Americans. Americans think that they look pathetic when they start demanding to be treated with dignity and respect. Companies and cronies in government thrive on low expectations.

 

[stunna]

Surely it didn't take this article for you to figure out Apple is just another greedy company. As with every large company, they will do damn near anything to up their profit margins.

They can move Nike from their sweatshop and into theirs and produce the new shoes for the iPod together.

I guess this is how apple can afford to give away free nanos with a Mac purchase

ROFL @ nike + ipod sweat shop comment

 

[reyesmac]

I wonder if Apple put quotas on production costs or if the companies are trying to scam Apple out of more money than the product costs to make. Either way, thats what you get when you do business with the enemy. With the price of iPods being what they are they could make them anywhere and still make a profit.

If they are going to abuse the poor workers, they should do so to get the new Powermac out the door quicker and not waste time on iPods.

 

[Philoman]

If the story is true, and Macs are built under similar conditions in the Far East, makes a mockery of how Apple prices their machines way above the cost of an equivalent PC, even though the Mac is far better than a PC of course.

True about Macs being build under similar conditions...

Don't forget Apple spends more time and money on design! That's what makes Apple superior to others. And design and research cost money and they have to make a profit on that. Just like Porsche or Ferrari spend more time on design and research. Consumers are willing and have to pay for that.

 

[whocares]

Welcome to the Real World™ of business folks.


Offer a consumer a 299USD iPod Made in China or a 499USD iPod made in USA, which one will he buy?


I'm by no why condoning sweatshops; just stating a fact.

 

[stunna]

This is the norm.

People seem to think that there's a place for ethics in big business. Come on now. Real successful business people leave their morality at home when they pick up their briefcase & head out the door. If you don't like it, don't buy Apple products, or shop at WAL-MART, or buy food from McDonalds. Nothing will change though. Its bigger than you. It's not just business, It's politics.

This isn't going to change. Part of being an economic superpower like America is exploiting lesser nations. That's the way it's always been. When Britan was the world superpower, or France, or Rome, or Persia, or Egypt... all the way back through history, the mightiest empires flexed their muscle & the rest of the world trembled.... Well, that is until the empire collapsed...

Which America will too, one day.

China will be the next Superpower, I guarantee it.

Just curious why do you think china will be the next super power?

 

[swingerofbirch]

Welcome to the Real World™ of business folks.


Offer a consumer a 299USD iPod Made in China or a 499USD iPod made in USA, which one will he buy?


I'm by no why condoning sweatshops; just stating a fact.

'


Put a 68% tariff on Chinese goods, and the choice should be easy. : )

 

[dblissmn]

Move those factories to the US! $1000 isn't too much to pay for an iPod Nano!

It's disingenuous to suggest that in-sourcing would have more than a few dollars' effect on the price. Transportation and some logistic costs would actually go down slightly and labor costs are a remarkably small proportion of the cost of an iPod.

And don't forget that something like 50 percent of the price of almost every iPod (with the possible exception of the lower-margin 4GB nano) is pure profit. It is by far Apple's highest profit item. Even if these were made in the US and Apple were forced to hold their prices where they are, iPods would still make more profit than the company average.

Think about cell phones. Are Samsungs and LGs (made in South Korea, with basically US-style wages) any more expensive than Motorolas (made in China with cheap wages)? Not that you'd notice. But unlike the US, South Korea does not give companies tax breaks for operating offshore, and indeed throws up barriers in the way of outsourcing. Hasn't stopped them from achieving one of the fastest growth rates out there -- they were peasants in the paddy fields 50 years ago, and look at them now.

Think once again about cell phones. Have Moto prices dropped since they canned their factory in suburban Chicago and moved production to China? No -- the good ones are now more expensive than ever when introduced. The company's profits have gone up the last few years, I'll grant you that.

And besides, do Americans in particular really want to outsource to a country that is grooming itself for the Soviet Union's old role as America's main opponent in the world?

 

[Krevnik]

Trade and weather are the main factors in natural product. A bad season would effect groceries more than a rich neighborhood. In many low class neighborhood in America, the prices of groceries are jacked up. Due mainly to the fact that the people don't have any means of going anywhere else.

If you take a look at some of these areas, you might also be looking at /whom/ is selling the groceries in that area. I see higher pricing in poorer areas, but I also see smaller store chains, or one-off stores. Volume drives discounts in the economy... and so stores selling smaller volumes with a higher waste percentage is gonna have to sell their goods for higher prices in order to make up for it. But, a richer neighborhood could start attracting more expensive brands, or more expensive foods, at the expense of the cheaper foods. Otherwise, I am inclined to agree on this point... in general, the food market can only scale to meet affluence so far.

Demand is what drives the prices of housing.

As your means increase, so does what you can afford. Demand driving housing prices is a bit too simplistic. The moment you have a cultural elite, you suddenly have a market for more expensive housing, and thus a 'demand' for it. The market responds by trying to meet it (usually too enthusiastically, with pricing which is out-of-whack). Don't believe me? Look at Bellevue, Washington in the US. Right next to Redmond, home of MS, which pays pretty decently... and we have a Google office in Kirkland next door. Prices for housing in every direction around Bellevue has been increasing, not just in the places in high demand... and part of it is because we have 3 large companies all paying wages well above the region's median. Housing developers are building trying to catch the software devs with 300k homes, with large profit margins on the homes, instead of aiming at those on minimum wage.

Oh, and demand for housing in a region can be related to people wanting to move there because of the better pay, compounding the issue.

 

[Philoman]

Considering how poorly most all China made products are, Apple products are good as products made in any country (i.e. US, Japan or Germany)

Now consider how much they have to whip the Chinese workers to get that kind of quality out of them. Can you imagine. I rather be in the US prison than being in a Chinese factory. Whew~

 

[alexf]

For shame...

Shame on you Apple.

Just another big greedy corporation. I guess we should hardly be surprised, as this is the way the world works these days: the poor slave away all day and night so that the rich can play with their new toys.

Somehow I thought Apple would "think different" from the typical model, but I should have known better.

And for all of you saying that "this is just business" and "the workers are happy to have these jobs," etc., etc.: yes, we have all heard these arguments before, usually out of the mouths of right-wingers who could care less about human suffering and the growing disparity between the rich and the poor on this planet. Unfortunately it is not so cut and dry, and Apple (along with other large corporations) are in a position in which they can do something about it... if, of course, they and their shareholders really wanted to.

 

[Krevnik]

It's disingenuous to suggest that in-sourcing would have more than a few dollars' effect on the price. Transportation and some logistic costs would actually go down slightly and labor costs are a remarkably small proportion of the cost of an iPod.

And don't forget that something like 50 percent of the price of almost every iPod (with the possible exception of the lower-margin 4GB nano) is pure profit. It is by far Apple's highest profit item. Even if these were made in the US and Apple were forced to hold their prices where they are, iPods would still make more profit than the company average.

Isn't it also a bit mis-leading to claim that because Apple's iPod is their highest profit item (which is debatable, actually... since the iPod and Mac divisions are currently generating revenue of roughly the same amount... and for reasons I am about to get to), that it has the highest margins? Yes, Apple's iPod is currently a big money-maker. Their net sales on their iPods are about 200 million dollars more than net sales on Macs... HOWEVER, they are also reporting falling gross margins in last quarter's filing because they were seeing increased iPod sales. Whoops... looks like the iPod is actually one of their lower-margin items, according to the numbers. :/

 

[Philoman]

Shame on you Apple...

Just another big greedy corporation. I guess we should hardly be surprised, as this is the way the world works these days: the poor slave away all day and night so that the rich can play with their new toys.

Somehow I thought Apple would "think different" from the typical model, but I should have known better.

alexf, it's not like Apple is deliberately enforcing these poor labor ethics, it's really the Chinese business owners and its management. American people do not tell the Chinese to lay down poor labor conditions.

However, Apple can overlook and give the contracts to companies that have better labor ethics. I'm sure there are good hearted Chinese business owners, I hope.

 

[wronski]

Some of you say this is just business and I tend to disagree. The average pay for a waitress is about $100 per month and a factory worker making iPods should be making at least $150. They should also not be working longer than 12 hours. However, I personally don't see why everyone is outraged with Apple about this. The business being done by the contractor is against Apple's code of conduct, which has been there since 2005, and if the code is being broken Apple will be hot on the case and they said they are. Shame on you Apple? I really don't think so.

Also, I'm not sure about the validity of the "military style drills" but the work places over there are not concentration camps.

 

[cjboffoli97]

Apple is NOT exploiting workers. This is just China.

Blaming Apple for exploiting Chinese workers is like singling out a few snowflakes in a blizzard and blaming them for ruining the driveway. I applaud Apple for launching an investigation into the matter. But I'd also caution people to stop overreacting to this news. The labor conditions described in the articles on this subject are the norm in China. This is not a classic sweatshop situation as the alarmist British media would have you believe. The average white-collar salary in China is only the equivalent of $1300 USD per year. Up to 750 million people in China live on less than $2 USD per day. Most who are lucky enough to have factory jobs work 80-100 hour weeks for an average of about $44 per month. There is no healthcare and if you are injured on the job you are out of work. What we have to remember (besides the fact that we are very lucky to live in the West) is that China is a developing country. The work conditions will seem primitive to what we are used to but the economics are totally different. This represents the reality of Chinese manufacturing. As the economy develops so too will labor conditions (just as they did in the United States). Boycotting products made in these conditions (nearly impossible to do with the widespread consumption of Chinese manufactured goods in North America) would result in a loss of jobs for workers in the People's Republic who need them.

 

[alexf]

alexf, it's not like Apple is deliberately enforcing these poor labor ethics, it's really the Chinese business owners and its management. American people do not tell the Chinese to lay down poor labor conditions.

However, Apple can overlook and give the contracts to companies that have better labor ethics. I'm sure there are good hearted Chinese business owners, I hope.

Yes, I know that Apple is not deliberately enforcing the poor labor ethics, yet they have a strong moral responsibility to research who they contract with and make sure that their products are not made under these conditions.

If the "Mail on Sunday" can find out, Apple can find out.

 

[Choppaface]

Actually, the article is a lie. The truth is that ipods are CERTIFIED ORGANICALLY GROWN IN CALIFORNIA and Apple would _never_ look to China for fake ipods or even worse, hydrogenated ipods. this is all just a big scam by tobacco companies like Creative that want you to stop buying ipods and start buying their own mp3 players instead.

As your means increase, so does what you can afford. Demand driving housing prices is a bit too simplistic.

so given what I said above, it's actually its _not_ too simplistic, demand really DOES drive everything. you see, as I mentioned above, ipods are CERTIFIED ORGANICALLY GROWN IN CALIFORNIA, so Whole Foods sells them. Whole Foods' business is entirely driven by demand, not affluence. Proof: not all affluent people shop at Whole Foods, only those who demand ipods that are CERTIFIED ORGANICALLY GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.




oh and in Beijing, to eat a huge honk'n meal its like $1-2 equivalent, so though $50 may seem paltry you're reading it in the context of journalists using tricky shock tactics they learned in college during the 5 minutes they _weren't_ high, so keep that in mind. I'd put money on that Apple will change suppliers to run this PR nightmare under the rug and end up spending 1% of their margin in the process. to make up for this they will probably sue the reporters for something, like maybe they will seed a copy of OSX 10.5 to the reporters and then DMCA the pants off them.

but like the attack on Google over censorship, or this post, this mess is just a whole bunch of boondoggle. Apple will remain one of the few companies that is precisely what you want to believe it is: good, bad, or fresh and CERTIFIED ORGANIC.

 

[alexf]

Blaming Apple for exploiting Chinese workers is like singling out a few snowflakes in a blizzard and blaming them for ruining the driveway.

That is one of the silliest analogies I have ever heard.

Right, Apple is just an innocent snowflake falling, without any choice about which moral direction it can take.

If Apple had ethics, they would find an ethical firm to contract with (they must exist in China). They are simply no other excuses. Again, if Mail on Sunday can easily find out what conditions the workers are being subjected to, why can't Apple?

Please, I know this is a site for Mac fans, so there is a tendency to side with Apple, but let's get real here!

Just another case of greed for profit over morals. Apple is obviously not above this.

(And by the way, I am NOT denying that China is also very much to blame)

 

[age234]

Hello? It's a tabloid. On the next page there was probably an aricle about halfbreed alien cats from Mars.

I'm not even going to accept the premise until a legitimate news source picks up on this.

 

[MUCKYFINGERS]

Apple still has a role in mistreating these consumners.

THey could place certain conditions and terms that must be met by the factory workers, but Steve Jobs and co. don't give a s**T and turn a blind eye as long as $$$ keeps coming in.

Steve Jobs, although he makes good products, has been and always will be a deeeuche bag.

 

[wronski]

That is one of the silliest analogies I have ever heard.

Right, Apple is just an innocent snowflake falling, without any choice about which moral direction it can take.

If Apple had ethics, they would find an ethical firm to contract with (they must exist in China). They are simply no other excuses. Again, if Mail on Sunday can easily find out what conditions the workers are being subjected to, why can't Apple?

Please, I know this is a site for Mac fans, so there is a tendency to side with Apple, but let's get real here!

Just another case of greed for profit over morals. Apple is obviously not above this.

(And by the way, I am NOT denying that China is also very much to blame)

I disagree that Apple is so much to blame. You're responding as if Apple came out and said "Yes this is how we make our products we support this working environment to the fullest." If the factory conditions are really as the article describes them I truly doubt they were like that when Apple searched for a manufacturer. Again, it is against their code of conduct and they are investigating. Ethical firms exist in China, Apple simply needs to find a new supplier. However you must know, this one will continue to work the same way, it'll just be making different products. $50 is unacceptable, 15 hours is unacceptable (should be at least $150 and 12) but again, I don't think Apple should be receiving so much blame.