Apple Fights Proposed Right to Repair Legislation With Warnings of Consumer Harm

[boss.king]

I haven't read most of the comments here so this opinion has probably been stated a few times already, but seriously, **** this excuse. It's money grubbing, plain and simple. They've already done things that make our devices more expensive to repair (see the iPhone 8/X/Xs glass backing and the 2016/17 MBPs flimsy display flex cable built into a $600 display), and now they're just trying to guarantee that they're the only ones who'll see that money when we need something fixed.

It's insane how Apple can claim to be looking out for its customers and then do **** like this.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

If the new Apple grail is the pursuit of thinness to the point of making products too difficult to be repaired, even by expert technicians, then Apple should issue a warning at the outset that their products are not meant to be tampered with and repaired, but to be replaced when failing. That way, at least you know at the outset that you have purchased and expensive throw-away knick knack, and have no unreasonable expectations of repair, upgade, or battery replacement. Of course, another option might be to back off the form-over-function esthetic and go back to producing reliable, upgradable/fixable products that generally just work.
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Yes, I get frustrated with a tendency for companies to copy some of the less than stellar Apple initiatives, from removal of headphone jacks and magsafe connectors, glued in batteries and soldered SSDs, etc. Some "right to repair" guy named Rossmann has something to say about this:

Devices get thinner, more integrated and more energy efficient. That is the trajectory of technology. Eventually you end up with system on chip, including storage. It’s the best solution, especially if you want devices to be recycled easily with less environmental impact.

It is not advisable for end users and non professionals to try to repair when technology reaches that advanced stage. There have always been too many third party computer repair shops who screw customers and they cannot handle advanced or late stage technology.

Customers especially should not be handling flexible batteries. These can easily pierce or rupture and react with oxygen on the air to form deadly gases such as lithium oxide.

We have enough plastic and e-waste eco damage. The only way to reduce this is to have compact, efficient, sealed devices that can be recycled into new products by the manufacturer. To oppose this would be short sighted and in favor of further environmental destruction.

Of course, a repair man with a YouTube channel is interested in increasing his business and triggering people to post crazy narrow minded comments.

 

[Defthand]

Apple is right to look out of the safety of its customers. Most of their products now contain batteries that can cause incredible damage, even putting human life at risk, if mishandled by someone unqualified. Some things are more important than money.

Have you even seen or handled a smartphone battery? They are not delicate. Their shell is a seamless, thick membrane. And when you change one, you use delicate jewelers tools, not mechanics tools.

There are no qualifications needed to handle a lithium battery. Lithium batteries from a reputable source are no more dangerous than other batteries. Lithium batteries exhibit symptoms when they are unstable. They typically swell, usually from poor charging habits. I had two laptop batteries do that when I left the charger attached during long absences.

If someone is injuring themselves during a battery replacement, it's because the battery was symptomatic or, possibly, the adhesive wasn't releasing and the person used an aggressive solution.

Frankly, you and Apple don't have to worry that more people will replace their phones' batteries themselves if Right to Repair bills pass. The task of opening the phone is nervewrecking. If you lack patience and finesse, you'll break the phone and have no reason to touch the battery. Inside, there are gnat-sized screws that require perfect eyesight and hand coordination. Those requirements are deterrents for most people.

So why is Right to Repair still necessary? It has less to do with DIY repairs than posters think. For one, it preserves your right to have your device serviced. It will deter shenanigans like Apple's Batterygate. Remember how that played out? Apple discreetly throttled phones whose power demands exceeded a battery's capacity. Customers noticed performance hits. Sometimes the phone powered off. Apple told customers with aging, underperforming batteries that their batteries passed Apple's diagnostic test. Apple denied battery service even if you insisted. This gave the impression that the phones themselves were aging or outdated. People bought new phones when a battery replacement was sufficeint.

Yep, Apple is a company that wants to preserve its standards and has your welfare in mind.

 

[nsayer]

This is getting ridiculous. People have been repairing and maintaining their own cars for nearly a century. Crawling under a 1- to 2-ton hunk of steel and aluminum and having it come crashing down on you is a lot more dangerous than poking a hole in a LiIon or LiPo battery and having it put on a light and smoke show...

And DIY auto repair is edging closer to the end now too. Cars are becoming more integrated - you can't replace the factory stereo anymore because the infotainment system is now way more than just a music box and has tentacles all over the car. And you can't legally alter much of the powertrain or its functionality (at least in California) without running afoul of emissions control laws.

You're right about the speciousness of Apple's safety argument, though.

Where Apple has a reasonable concern, IMHO, are the components related to the secure element, touch/face ID and so on. But there are ways that Apple's security infrastructure can be "blessed" after a third party repair that would still be reasonable. Using that as an excuse is the same dirty game inkjet printer manufacturers play to lock out third party cartridges and cartridge refill.

 

[rocknblogger]

This effects everyone because they would have to design all devices to be capable of user repair. I don’t want my devices getting bigger and heavier just to satisfy the small percentage of consumers who don’t want to use Apple for their repairs. In almost 2 decades of owning Apple devices I’ve never once came out of pocket for a repair

No you’re wrong. The proposed legislation is not about redesigning anything. If passed the legislation would allow professional technicians to get OEM parts and schematics which would allow them to repair Apple products at reasonable prices.

It really has very little to do with DIYers though they would also be able to order OEM parts if they chose to. This would be a big win for consumers and independent repair shops.

 

[Tech198]

It's not just Apple devices, but ALL devices, yet only Apple is opposing this. But Apple's also always discounted users to repair their own devices.

This is fueled further by the fact Apple uses Toax screws (and plenty of glue)..

Plus, what's wrong with providing repair manuals and parts? Dell has no issues with it.

Apple's products,, They are the ones in control... In fact, i refuse to take my devices into an Apple store now....

 

[zulkiflim]

Dear Apple

BYE BYE ... you lost your way

 

[Zwhaler]

But it's Apple that's lying about repairs, they state that X is broken, when it clearly isn't and it's a much simpler repair. Louis Rossmann has already demonstrably proven this.

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One stick of 4GB and one of 1GB?

Yes, I just thought that 4GB was a limitation of the Santa Rosa chipset.

 

[Tech198]

But it's Apple that's lying about repairs, they state that X is broken, when it clearly isn't and it's a much simpler repair. Louis Rossmann has already demonstrably proven this.

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One stick of 4GB and one of 1GB?

One pin fixed doesn't mean the entire machine will last forever.... Apple's just covering their backs by replacing an entire logic board... If they could repair a busted connector, they would, but they don't want to take the take (Can't)..

Repair shops can... because they don't get as many customers as Apple stores. They would be dishonest as they never tell you exactly. but that's not their goal anyway... If they told you it was "this connector" and you tell then you'll go elsewhere anyway, they just lost a customer.

 

[Lee_Bo]

Apple is fighting Right to Repair initiatives in California by telling lawmakers that consumers could hurt themselves attempting to repair their own devices

No, consumers could discover just how inexpensive it really is to repair their devices.

 

[Defthand]

In almost 2 decades of owning Apple devices I’ve never once came out of pocket for a repair

That isn't assuring. It means your devices broke during the warranty period which is less than two years after you purchased them. An extended warranty isn't free and is only an extra year. If appliances that cost hundreds of dollars failed that soon, you'd question their worth.

I'm curious. Of the devices that needed service, how many were desktop devices and how many were mobile devices? Which of the repaired devices did you keep and use beyond their warranty periods? Are they still troublefree?

 

[imageWIS]

Baloney. There is nothing more pedantic, childish, and delusional than "right to repair".

Oh, we don't make these products or have any clue how they're made but we insist on being able to repair! LMAO.

Just because you are ignorant as to how computers are made doesn't mean the rest of us are. There is NOTHING magical about Apple hardware, it's the same hardware available on the market to everyone else.

 

[halluxsinister]

Apple is fighting Right to Repair initiatives in California by telling lawmakers that consumers could hurt themselves attempting to repair their own devices, reports Motherboard.

Over the course of the last few weeks, an Apple representative and a lobbyist for ComTIA, a trade organization representing major tech companies, have been meeting with legislators in California with the aim of killing right to repair legislation that would make it easier for customers to repair their own electronics.

Image via iFixit​

The pair have met with members of the Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee, which held a meeting on a right to repair bill this afternoon. Apple told lawmakers that customers could potentially injure themselves by accidentally puncturing the batteries in Apple devices during attempted repairs.Apple has continually lobbied against right to repair legislation across multiple states. Such legislation would require companies like Apple to provide repair parts, tools, and make repair information available to the public.

Apple devices are notoriously hard to repair given the small, proprietary components and large amounts of adhesive, with repair site iFixit giving Apple products almost universally low repair scores.

Still, the difficult repairability has not stopped thousands of small independent repair shops from making iPhone repairs. Nathan Proctor, director of consumer rights group US PIRG's right to repair campaign, told Motherboard that suggesting there are safety concerns related to spare parts and manuals is "patently absurd."

"We know that all across the country, millions of people are doing this for themselves. Millions more are taking devices to independent repair technicians," he said.

Article Link: Apple Fights Proposed Right to Repair Legislation With Warnings of Consumer Harm

Sounds like it’s time to start sending Apple executives to iPrison.

They seemed to have knowingly and deliberately and intentionally designed, built, marketed, AND SOLD devices DESIGNED INTENTIONALLY TO CAUSE PHYSICAL INJURY AND/OR DEATH to their customers, to protect and pad their bottom lines.

I sense at LEAST a class-action lawsuit over this, requiring Apple to, as a minimum, start selling iPhones with USER-SWAPABLE, or even HOT SWAPPABLE batteries.

I’d jump on that.

 

[Dave.UK]

Great, use those and buy twice as often. Android phones after 2 years? It better be repairable because it sure won’t work without repairs.

Maybe a nice Dell laptop? LOL...good luck with customer service if you need it...hahaha.

I don't think i've ever seen someone on any forum post as much nonsense as you do.

I'm presuming Apple phones never break?

 

[Baymowe335]

I don't think i've ever seen someone on any forum post as much nonsense as you do.

I'm presuming Apple phones never break?

You should go back an re-read my posts. I post FAR more facts (from 10K, 10-Q) and hard numbers than most people here.

Apple was #1 in customer service based on a recent study and their phones have higher secondary market value. Are you disputing that?

 

[Dave.UK]

You should go back an re-read my posts. I post FAR more facts (from 10K, 10-Q) and hard numbers than most people here.

Apple was #1 in customer service based on a recent study and their phones have higher secondary market value. Are you disputing that?

Nice dodge. We wasn't talking about customer service or secondary market value. You said android phones need repairs after two years - where's your hard facts for this?

 

[Baymowe335]

Nice dodge. We wasn't talking about customer service or secondary market value. You said android phones need repairs after two years - where's your hard facts for this?

I didn't say every statement I made is backed up by data. By virtue of iPhones having more secondary market value, better software support, better customer service, and my own experience, I can say "good luck" to people with Android phones.

You don't like it, that's fine. My opinion is based on facts.

I never said every Android phone needs repairs after 2 years. If it does, good luck.

 

[Dave.UK]

I didn't say every statement I made is backed up by data. By virtue of iPhones having more secondary market value, better software support, better customer service, and my own experience, I can say "good luck" to people with Android phones.

You don't like it, that's fine. My opinion is based on facts.

I never said every Android phone needs repairs after 2 years. If it does, good luck.

Thanks for the entertainment
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Does Samsung have this setup already? Can I buy phone parts directly from Samsung? Just curious...

Yes, you can.

 

[hellopupy]

Your answer is debatable but understandable. You say there is no "right to repair" (yet) and your opinion is that shareholders may do whatever they like because is the market that decides, balances everything etc....

I respect your opinion, really! it is a political view a bit different from mine and I don't want to discuss about it in this space.
What I would like to say is that I really would appreciate Tim Apple ( or whoever of his errand boys) much more if he would have said something similar to your reply instead of ********ting us with that puerile justification about puncturing the batteries!
And again, in which country he said that? in the USA for Christ sake!
I believe in a country where anyone is self risponsible of buying whatever weapon he likes, is just ridicolous as hell to say that nobody is adult enough to change his own phone's battery.

You are making this political and quite emotional, not me.

Toyota offers parts for their cars and there are also aftermarket parts available that are at times worse and at times better than OEM. This is possible with products as complicated as cars and its more than possible (a reality) with advanced smartphones and computers.

Nobody is saying you have no right to repair your own phone because its your property and you can do whatever you want with it. You just have zero right to force any human or corporation to give/sell you the parts. You can't just legislative everything simply because it makes you happy, there are things called property rights and if you are not able to respect things as simple as the difference between whats mine and whats yours, then the argument can be made there is really no ownership at all and all ownership is a privilege and not a right. Now, are you willing to hand over your house keys to me because I want to live there?

 

[Krizoitz]

Curious, why does no other company that sells replacement parts to consumers gets condemned when a customer injures themselves trying to do a repair?

Why do you think Apple would get condemned if no other company does?

Because history shows us they do?
Remember the so-called "antenna gate"? Apple got slammed for a behavior that was common in ALL phones and a known limitation of physics.
Compare the coverage Apple gets for minor issues, with the coverage Samsung gets for major ones. Samsungs folding phone is an absolute disaster, its not plastered all over the news sites for days.
For a number of reasons, some valid, most not, Apple get targeted in the press/public opinion sphere a lot more than many other companies.
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I have this odd idea that companies are SUPPOSED to respond to market demand. Isn't the first slide in Marketing 101 "Give The Customer What He Wants"? And the second is "If Your Customers Are Telling You You're Selling S**t, Listen." Or if it isn't, it ought to be.

Apple, of course, is different. There isn't much evidence that they listen to anyone outside their own bubble. They just make stuff and tell you to take it or leave it. They think of this as innovation. Marketing innovation, obviously; there hasn't been much of the other kind for decades. And people buy this stuff by the billion.

They have achieved this by two means. Firstly, the "brand" - more aptly named The Cult Of Apple. No need to tell you about that, obviously. Just keep chanting "Apple Good, Everything Else Bad." Secondly, the tried and tested FOAD: Fear Uncertainty And Doubt. In this case, that's backed up by lawyers and a heavy wad of cash dispensed by corporate lobbyists.

So as the grateful Apple customers await the next shipment of goodies, I have this image of an old Apple ad. Lots of grey-clad, dead-eyed people listening to edicts from The Leader. But this time, it isn't Apple throwing the hammer.

LOL, you can't have it both ways. You can't claim that companies should give the customer what they want AND say Apple's success is not that, but some cultish attitude. Apple IS giving the customers what they want. It just turns out that YOU are not the customer Apple is targeting. Apple has decades of topping the customer satisfaction charts with their products. Why? Because the vast majority of their customers are very very happy with their Apple products. It's the edge cases of people who care deeply about things like repairability and such who aren't getting what they want, and complaining vocally on forums like this one about it. But you are kidding yourselves if you think you are anywhere close to the average customer. The average customer doesn't give a flying fart if their phone is more repairable. You know how we know that? Because basically NO major phone company is prioritizing the type of repairability you and others are calling for.

Apple has done exactly what you said, respond to market demand. You just need to realize YOU aren't the market.

 

[boss.king]

Remember the so-called "antenna gate"? Apple got slammed for a behavior that was common in ALL phones and a known limitation of physics.

To be fair, the iPhone 4 experienced the issue far more easily (you could get the signal to drop by bridging the two antennas with a single fingertip) and Apple’s initial response was “you’re holding it wrong”. I think the backlash was at least a little justified.

 

[doublesupercool]

*sniff* gosh, Apple really DO have my wellbeing at heart!

 

[saxofunk]

When I was a Mac Genius over 10 years ago this sort of policy was already rampant. Trying to repair dents and bends in aluminum laptops in order to make them fit back together properly was forbidden because it might hide warranty-voiding damage. Then I worked for an independent shop for a few years after leaving the Genius Bar. That had more freedom to actually help people, but getting parts was nigh on impossible.

I don't have my own independent Apple repair shop today because Apple's designs and lack of OEM part availability means the business couldn't succeed. Turns out gluing everything together makes repairs much more expensive, which in turn drives customers to replace instead of repair.

 

[H2SO4]

It's indeed anecdotal. What's not anecdotal is the secondary market for iPhones. Look at the prices of an iPhone 8 versus a Galaxy S8. Case closed.

You're having a laugh buddy. Anything you buy for an Apple device is overpriced.

 

[Baymowe335]

You're having a laugh buddy. Anything you buy for an Apple device is overpriced.

Given that's in your signature, I'm sure you believe that. That isn't reality though. People value things at whatever price they are willing to pay.