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Your answer is debatable but understandable. You say there is no "right to repair" (yet) and your opinion is that shareholders may do whatever they like because is the market that decides, balances everything etc....

I respect your opinion, really! it is a political view a bit different from mine and I don't want to discuss about it in this space.
What I would like to say is that I really would appreciate Tim Apple ( or whoever of his errand boys) much more if he would have said something similar to your reply instead of ********ting us with that puerile justification about puncturing the batteries!
And again, in which country he said that? in the USA for Christ sake!
I believe in a country where anyone is self risponsible of buying whatever weapon he likes, is just ridicolous as hell to say that nobody is adult enough to change his own phone's battery.

There is no such thing as a Right to Repair > Apple's and their shareholders' private ownership and right to determine the direction of their business.

If Apple does not provide a solution to the consumer's urge to self-repair, the market will create solutions for it or people will walk away, thats how supply and demand works, the very reason Apple exists is to solve a problem and fill a demand.
 
If repairability isn't important to customers, Apple's battery replacement program would not have been as overwhelming as it was. It's one reason Cook attributes to lower than usual phone upgrades.

The battery replacement program proves Apples point that that kind of repair is too dangerous for non-experienced staff to be doing it in the first place. There’s a reason Apple will swap out your phone for a new one when doing a battery replacement, because they will send even slightly questionable phones off site to dedicated repair facilities because an expanded/expanding battery can be so dangerous. Just ask Samsung.

Lets say Apple does what the so called “right to repair” people want (side note: it’s more accurate to call it “right to force Apple to to sell me parts and equipment and let me dictate their business decisions for them”). Now any one can buy repair kits and parts from Apple. And of course, someone, either through inexperience, stupidity, bad luck, or most likely a combination of the three, manages to seriously injure themselves doing a repair they shouldn’t have been doing in the first place. Most of the members of this forum (and the press) will immediately condemn Apple for making such a dangerous product. Doesn’t matter that was the whole reason Apple didn’t want to provide those kits and parts in the first place, most of you will blame Apple anyway.

I miss the days when these forums were mostly people who actually LIKED Apple products and didn’t demand Apple do everything they way THEY wanted and throw in a unicorn while they were at it. The self-entitled expectations of so many users these days is nuts.
 

Please Tim Apple, do not lie anymore!
Just say you want more money and I may buy your product anyway (but onl because I’m ecosystem addicted).
I just finished watching that one, another "Rossmann speaks the truth to Apple" video clip. Its timing makes me wonder if he is actively reading threads like this one on MacRumors. He used to occasionally post to this forum, but perhaps just lurks these days. In this clip he comments on Apple's concerns about independents or DIYers puncturing batteries and the like. Some may object to Rossmann's style of delivery - I don't - but it's hard to argue with the validity of his content. Toward the end of the clip, Rossmann illustrates, crudely using a hammer rather than heat (to soften the glue), how it is such a hassle to remove the glued iPhone battery. This battery was intentionally installed in this fashion to make its removal and replacement difficult.
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I miss the days when these forums were mostly people who actually LIKED Apple products and didn’t demand Apple do everything they way THEY wanted and throw in a unicorn while they were at it. The self-entitled expectations of so many users these days is nuts.
Might that be a trend which has significantly ballooned over the last eight years? There are still plenty of people who like Apple's products, their design decisions, and repair policies - you are apparently one of them. There are an increasing number of people, once admirers of Apple, who have been pushed off that wagon. I am one of those, and the details of why are myriad and not worth repeating. Another interesting trend over the last several years: in the past, most of the negative commentary on this forum came from pro-Apple people denigrating Microsoft, PC manufacturers, and non-Apple phones and tablets; now the most prevalent dissension is "internal", between those happy with Apple's current products, services, and policies, and those who are decidedly unhappy with those same items. Apple directions remain a concern of a lot of disaffected former loyal customers of the company, which is why many - such as myself - still follow this forum. I suppose if/when I finally give up hope on the company of ever again being viable as a source for my computer or mobile processing/communications, I'll stop voicing "self-entitled expectations" and move on.
 
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The battery replacement program proves Apples point that that kind of repair is too dangerous for non-experienced staff to be doing it in the first place. There’s a reason Apple will swap out your phone for a new one when doing a battery replacement, because they will send even slightly questionable phones off site to dedicated repair facilities because an expanded/expanding battery can be so dangerous.

The battery replacement program didn't prove that the task is dangerous in the minds of customers. I imagine most people trust the battery is safe because reports of battery mishaps in Apple phones are rare. If anything, the program proves that most people want someone to do the repair for them. They are are either lazy or afraid they will damage the phone in the process (The latter is more probable than a battery mishap).

The problem with Apple being the sole service and parts provider is that Apple can arbitrarily refuse repairs. It happened to me. I had replaced my battery prior to the battery replacement program. Phone performed like new. Then Apple added a Battery Health feature to iOS after they were caught throttling phones. The Battery Health feature caused my phone to not recognize the aftermarket battery. I was traveling when my phone bricked. I went to an Apple store for a new battery. They refused to touch the phone because it didn't have an OEM battery. I offered to remove the battery for them. Nope. Another policy requires them to collect a part when they replace one—and they must do the swap. I asked if I could buy an OEM battery and insert it myself. Nope. Policy forbids them from selling parts. Their suggestion? I could buy an external battery case from them for $90. This is the backroom reality of your beloved brand.

I wrote Tim Cook about the incident. Didn't get a response like I have in the past. But recently, Apple changed their attitude and will replace non-OEM batteries. I suspect a lot of people have aftermarket batteries in their phones.

Now any one can buy repair kits and parts from Apple. And of course, someone, either through inexperience, stupidity, bad luck, or most likely a combination of the three, manages to seriously injure themselves doing a repair they shouldn’t have been doing in the first place.

That is what waivers are for.

You are misinterpreting the demands of Right to Repair. Advocates want more competition or choices when they need service. When Apple's repair solution is questionable or too expensive, they want the option of a second opinion. If Apple's products require OEM parts to operate, advocates want third parties to have access to those parts.

I miss the days when these forums were mostly people who actually LIKED Apple products and didn’t demand Apple do everything they way THEY wanted and throw in a unicorn while they were at it. The self-entitled expectations of so many users these days is nuts.

Or maybe your expectations and needs are simple.

I miss those days too. I didn't change. Apple's focus and priorities did—as well as its attitudes and integrity. And that occurred as Apple's core customer changed. I used to think it was us veterans who complained most in these forums. Sure, we bemoan Apple's dedication to the iMac form factor, and resent the attention that iOS's frivolities get. Yet, if you look closely, the noise is mostly around iOS products their ancillary services, and it's coming from their devotees.
 
I just finished watching that one, another "Rossmann speaks the truth to Apple" video clip. Its timing makes me wonder if he is actively reading threads like this one on MacRumors. He used to occasionally post to this forum, but perhaps just lurks these days. In this clip he comments on Apple's concerns about independents or DIYers puncturing batteries and the like. Some may object to Rossmann's style of delivery - I don't - but it's hard to argue with the validity of his content.

Ha! You fool! Of course we can argue the validity! All we have to do is yell "YOU JUST DON'T LOVE APPLE!" really loudly. That's all one needs to argue a point. It works perfectly, and it works for any situation! You can test this for yourself: Next time someone points out something like, "Gosh, wouldn't it be nice if people (and insurance companies) were protected from having to pay $750 for a $13.50 pill" just yell really loudly "YOU JUST HATE 'MERICA!" That'll make your point loud and clear and put those damned intellectual elites who try to practice "critical thinking" (witchcraft, witchcraft I tell you!) in their place! Next time someone suggests that maybe people should, shockingly, be allowed to repair products they own, just scream "YOU HATE CAPITALISM YOU SOCIALIST PIG!" and then show your vast intellectual superiority by lecturing poor those fools on how capitalism works! You can find many great examples of that capitalism lecture here on these forums, and they all amount to the same thing, so feel free to just copy and paste.

Now personally, I fully support denying anyone the right to repair anything whatsoever at all on their own, or at any independent repair facility of any kind. It's just too darn dangerous. I mean, what if you bend a paper-clip a bit too much one day, and while bending it back you accidentally stab one end of it it directly into both of your own eyes and ears! My God! You would be deaf and blind! Better you be required to send it directly to the company that manufactured it for a repair!

Seriously, I speak from experience here! One day clear back in 1992 I had a Marker Ski jacket that got a tiny little tear. Silly me, I tried to sew that up on my own. Boy oh boy did I learn my lesson. I should have sent that right to Marker because somehow I got changed into a newt! Thank goodness I got better!
 
The battery replacement program proves Apples point that that kind of repair is too dangerous for non-experienced staff to be doing it in the first place. There’s a reason Apple will swap out your phone for a new one when doing a battery replacement, because they will send even slightly questionable phones off site to dedicated repair facilities because an expanded/expanding battery can be so dangerous. Just ask Samsung.

Lets say Apple does what the so called “right to repair” people want (side note: it’s more accurate to call it “right to force Apple to to sell me parts and equipment and let me dictate their business decisions for them”). Now any one can buy repair kits and parts from Apple. And of course, someone, either through inexperience, stupidity, bad luck, or most likely a combination of the three, manages to seriously injure themselves doing a repair they shouldn’t have been doing in the first place. Most of the members of this forum (and the press) will immediately condemn Apple for making such a dangerous product. Doesn’t matter that was the whole reason Apple didn’t want to provide those kits and parts in the first place, most of you will blame Apple anyway.

I miss the days when these forums were mostly people who actually LIKED Apple products and didn’t demand Apple do everything they way THEY wanted and throw in a unicorn while they were at it. The self-entitled expectations of so many users these days is nuts.
Curious, why does no other company that sells replacement parts to consumers gets condemned when a customer injures themselves trying to do a repair?

Why do you think Apple would get condemned if no other company does?
 
Apple is so full of f ing **** when it comes to right to repair; it's nothing but lie, after lie, after lie. Tim Apple is horrible for the end consumer and horrible for the environment.
Baloney. There is nothing more pedantic, childish, and delusional than "right to repair".

Oh, we don't make these products or have any clue how they're made but we insist on being able to repair! LMAO.
 
Baloney. There is nothing more pedantic, childish, and delusional than "right to repair".

Oh, we don't make these products or have any clue how they're made but we insist on being able to repair! LMAO.

You're dismissing an American tradition. What other property rights are you willing to sacrifice?

You should look at the alternative to Right to Repair. Opponents want the Right to Interfere with Repairs.
 
I understand why Apple does make their products the way they do.

Sometimes it’s about getting the hardware right rather than making it easy to repair.

Well, it isn't hard to understand. It's about the money.

I'd have more respect for your comment about "getting the hardware right" if Apple hadn't forgotten how to make keyboards, and made laptops in which the display connector fails after you ... shock, horror ... open and close it too many times. Is it uncharitable to point out that these problems were solved 20 years ago? Oh - and not forgetting the tablet so thin it comes out of the box bent like a banana.

But Apple insists on insulting the customer for having excessive expectations. Putting functionality and durability over style is so passe. The customer needs to be educated to realise that elegance is a concern that ranks far above whether it'll last you for 2 years. This ecologically responsible company is now selling devices that are intended to be disposable.

If that doesn't convince you, how would you explain the fact that Apple have progressively adopted fasteners for which special tools are required, and turn out to have major components glued solidly in place? Is that about "getting the hardware right" too? Give us a break.
 
Ridiculous. This right to repair law isn't just about consumers being able to repair their own products it's about repair shops that don't want to be affiliated with Apple being able to obtain parts to do repairs on the behalf of consumers.

And I want to also add, I changed the battery in my own MacBook Pro 15" - The kind that is glued in. Really wasn't that difficult, consumers aren't as thick as Apple wishes they were.

The slimmer devices get the harder it is for non-professionals and even independent repair shops to fix these. The potential for further damage and expense is very high. This is a technical issue, so let's not become irrational internet experts with conspiratorial beliefs that the 'big company' is taking away your rights.
 
This is a technical issue, so let's not become irrational internet experts with conspiratorial beliefs that the 'big company' is taking away your rights.
You’re underestimating the experience and equipment many of these third party techs have and overestimating the level of difficulty. They have the same skills as John Smith, Apple repairman at the local Apple store or the authorized repair person.
 
This kind of attitude is exactly why bills like this are important. The right to repair, if passing, will likely push design of technology towards more repairable and sustainable computers. If written correctly, otherwise I am predicting monoblock device, that are essentially throw-away objects. Creating a device that can't be repaired is even more lucrative...
 
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I miss the days when these forums were mostly people who actually LIKED Apple products and didn’t demand Apple do everything they way THEY wanted and throw in a unicorn while they were at it. The self-entitled expectations of so many users these days is nuts.

I have this odd idea that companies are SUPPOSED to respond to market demand. Isn't the first slide in Marketing 101 "Give The Customer What He Wants"? And the second is "If Your Customers Are Telling You You're Selling S**t, Listen." Or if it isn't, it ought to be.

Apple, of course, is different. There isn't much evidence that they listen to anyone outside their own bubble. They just make stuff and tell you to take it or leave it. They think of this as innovation. Marketing innovation, obviously; there hasn't been much of the other kind for decades. And people buy this stuff by the billion.

They have achieved this by two means. Firstly, the "brand" - more aptly named The Cult Of Apple. No need to tell you about that, obviously. Just keep chanting "Apple Good, Everything Else Bad." Secondly, the tried and tested FOAD: Fear Uncertainty And Doubt. In this case, that's backed up by lawyers and a heavy wad of cash dispensed by corporate lobbyists.

So as the grateful Apple customers await the next shipment of goodies, I have this image of an old Apple ad. Lots of grey-clad, dead-eyed people listening to edicts from The Leader. But this time, it isn't Apple throwing the hammer.
 
The slimmer devices get the harder it is for non-professionals and even independent repair shops to fix these. The potential for further damage and expense is very high. This is a technical issue, so let's not become irrational internet experts with conspiratorial beliefs that the 'big company' is taking away your rights.

as if the apple "expert" in the back of the store making minimum wage is any more qualified that a 3rd party technician is laughable. Apple wants to deter right to repair so that they can charge exorbitant repair fees at their stores.
 
What's truly infuriating is that Apple used to do industrial design properly.

I mean, the Macintosh IIcx was so easy to work on that even a CEO could put one together.


(And it ignored my start time. Skip to 3:30 to see JLG put it together.)
 
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I posted plenty of facts. I can see why Apple doesn't want just anyone screwing around in their hardware. Quality of repair is a huge issue.

Apple sees services as their next big thing. Repairing iPhones are part of services. Apple has a strong incentive to be against any law for consumers right to repair, not because of safety reasons but for money reasons.
 
Apple sees services as their next big thing. Repairing iPhones are part of services. Apple has a strong incentive to be against any law for consumers right to repair, not because of safety reasons but for money reasons.
It also doesn't make them wrong. Good repairs on iPhones are just as important as the repair itself.
 
...
I think people should be able to buy the parts, and if a device is consumer repaired the manufacturer is off the hook afterwards.

Who is arguing that the maker/seller of a product should be held liable when a consumer does a bad job repairing? This new proposed law doesn't say that.
 
This is getting ridiculous. People have been repairing and maintaining their own cars for nearly a century. Crawling under a 1- to 2-ton hunk of steel and aluminum and having it come crashing down on you is a lot more dangerous than poking a hole in a LiIon or LiPo battery and having it put on a light and smoke show...
Apple is not saying people shouldn't repair their own phones, Macs, they are fighting against right to repair bill.
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Count me impressed, what type of smartphone did you build? Android I guess. What processor did you use and what display technology?
I am interested too, I would like to build my own custom phone, where is the BOM.
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Haven't gone through all 12 pages of comments and this has probably been said but the cost of going to Apple to do anything is out of control - $600 to upgrade to 32gb of ram on the Mini...$600!! the entire device is only $1000. I can get the same amount of ram from a reputable vendor for under $200 and install it myself the idea of having to pay 3x+ just to have apple do it is absurd.

I Agree with you, but Government shouldn't be controlling what kind of technology is used in product.
People should decide with their wallet to sent the trend.
 
The slimmer devices get the harder it is for non-professionals and even independent repair shops to fix these. The potential for further damage and expense is very high. This is a technical issue, so let's not become irrational internet experts with conspiratorial beliefs that the 'big company' is taking away your rights.
If the new Apple grail is the pursuit of thinness to the point of making products too difficult to be repaired, even by expert technicians, then Apple should issue a warning at the outset that their products are not meant to be tampered with and repaired, but to be replaced when failing. That way, at least you know at the outset that you have purchased and expensive throw-away knick knack, and have no unreasonable expectations of repair, upgade, or battery replacement. Of course, another option might be to back off the form-over-function esthetic and go back to producing reliable, upgradable/fixable products that generally just work.
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Plus, even if one does trust Apple to not abuse this power that we'd be giving them, it's not just about them.

Consumers would be screwed.

Every tech company would copy Apple and say the same thing. Everything piece of tech you'd purchase going forward would end up using some version of 'protecting the consumer or protecting our proprietary hardware/software' spiel.
Yes, I get frustrated with a tendency for companies to copy some of the less than stellar Apple initiatives, from removal of headphone jacks and magsafe connectors, glued in batteries and soldered SSDs, etc. Some "right to repair" guy named Rossmann has something to say about this:

 
This is exactly right. Showing my age a bit - but I’ve lived through the days of the brick handsets (and bag phones for that matter). We don’t need things to go back to fat, heavy, and ugly - just so some 0.00005% of iPhone owners can replace their “insert one of not too many actual upgradable or reparable parts”.

Or any other Apple product for that matter. Or Surface. Or any of them.

If you want to tinker and “repair” yourself, build a PC or Hackintosh in an accessible case. The idea of portable is small, lightweight, and sealed.

And, I am one of those tinkerers. Or, at least I was up until not too many years ago.
Sealed has nothing to do with portability.
 
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