Apple Files Lawsuit Against HTC Over Alleged iPhone Patent Infringement

[ArrowSmith]

If listening to music on Pandora and doing other things at the same time is important to you, you should (and have) bought another device. Congratulations. It isn't important to 99.3% of people (check the number of Pandora users against people who use their own library or stream via the built-in player on the iPhone and Touch). Why so bitter about something that makes sense for most of Apple's target market, and which doesn't affect you because you've found a device you like?

The problem I have is Apple using the courts to eliminate my other choices. It's evil.

 

[*LTD*]

it seems we have different definitions of what a feature is. just because it's not featured "out of the box" by apple, multitasking/backgrounding etc. are still features to me..

A bit O/T, but this reminds me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his deposition.[2] He argued over the definitions of words such as "compete", "concerned", "ask", and "we".[3] BusinessWeek reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the presiding judge had to chuckle.

 

[Cynthia Steffe]

Which firm? What's their track record? This sounds interesting . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkland_and_Ellis

 

[lex750]

In fact, for most people it is insignificant. You are aware, aren't you, that before the checklist mentality really took hold in the mid-1980s almost no camera had an on-board flash, and very few came with one at all?

People want it to be there to check it off the feature list, but people in the consumer camera industry will tell you that they all suck and people only use them on purpose when they absolutely have to. One of the number one questions for automatic cameras is "How do I turn off the flash, it washes out all my pictures."

You should learn about a market before you comment on it. No offense.

So I quess the iPhone is keeping with the "no flash" style of the 80's. I actually love the 80's great music. That does not change the fact that MOST cameras, and phones come with a flash in 2010. If you're pictures are comming out "washed out" then maybe reading the manual will solve the problem. I guess the "idiot proof" iPhone removes the flash, so people don't have to actually figure out how to properly work a phone with camera/flash.

You should really step into 2010, the 80's are far gone. No offence.

 

[kernkraft]

That's a ridiculous definition. I can rm -rf everything on my Mac, so I guess nothing in the OS is a feature. Similarly the iBooks app on iPad is downloadable, not built-in to the firmware, so I guess it's not an iPad feature.

Speaking of features and iBook... For example, Delicious Library is not a feature on my macs but an app. However, one feature of Delicious Library is the traditional-looking bookshelves that Apple is planning to use on the iPad without paying any royalty. As the head of Monster (?) recently said, they saw the keynote and that's when they saw that their product's main feature became the iBooks main feature. It's kind of naughty, considering that they are both based in San Francisco. A cab could have taken Jobs to thank the guys for sharing their idea with the world. I suppose, other companies now may follow, unless Apple actually patented the appearance.

 

[cmaier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkland_and_Ellis

Not who I would have hired, but no one gets fired for hiring Kirkland.

 

[DaveSW]

The problem I have is Apple using the courts to eliminate my other choices. It's evil.

your choices will not be "eliminated" jesus...

 

[*LTD*]

The problem I have is Apple using the courts to eliminate my other choices. It's evil.

You do have other choices. Always will. It's just that there is the possibility that they might become much less attractive after all this is over.

 

[Cynthia Steffe]

Not who I would have hired, but no one gets fired for hiring Kirkland.

Whom would you have hired? Boies? Quinn? Paul Weiss? None of those is particularly IP focused. Maybe MoFo because of their regional presence in CA?

 

[MorphingDragon]

your choices will not be "eliminated" jesus...

Dear God,

Yes My Son

I would like to file a bug report.

- XKCD

 

[surferfromuk]

It feels like Apple is making enemies with everyone recently. Granted it is highly inflated by media releases / opinion. It sounds like Intel, Google, M$, and many small companies are after the great Apple.

Hopefully current alliances can grow, and be maintained.

I don't think this is entirely about iPhone - It's really about that iPad and it's running iPhone OS - it's like the original Macintosh has just been born again. Everybody is laughing at it's 'simplicity' (like they did with Macintosh System 1.0) and yet it created the foundation for 30 years of innovation and technology.

This is what this crop of patents are *REALLY* about. Realistically the iPhone is just another phone hardware wise - and the phone app is just a phone app but the way the human being interacts with it is brand new. We've left the mouse behind - the point-and-click days are in their sunset time. If Apple can't protect the way a hand interfaces with a screen to manipulate information then there is no iPad, no iPhone - no nothing.

As someone said earlier on - this is endgame. If Apple wins then this is like the case they lost against Microsoft for the desktop. If Apple wins those $200 shares will be worth $2000 because there will be no other companies standing 10 years from now. Steve Jobs said it himself the other day 'it's time to think big' - as if $40Billion dollar war-chest and the best OS, phone, music player, computers were only just the beginning!

Really, the iPad has industries scared in a way I've never seen before - they literally have started the death clock ticking for OSX mous-click variant, Windows and Linux hierarchical mouse driven Operating systems.

Apple must own multi-touch interaction - simple as that. They will lose some patents on silly things like GSM chips but they'll win the big ones - the ones that stop all other companies making multi-touch screen devices.

 

[*LTD*]

Not who I would have hired, but no one gets fired for hiring Kirkland.

Hehe . . . I love these little industry-insider jabs.

"So, who's doing your anterior cardial-mylectomy?"

"Dr. Jones over at the Springfield Clinic for Complicated Surgery."

"Jones?? Ha!! He can't even irrigate the side of a barn! I would have told you to go with one of our boys, or even Doctor Johnson. He was in my graduating class at Hopkins . . . now watch this drive!"

 

[Winni]

"We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours."

Said the man who stole so many original ideas himself. Some of the most famous examples:

Xerox Star (including the mouse) -> Macintosh
Whatever other mp3 player/Walkman -> iPod
Slate/Tablet PC -> iPad
SmallTalk -> Objective-C
BSD Unix -> NeXTstep

And most of the stuff in the iPhone has been around since long before the iPhone. Apple added a pen-less touch interface to the mix, but they didn't invent touch interfaces either.

We have a saying in Germany: "Wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen." (Roughly translated: Who sits in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.)

 

[surferfromuk]

The problem I have is Apple using the courts to eliminate my other choices. It's evil.

Apple gave you the choices you have right now. Go read the history of computers. Don't you remember the 1990's?

 

[Lazerlike42]

Yes. Check the App store. There is a free app for that.

There are apps that will brighten the screen to max and show a white screen, but its nowhere near the brightness or the usefulness of turning on the flash-led on other phones (Android and non-Android)

Yes, check the app store.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but if the iPhone has the hardware to detect metal objects its news to me.

Yes. You do realize that there are background processes running on the iPhone OS right? The phone, iPod features run in the background. Apple restricts background tasks for third party apps but the OS can multitask. You can jailbreak and use backgrounder but then your performance and battery life will suffer like it does on your phone.

So out of the box (i.e., for 99% of users), the iPhone cannot multi-task applications. It can, but only by violating TOS. I don't want to do that. Nor do I want to restrict my phone's multitasking to background kernel processes.

If you jailbreak it, you can but most people don't care to clutter up their phone with "widgets". They prefer apps and the apps launch fast on the 3GS without slowing down everything because they don't run all the time like widgets do. Your widgets are sucking up battery even when your phone is locked.

My phone monitors the battery usage of the widgets. Currently, they constitute about 4-7% of my battery usage - and that's including checking my email automatically, which I thought the iPhone did. If not, that's another mark against it for me, as this is important. It's MORE than an acceptable trade-off for the usefulness of the widgets I have. And of course, I must note that I don't notice it running any slower when I have widgets running than when I don't.

 

[aristotle]

No, that is not multitasking. Can you listen to Pandora and check your e-mail? No. That would be multitasking.

And jailbreaking is absolutely not a legit response to these criticisms of the iPhone because each update of the iPhone OS breaks the jailbreak, it is not supported by Apple, and the latest 3GS models can't even be jailbroken.

Things that require jailbreaking on the iPhone can be done out of the box, fully supported by the manufacturer, on other smart phones.

No, I cannot listen to Pandora period because I'm in Canada and their service check the origin of our IP address. Listening to your iPod and checking your mail is multitasking or being on a call and checking your mail. What they don't allow for right now is third-party multitasking but most games do support instant save state when your game is interrupted by a call so you can resume your game after the call.

 

[cmaier]

Whom would you have hired? Boies? Quinn? Paul Weiss? None of those is particularly IP focused. Maybe MoFo because of their regional presence in CA?

Well I assume it would be unbecoming to suggest the firm I work for? If so, then I'd recommend Jones Day (there are specific partners that I would recommend).

 

[hagjohn]

After reading "some" of the patent info and who uses them, Apple is basically going after Google by suing HTC. I would bet Google will help HTC.

Can't believe Apple was able to patent what is basically "sleep mode"... LOL

 

[Cynthia Steffe]

Well I assume it would be unbecoming to suggest the firm I work for? If so, then I'd recommend Jones Day (there are specific partners that I would recommend).

Hahaha. Well I'd love to suggest mine (DPW), but again... we just aren't as IP-focused as Kirkland

Lot's of my classmates went there though. If there's one thing they're known for, it's their tenacity. Can't say I havent been intimidated in the cases we worked with them on.

 

[ArrowSmith]

Apple gave you the choices you have right now. Go read the history of computers. Don't you remember the 1990's?

I owned several ATX-style PCs in the 90s, no problems. Didn't own a single Apple computer until 2008.

 

[surferfromuk]

"We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours."

Said the man who stole so many original ideas himself. Some of the most famous examples:

Xerox Star (including the mouse) -> Macintosh Licensed and paid for from Xerox execs who were going to close the program and didn't see any value in the research
Whatever other mp3 player/Walkman -> iPod tape based players? -next you'll be citing gramophone players!
Slate/Tablet PC -> iPad unique OS - invisible OS - not a desktop OS on a tablet
SmallTalk -> Objective-C - Object orientated stuff again was licensed from Xerox Parc
BSD Unix -> NeXTstep well if that's stolen thenI seriously don't know what isn't in the entire tech industry!

And most of the stuff in the iPhone has been around since long before the iPhone. Apple added a pen-less touch interface to the mix, but they didn't invent touch interfaces either. Like multi-touch dispensing of all buttons wasn't a revolution. Don't you get the 'invisible OS' concept?

We have a saying in Germany: "Wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen." (Roughly translated: Who sits in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.)

Ahem...your glasshouse has a broken window...

 

[*LTD*]

"We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours."

Said the man who stole so many original ideas himself. Some of the most famous examples:

Xerox Star (including the mouse) -> Macintosh
Whatever other mp3 player/Walkman -> iPod
Slate/Tablet PC -> iPad
SmallTalk -> Objective-C
BSD Unix -> NeXTstep

And most of the stuff in the iPhone has been around since long before the iPhone. Apple added a pen-less touch interface to the mix, but they didn't invent touch interfaces either.

We have a saying in Germany: "Wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen." (Roughly translated: Who sits in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.)

Well, you're way off on BSD/Unix. Which calls your other examples into question. There was no theft involved there. In fact, Apple filtered so much code back into BSD that they saved the platform.

Actually, it's because of Apple that FreeBSD got somewhere.

Since OS X's initial release in 2001, Apple's been percolating BSD code in and out of the OS X kernel/userland/libs. The code then makes its way right back in to FreeBSD.

By the time Panther was released, Apple's contributions back to FreeBSD had resulted in a FreeBSD milestone, which was 5.x. OS X 10.3 contained parts of FreeBSD 4.9 and 5.1. The things possible with FreeBSD today wouldn't have been possible without Apple.

For example, the VM/SMP code that OS X uses to run efficiently is the same that put FreeBSD on par with Linux.

Apple ensures a robust FreeBSD. A robust FreeBSD ensures a robust OS X. Apple actually puts back, and they have put back more than enough and continue to do so.

 

[coleridge78]

Three points.

First, the multitasking in Android is in no way obstructive to ease of use or to the interface. This is because it's entirely transparent to the user. A user who understands what's going on can use it to his advantage, while a user who knows nothing about multitasking can use the phone in the same way an iPhone user would and will never notice the difference. "It just works," and it works beautifully.

I would disagree. To the extent that it is easy and unobtrusive, it is precisely the same as notifications on the iPhone OS (in user experience, obviously, not implementation). To the extent that it goes beyond that, it is neither particularly easy, particularly useful, or particularly reliable (there are a plethora of apps now for killing apps that won't go away, so it must be a common problem). Because apps just get backgrounded by default when you leave them, you're relying on every programmer of every third-party app to be competent and responsible. That simply isn't realistic. On a desktop the tradeoff is worth it anyway, but to many (including myself) that isn't true of a phone or other pocket device. It needs to be a lot more reliable with a lot less intervention on my part than a computer that I can sit down at and tinker with.

Second, I wasn't trying to set up a straw man. I actually would agree with you that there are different users with different opinions and that they can conflict, agree, etc. etc. My point was somewhat related to this. Basically, I was just saying that the argument "it's not something most people will use, so it's not important" is not a good one, and as evidence pointing out people making the same argument the other way about a different issue. Sure, there are differences of opinion, but the point is that "not all people will use it so it's not better" is not a good argument against it.

Fair enough, but I disagree again. It is a good argument when argued from sound facts in the proper context. There's been years of research on this aspect of interfaces. Taking away seldom-chosen choices (as long as they aren't truly critical, like, say, "hard reset") is nearly--nearly--always a net positive in terms of user experience and happiness. It meshes well with Apple's overall market strategy of the last 13 years. The reason this line of reasoning fails in the HDMI controversy is because HDMI is so common at this point. MiniDV isn't making anything easier, or better quality--like it used to when the alternative was VGA and using adapters anyway. It isn't a faulty argument, it's just being applied somewhere where it... doesn't apply.

And this leads into my third point: requiring an adaptor in order to use what has become an industry standard interface is a usability issue. As has been pointed out in the other thread, adaptors get lost, the get forgotten, they are an extra cost, they take up extra carrying space, and so on. Of course, I don't think all of these things are a big deal (they take up a few inches of space in a bag - not a big deal In my opinion), but some of themare. If you are trying to give a presentation before a client or a classroom and there is only a VGA or and HDMI port on the projector - as is about 95% likely - and suddenly you find you've lost or forgotten your adaptor - major usability problem!

Yeah. I'm not going to defend adapters. They can be a pain. But it's not the same thing as something that (sometimes) leads to always-present, pervasive problems in the use of the device.

 

[Lazerlike42]

"We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours."

Said the man who stole so many original ideas himself. Some of the most famous examples:

Xerox Star (including the mouse) -> Macintosh
Whatever other mp3 player/Walkman -> iPod
Slate/Tablet PC -> iPad
SmallTalk -> Objective-C
BSD Unix -> NeXTstep

And most of the stuff in the iPhone has been around since long before the iPhone. Apple added a pen-less touch interface to the mix, but they didn't invent touch interfaces either.

We have a saying in Germany: "Wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen." (Roughly translated: Who sits in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.)

Don't forget a mish-mash of different things he took from Microsoft Windows when he returned to Apple. Watch some of his very first WWDC/MacWorld videos on Youtube - especially his introduction of OSX and of MacOS 9 - and you'll see him introducing as "new" a lot of features that Windows had had at various times.

 

[yg17]

Steve Jobs in 1996: "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."

http://gizmodo.com/5483914/steve-jobs-1996-good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal

What an ass.