Apple Fined $2 Million in Brazil for Selling iPhones Without Chargers

[0924487]

Apple‘s net margin is 21.4%. The manufacturing cost of the iPhone 12 is estimated to be about 21% more expensive than that of the iPhone 11. That means that not only did they not pocket the savings, they did not even cover their increased cost, so their net margin decreased.

Also, iPhone 11 was $699, and now iPhone 12 is $799 or $829 if unlocked from Apple. $699 this year only gets you a "mini", but without the "SE" pricing.

When you say, Net Margin, instead of Gross Margin, you are saying money going to investors and stock holders only. That's after all the tax R&D, capx, insurance, benefits, and salary payments have been deducted.

No company should be making that much after all the deductions.

 

[lederermc]

I would wager that is cheaper than actually putting chargers in the boxes. Apple could have given every iPhone buyer a credit equal to a charger that could be used for anything.

 

[960design]

Meh... I've had a 30watt Apple fast charger that takes USB-C since the iPhone X.

I've used a Mophie wireless charger since the X. Cannot remember the last time I've 'plugged in' my device.
I was going to pick up Apple's magsafe duo for travel... but damn... $129!
I'll just stick with a standard magsafe.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Also, iPhone 11 was $699, and now iPhone 12 is $799 or $829 if unlocked from Apple. $699 this year only gets you a "mini", but without the "SE" pricing.

The iPhone 11 had an LCD screen. The iPhone 12 has an OLED screen. They have different costs. Is that hard to understand? If you do not think they are worth it, do not buy them. Really simple.

When you say, Net Margin, instead of Gross Margin, you are saying money going to investors and stock holders only. That's after all the tax R&D, capx, insurance, benefits, and salary payments have been deducted.

That is what the company retains to the benefit of the owners and employee bonuses (in Apple’s case that means lots of people’s 401K’s and stock held by individual investors).

No company should be making that much after all the deductions.

Do you believe that iPhones are necessities? Do people need iPhones to live? This is a premium product at a premium price. If you think the price is too high, do not buy it.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I would wager that is cheaper than actually putting chargers in the boxes. Apple could have given every iPhone buyer a credit equal to a charger that could be used for anything.

Just to be clear what you are saying, you think that the charger costs less than the extra paper, labor to pack it and shipping, and that if the charger arrived at the store in different packaging, they would be saving money giving it to you?

What do you do for a living? I hope you never have to price products or do economic analysis.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I've used a Mophie wireless charger since the X. Cannot remember the last time I've 'plugged in' my device.
I was going to pick up Apple's magsafe duo for travel... but damn... $129!
I'll just stick with a standard magsafe.

I have a TI 99/4A as well! I have the disk drive for it, but I am not sure I can get it to boot any more.

 

[1BadManVan]

In that case you are an android user so you'll likely already have a USB-C charger, then you can use the included USB-C cable.

Well my wife came from a note 8 to a iPhone 12, had to buy her a charger since it was a USB-a charger. Got my stepson his first phone, so he had no charger either. Make all the excuses you guys want for them, I own Apple products and like their products, doesn’t mean this was still a greedy decision on their part

 

[Alan Wynn]

I own Apple products and like their products, doesn’t mean this was still a greedy decision on their part

People keep saying “greedy”. The iPhone 12 Pro is 21% more expensive to make than the iPhone 11 Pro was, and yet Apple is selling it at the same price. They took out a charger that most people do not need to cut some cost, and cut their margin a bit on the product. Would you feel they were less greedy if they had raised the price $20 and continued to include a charger than most people do not need or want?

Given that over 75% of iPhones are purchased at sources other than the Apple Store, it is not even like they get much of the revenue for those people who do buy extra adapters.

 

[31 Flavas]

I would wager that is cheaper than actually putting chargers in the boxes. Apple could have given every iPhone buyer a credit equal to a charger that could be used for anything.

Given the furor and vocal opinions individuals share on Apple's actions - again, as I've shared before, I'm surprised that flagship Android owners haven't "voted with their wallet" to abandon the brands that have dropped the in-box charger and instead support those that do.

I mean, sure -- For better or for worse, at retail, Apple's customers have not rejected the charger-less iPhone 12's. And sure, Samsung (tweets be-damned regarding them "not leaving anything out") and Xaiomi dropped their in-box chargers, as a result.

But, I'm sure other brands would love to court those Android customers who feel disenfranchised by Samsung and Xaiomi.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Given the furor and vocal opinions individuals share on Apple's actions - again, as I've shared before, I'm surprised that flagship Android owners haven't "voted with their wallet" to abandon the brands that have dropped the in-box charger and instead support those that do.

Or maybe the people who actually care about this issue and do not seem to understand basic economics (nothing a company gives you is free if you have to buy something to get it) are a tiny group and you are seeing most of them on here.

I mean, sure -- For better or for worse, at retail, Apple's customers have not rejected the charger-less iPhone 12's. And sure, Samsung (tweets be-damned regarding them "not leaving anything out") and Xaiomi dropped their in-box chargers, as a result.

Other companies kept their headphone jack long after Apple (and later Samsung) dropped it, yet none saw an increase in sales. Same goes for dropping the wired headphones themselves.

But, I'm sure other brands would love to court those Android customers who feel disenfranchised by Samsung and Xaiomi.

That they have not made any meaningful inroads probably indicates that no real people care.

 

[hatchettjack]

Apple just raised prices on their products in Brazil! Apple will be just fine if no one in Brazil has their product!

 

[Philip_S]

I would agree on the water resistance aspect if the iPhone seals didn't degrade over time. At this point, it would be foolish for Apple to warranty water damage.

The advertised capabilities should last the statutory warranty's idea of the phone's lifetime (typically 3+ years). That means designing the seals to last that time with normal wear and tear, or advertising a lower level of water protection.

The other problem with the water protection is that ads released in some areas appear to show use in conditions not covered by the IP rating, which is at best misleading advertising (that's what the Italians are going after apple for).

 

[960design]

I have a TI 99/4A as well! I have the disk drive for it, but I am not sure I can get it to boot any more.

Disk Drive! I fell asleep to the tape drive "music" dreaming of a disk drive. ( I wonder if that was the start of a life long love of trance / industrial music - never connected that before ). The disk drives were so expensive and far beyond my families affordances. Alas, my current computer does not have a disk drive either.

 

[I7guy]

The advertised capabilities should last the statutory warranty's idea of the phone's lifetime (typically 3+ years). That means designing the seals to last that time with normal wear and tear, or advertising a lower level of water protection.

The other problem with the water protection is that ads released in some areas appear to show use in conditions not covered by the IP rating, which is at best misleading advertising (that's what the Italians are going after apple for).

What if you drop the phone and weaken the seals? I can understand why a device that is meant to be taken in most situations is not warrantied for three years +. Also, one of the purposes of advertisments is to communicate information (as oppose to mislead consumers), if Apple advertises the screen is x.x% stronger than last year, does that mean it is unbreakable?

 

[Alan Wynn]

Disk Drive! I fell asleep to the tape drive "music" dreaming of a disk drive. ( I wonder if that was the start of a life long love of trance / industrial music - never connected that before ). The disk drives were so expensive and far beyond my families affordances.

My father was a professor and would never have been able to afford it either, but TI had a special discount program for which we qualified.

Alas, my current computer does not have a disk drive either.

I have a USB floppy that I have connected to my BF’s Mac Pro. I am not sure I have any discs that it can read.

 

[960design]

I have a USB floppy that I have connected to my BF’s Mac Pro. I am not sure I have any discs that it can read.

Haha! Very nice.
My boss was digging around in a dark closet last month and came out with a 10 pack box of 3M 5.25 floppies. He proudly displays them on his desk. Funny, how much tech has changed in such a short time.

 

[emdub]

Just so I understand, where did she go to purchase this device?

Portugal. FNAC store.

Not really usual. Most people do not sell or trade in their phones, of those that do, most do not include the cables.

Never ever sold a used iPhone without cable + charger, and I've sold quite a few.

That's a drag. I am shocked that no sales person mentioned the lack of charger to her, given that they always try to sell those even before this was changed. However, I am curious do you think I should have to pay $20 more to prevent this from happening?

I believe Apple should go on including a way to charge a new purchase. I don't believe you're paying $20 less because Apple removed the charger from the case. The environmental cost just sounds like corporate ********.

Particularly given that I have never seen a clerk in any store sell a phone (from any brand) and not try to sell accessories. Someone should talk to the clerk's manager as they are definitely leaving money on the table (and creating a bad customer experience)!

I find that extremely pushy sales behaviour and would avoid that store in the future. Different cultures I guess.

Why? What other items should they be required to give you if you need it? You understand that if they offer it (even only to those who request it), it means those to do not need it are subsiding those who do, and that it encourages people to ask for it even if they do not need it as "they already paid for it."


Again, why is this ridiculous? You can also use the charger from your MacBook Pro, as well as purchase a new one. Given that you have a new enough MacBook Pro that charges using USB-C, you might want to look at getting a multi-port USB C charger that would let you charge both directly.

Also, to be clear, you have had multiple generations of iPhones and you never purchased a second power adapter or USB-A to Lightning cable? You only had the one of each that you presumably sold with your iPhone? Wow, you are the first person I know for whom that is true.

As I said, this was my mother. She's 80 years old and changes phone every 5 years or so. She kept her original 6+ charger at home with the cable connected and has never purchased an extra charger. She even takes the USB-A cable with her to the car when she thinks she might need to charge it in the car where she has a 12V USB-A charger. She keeps things pristine and she doesn't like buying things she doesn't need. She also ended up purchasing a USB-C car charger too so she can use the original cable that came with the phone. Had the phone come with a USB-A cable and she wouldn't have purchased the car charger. So yes, it is odd that she needs to buy a charger on a brand new iPhone she just purchased. Feels very odd for her and although I can understand the reasons, even though believing some are ********, I tend to agree with her.

Our experiences can be different and we can still both be right! I'm not looking for an argument, just expressing a point of view. We don't have to agree.

 

[cmaier]

Whenever I upgrade my phone, I sell the old one, with the charger it came with.

I don't think I am the only person to do this.

So, whenever I buy a new phone, I need a new charger.

No, I asked everyone, and you are the only one to do this.

 

[Bawstun]

No, I asked everyone, and you are the only one to do this.

No that’s pretty standard practice. Anyone who lists a used iPhone for sale always lists whatever available accessories it originally came with. If you don’t you don’t get as good of a price, I’ve never resold a used iPhone and not included the box or charger. I’ve never seen listings on Craigslist, eBay and others without offering a charger either…not so many that it is the norm anyway.

 

[cmaier]

No that’s pretty standard practice. Anyone who lists a used iPhone for sale always lists whatever available accessories it originally came with. If you don’t you don’t get as good of a price, I’ve never resold a used iPhone and not included the box or charger. I’ve never seen listings on Craigslist, eBay and others without offering a charger either…not so many that it is the norm anyway.

(it was a joke)

 

[carolparanhos]

Brazil, like lots of places wants money from Apple. Pretty much business as usual. In the end perhaps Apple will include chargers in larger packages to hold them. Apple will add $40 US to the price of iPhones in Brazil to cover the costs of the added chargers and bespoke packaging. Brazilians will be thrilled I’m sure!

Im in Brazil and i paied about $2.000,00 in my iPhone 11 with 128 g ios 14. 7.1 and it hasn’t the necessary accessories!!! This was my first concern about Apple. They are in neverland justifying the environment to not include them. Im not sure who they want to show their care about green land. Did you guys recive the essential acessories? Can you tell me how much you paied.. just to compare.

 

[carolparanhos]

If Apple is forced to always include a charger in the box, do you think there will be no impact on the price and/or features of these phones? Purchasers of these devices will end up paying. This way they have several choices: they can use the chargers they have, buy a new one from a third party, or buy one from Apple. I prefer the much faster 29 watt chargers, and I do not want to extra or give up features for something I will never use.

It is like those people who want the airlines to be forced to include a checked bag with every ticket. Most travelers do not check a bag. If airlines are forced to do this, those who check bags are subsidized by those who are not. This is even worse, as those of us who do not want these extra chargers get punished twice: We have to pay extra for (or give up features on) our devices and we have to dispose of these useless chargers.

Did you pay for the acessories?

 

[carolparanhos]

When Apple gets fined, who do you think pays the cost? The money comes from one of four sources:

1. Apple’s customers (they raise prices in the market to make up for it).​
2. Apple’s suppliers (they force lower prices to make up for it).​
3. Apple’s employees (they cut salaries or do not provide raises/bonuses to make up for it).​
4. Apple’s shareholders (cutting dividends or seeing a lower earnings lowering their share price).​

This fine being so small might just come out of the shareholder’s pockets (as it might not be worth Apple’s costs to try to pass it on. However, a larger fine definitely is paid for by the customers in the territory with higher prices.

Territory with higher prices.. shold be here in Brazil,, we paid more the everywhere for tech.. its a lot. And just a few, i mean very few people can afford it. Its so unfair.

 

[SFjohn]

No that’s pretty standard practice. Anyone who lists a used iPhone for sale always lists whatever available accessories it originally came with. If you don’t you don’t get as good of a price, I’ve never resold a used iPhone and not included the box or charger. I’ve never seen listings on Craigslist, eBay and others without offering a charger either…not so many that it is the norm anyway.

I think that HAS been the norm. I expect that to change next year for newer hardware, like the iPhone 12 & on…

 

[0rinoco]

Talking of how rapidly technology has changed, I recall that in the early fifties I worked for Thomas A. Edison as a service technician, and at that time companies were still using the old acoustic Ediphone dictating machines (at least, here in the UK they were). These machines recorded onto a wax cylinder, which, when it was full, was put into a 'shaver' which skimmed the used surface off, making the cylinder re-useable once more. This process was repeated until the cylinder was so thin that it was of no further use. Real 'stone-age' technology. The first of the new electronic machines had just been introduced, and these employed a floppy disk of about six inches in diameter. The disks were not re-useable. Computers, as we know them, were still a good few years away.